Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Socials or WDB.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Socials or WDB.
I do not think as a matter of policy you should ever give negative xp awards. 0 xp is fine, but negative xp just seems a little too adversarial.
WDB?
Anyway, we should level up Noburi's combat skills since he's lagging behind the other.
There must be a disincentive to prevent the word counts of plans to spiral out of control. Otherwise, the QM would need to give out more XP.
- Location
- Yes.
Water Dragon Bullet.
something something it should be Suiton: Suiryudan something something stupid americanization something something screaming in pedantry
Sure, the disincentive is reducing xp. I just think it should bottom out at 0. If the players think a particular scene is so important as to write a highly detailed plan covering a very short stretch of time leaving the xp reward as 0, there's no need to hit them further and actually take away xp.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Have him drain the Fox's chakra, have an eldritch religious experience, then spend it on the Vampiric Dew's equivalent of the Prophet of the Out.
- Location
- Yes.
He should start out by draining a Pangolin of chakra. Maybe he'll get Sage Mode instead
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
*chuckles nervously*
Players: I'm fine with that.
QMs: Near death?
- Location
- Yes.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
I suspect I'd enjoy breaking that down and discussing it after you write the update. I don't want to bias you yet, but I'm proud of how much is packed into that notion.
My real world formulation of the idea also includes 'Aumann's Agreement Theorem', 'tit-for-tat with forgiveness', a bunch of stuff from information theory (esp. ideas on signal to noise ratio and error coding), and the idea that 'Bayesian priors ought to allow for the possibility that you are the other person', but that seems a bit much to ask of Hazou.
At least the veil of ignorance thought experiment, the concept of an iterated prisoner's dilemma, and the tit-for-tat strategy are explainable w/ Hazou's level of sophistication, even if the elemental nations probably doesn't have that exact vocabulary.
I think you might be a bit.
It doesn't stop him from acting unethically, no. He'll still be able to push his weight around and end up benefiting his terminal values. This isn't a magic argument that will make his motives less selfish.
I am trying to provide Orochimaru with a different perspective/framing on the problem of making good decisions. One where the key sticking point is figuring out what definition of 'sufficiently similar' is best for him.
Hazou has relatively little power and goals that benefit significantly from cooperation, hence his optimal definition of 'sufficiently similar' is going to be rather wide and cover lots of agents with similar structure and goals.
Orochimaru on the other hand will probably have a narrower optimal definition of 'sufficiently similar' since the space of agents whom he could usefully cooperate with is smaller. If we're unlucky Oro's definition of 'sufficiently similar' won't include any others who actually exist, but even then it will still cover many possible agents who aren't Orochimaru.
Basically, it's a line of thought that leads from purely selfish motives to actions that approximate altruism for groups that he's capable of cooperating with.
A bunch of other stuff in the plan is there to signal that:
- We're a group he can usefully cooperate with
- We are capable of usefully cooperating with many more actors than he is.
- If he works with us he can derive benefit from not just our capabilities but those of our allies, even those allies he couldn't interface with directly.
Ahh, I think you mistake me. I'm not trying to convince Orochimaru that we're as intelligent or as powerful as he is, just that we think like him. In particular, that we are enough like him that straightforward cooperation is the best tactic, as opposed to manipulation, force, or some other non win-win tactic.
The point is to stop him from seeing us an an enemy/obstacle in the first place or, failing that, make his optimal move be defecting ASAP in an arena with limited stakes. If he's trustworthy then I want to convince him that we're trustworthy too, if he's not trustworthy then I want to find out as soon as possible.
Last edited:
- Location
- Why would this be required?
I would but how do you unvote a plan?
Edit: oof nevermind, voting closed. Sorry Kiba
Last edited:
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
It's too late anyway, but you edit the post to remove the X
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
You can edit the post where you voted to take the "x" out.
You can click on your name in the vote tally under a given plan to take you to the post where you voted/created said plan.
You can get to the vote tally by going to "Thread tools" in the top right--you can do the above without actually posting the tally in thread as well.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I have a projected build for him that's somewhat outdated, but I can go over the details here real quick:
Getting Shadow Clone is high priority (assuming Kabuto okays it), especially since it'll be much faster for Noburi to hit the right CR level. There's a problem in his build, however, where he can't level his CR past 19, which may or may not be enough CR (it's effective CR 30-31 or something). If we wanted to play it safe then we'd want CR 21 but we'd need to re-jigger the pyramid for that.
The fastest way to clear the path for CR 21 would be one level of Intimidation (currently 9) and two levels of Deceit (currently 8) which would pad out the 10's enough to bump CR into the 20's. An alternate strategy would be to level Water Dragon Bullet from 25 to 30, which even halfcost is still more expensive than three levels of sub-10 socials but likely resonates better with Noburi because he wants to get good at WDB.
If Kabuto tells us that SC is non-viable for Noburi then we move on to the next part of Noburi's build: medical skills. They're currently in an awkward position in the 10's supporting the rest of the build but with some effort they can be brought up through the AB tiers. Whatever the tier situation, however, it's in our interests to cap them out at 19.
So overall my advice is to wait until we get Kabuto's decision, maybe investing some XP in CR anyways just to pump up his CR storage for more general purposes, and depending on whether SC is viable or not level CR/Deceit/Intimidation or MedNin/MedKnow.
At least up until I started voting (which I'm fairly certain was pre XF2), you need to have voted once ever to see the vote tally option. Uncertain if that changed, and also kinda irrelevant in this case
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
You can always see and use the vote tally option in Thread Tools, I'm fairly sure.At least up until I started voting (which I'm fairly certain was pre XF2), you need to have voted once ever to see the vote tally option. Uncertain if that changed, and also kinda irrelevant in this case
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
- Location
- Yes.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Do you reckon we can use Updateless Decision Theory and its fascinating multiversal implications as a nerd-nuke against the Five? It'd sure be nifty if the Tama were too busy rewriting their entire long-term meta-strategies to wage war.
- Location
- Yes.
Don't forget Mina seeking revenge!
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
I think we need to add some real estate actions to our plan cache, hit 'Informative' if you agree: (The cache requires some thread consensus)
I'd be leaning towards buying the compound near the forest of mild inconvenience. We'd need to explicitly partition the space so that some KEI ninja could live there, since it required a heavy ninja presence to be viable.
Also, we should (in the longer term) consider buying out the compound next to the Hyuuga. Converting it into an industrial zone will be rather a lot of fun.
As for the last one, if the vendor has any legal liability for selling us Orochimaru's compound then that gives us a way to pressure them. Even if I wouldn't try to recoup our losses in full from them, they may very have another property lying around that we could convince them to give us.
- Check sale status and price for the two other potential clan compounds we were considering buying.
- See if any new properties of sufficient size are on the market.
- Find temporary storage and housing.
- Get an itemized list of payments on our old compound and improvements we have performed.
- Check to see if there's any liability on the person who sold us the compound. In particular, if Orochimaru owned it then the vendor was probably illegally selling us a property they didn't own.
I'd be leaning towards buying the compound near the forest of mild inconvenience. We'd need to explicitly partition the space so that some KEI ninja could live there, since it required a heavy ninja presence to be viable.
Also, we should (in the longer term) consider buying out the compound next to the Hyuuga. Converting it into an industrial zone will be rather a lot of fun.
As for the last one, if the vendor has any legal liability for selling us Orochimaru's compound then that gives us a way to pressure them. Even if I wouldn't try to recoup our losses in full from them, they may very have another property lying around that we could convince them to give us.
Last edited:
I think we need to add some real estate actions to our plan cache, hit 'Informative' if you agree: (The cache requires some thread consensus)
Most of these we can delegate to KEI ninja or civilians, and we'll still have a solid core who can help with the actual moving.
- Check sale status and price for the two other potential clan compounds we were considering buying.
- See if any new properties of sufficient size are on the market.
- Find temporary storage and housing.
- Get an itemized list of payments on our old compound and improvements we have performed.
- Check to see if there's any liability on the person who sold us the compound. In particular, if Orochimaru owned it then the vendor was probably illegally selling us a property they didn't own.
I'd be leaning towards buying the compound near the forest of mild inconvenience. We'd need to explicitly partition the space so that some KEI ninja could live there, since it required a heavy ninja presence to be viable.
Also, we should (in the longer term) consider buying out the compound next to the Hyuuga. Converting it into an industrial zone will be rather a lot of fun.
As for the last one, if the vendor has any legal liability for selling us Orochimaru's compound then that gives us a way to pressure them. Even if I wouldn't try to recoup our losses in full from them, they may very have another property lying around that we could convince them to give us.
It's probably the tower itself that sold the house to us.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
Hazo: Howdy Neighborino!
Hiashi: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
- Location
- Yes.
OTOH, going next to the Hyuga means that whatever Iwa-nin show up will also be attacking us, due to the proximity.