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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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I must admit some measure of relief that we will (presumably) not be continuing along that route.
As stated, I had (and have) a number of moral and ethical reservations about this deal. There's only so far I can stretch those for the sake of a thought experiment over an extended period, and I would have disliked having to drop the quest after such a long time following it.

I was quite worried (given the type of objections from others [i.e. Not Hazo or Mari] in universe did not cover the ethical quandry) that this route was unavoidable and I probably would have just unwatched immediately if at least the veto change didn't go through.

That said I did very little to avert said outcome (other than putting forward said veto) and I thank those that did put in the elbow grease; The quest potentially still lives thanks to your efforts.
 
I can't figure out how to get the tally to work from mobile with Xenforo 2 - but I'm wondering if the last vote would have different results if the now temporarily banned and infracted voters hadn't been able to vote at the time...

There's a premise called unjust enrichment that people shouldn't benefit from their misdeeds, and if we view the above modpost as a declaration of misdeeds then perhaps we should be requesting that the results be changed accordingly.

That being said, I can't tell if the results would have been different since I couldn't get the tally to, well, tally.
 
Hoping I didn't screw up the tally. I disagree with your premise, but the leading vote was ahead by exactly 8 votes, not all of the infracted voted, so it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
Ipsos Custodes said:
I can't figure out how to get the tally to work from mobile with Xenforo 2 - but I'm wondering if the last vote would have different results if the now temporarily banned and infracted voters hadn't been able to vote at the time...

There's a premise called unjust enrichment that people shouldn't benefit from their misdeeds, and if we view the above modpost as a declaration of misdeeds then perhaps we should be requesting that the results be changed accordingly.

That being said, I can't tell if the results would have been different since I couldn't get the tally to, well, tally.
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I strongly object to the idea that the mod action should, in fact, change the outcome of the vote. Note that the specific action they were advocating Hazo take has not, in fact, been ruled misconduct by the mods.
 
-and sociopaths remain the only acceptably persecutable minority.

The site authorities have made it clear that anything written on it has to, at the end of the day, boil down to a morally affirmiming children's tale about puppies and kittens. That is fundamentally incompatable with a neutral simulationist, or even just intellectually rigorous approach to narrative. It's time to talk about alternative platforms.

Suggestions?



Ipsos Custodes said:
I can't figure out how to get the tally to work from mobile with Xenforo 2 - but I'm wondering if the last vote would have different results if the now temporarily banned and infracted voters hadn't been able to vote at the time...

There's a premise called unjust enrichment that people shouldn't benefit from their misdeeds, and if we view the above modpost as a declaration of misdeeds then perhaps we should be requesting that the results be changed accordingly.

That being said, I can't tell if the results would have been different since I couldn't get the tally to, well, tally.
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This would have merit if the standards and judgement of the authorities were sound. They are not.
 
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Lailoken said:
-and sociopaths remain the only acceptably persecutable minority.

The site authorities have made it clear that anything written on it has to, at the end of the day, boil down to puppies and kittens. That is fundamentally incompatable with a neutral simulationist approach to narrative. It's time to talk about alternative platforms.

Suggestions?





This would have merit if the judgement and standards of the authorities were correct. They are not.
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I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. However, in the interests of keeping this thread open, I do suggest we follow the staff post and take any discussion to the forum-designated thread or otherwise off this thread.
 
Lailoken said:
-and sociopaths remain the only acceptably persecutable minority.

The site authorities have made it clear that anything written on it has to, at the end of the day, boil down to puppies and kittens. That is fundamentally incompatable with a neutral simulationist, or even just intellectually rigorous approach to narrative. It's time to talk about alternative platforms.

Suggestions?





This would have merit if the standards and judgement of the authorities were sound. They are not.
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Feel free to make a post to discuss that, and do include a link to it here, but actually discussing it here will cause problems. Believe me, we've gone over that point a lot on the discord channel.

Better yet don't discuss it at all on a platform that they have ultimate control over.
 
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traverseda said:
Hoping I didn't screw up the tally. I disagree with your premise, but the leading vote was ahead by exactly 8 votes, not all of the infracted voted, so it wouldn't have made a difference.
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firestorm440 said:
I strongly object to the idea that the mod action should, in fact, change the outcome of the vote. Note that the specific action they were advocating Hazo take has not, in fact, been ruled misconduct by the mods.
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It's a moot point anyway, but seemed worth mentioning conceptually.
 
If I may ask, could I get a link for the discord? One of the most irritating things about the threadlock was that it eliminated the communication channel I would normally look at to see what was going on.
 
Please note that many of the sufficient-velocity staff members involved in this are lurking the discord.
 
Lailoken said:
The site authorities have made it clear that anything written on it has to, at the end of the day, boil down to a morally affirmiming children's tale about puppies and kittens. That is fundamentally incompatable with a neutral simulationist, or even just intellectually rigorous approach to narrative. It's time to talk about alternative platforms.
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I find it kind of gross that you're treating this like persecution when it's already been noted by the quest writers that this was supposed to be a moral dilemma about balancing realpolitik needs with basic moral imperatives, and mod intervention only happened because a bunch of people decided to instead go all-in on treating the situation like a really fucked-up game of The Sims.

And, hell, even from a purely sociopathic 'rationalist' perspective there are obvious reasons not to treat people like cattle, starting with 'that's how you get stabbed in your sleep by an unhappy parent or child'.
 
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firestorm440 said:
I strongly object to the idea that the mod action should, in fact, change the outcome of the vote. Note that the specific action they were advocating Hazo take has not, in fact, been ruled misconduct by the mods.
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Unless @Velorien and/or @OliWhail talk me out of it, I'm killing the Uchiha deal. I'll figure out some figleaf to pretend that the outcome is still simulationist, but the real answer is that I don't want the mods descending on us again, with the fire of threadlock in one hand and the sword of week-long tempban in the other.

I would also like to ask that, at least for the next few weeks, everyone be very careful about avoiding any language that could be considered dehumanizing towards the characters in the story. The mods had a long chat with us about how we had not properly moderated our own community and made it clear that such is expected in the future.

And before anyone calls me out: Yep, simulationism in MfD is a very high-priority value for me and I'm caving on it. It is currently in conflict with the higher-priority value of "MfD existing".

Final point on this topic: Please, do not discuss this mod action here. Take it to the Discord, or to /r/rational, or literally anywhere else. Objecting to staff actions here in the thread could get you infracted or (temp)?banned. Note that the mods are currently hanging out in the Discord channel, so be careful of your words there. They have stated that they will not act against an SV user based on comments/actions made not on SV, but they're only human and it wouldn't surprise me if strident criticism tilted their feelings about the criticizer in the future, causing questionable cases to be ruled against you. Again, this is not an accusation against them, merely a statement that such would be a normal human reaction.

Lailoken said:
It's time to talk about alternative platforms.

Suggestions?
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I am not commenting one way or the other on if I feel that's warranted or wise or desirable, but I will say that it's not straightforward. I absolutely refuse to go back to SB; as difficult as this mod action has been, the SV mods still rule with a lighter hand than the ones over there do. (Also, the SB themes look like crap, their ratings are limited to 'Like', and my contact with the SB community has been universally negative.) I have no particular opinion on QQ, but I have received multiple requests that we not go there. Posting chapters on AO3 and discussing them on Reddit is an option, but not a great one. In short, SV is the best platform that I'm currently aware of.
 
Pharos said:
Thank goodness this quest is a simulation! If it was a narrative, I'm not sure what would have happened.
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I don't know what you mean by this?
eaglejarl said:
Posting chapters on AO3 and discussing them on Reddit is an option, but not a great one. In short, SV is the best platform that I'm currently aware of.
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How much work would it take for you to also post it on AO3/Reddit in addition to here? Or Royal Road for that matter? That way you could expand your audience.
 
All right, everyone out of the SV. We'll work something out.

Everyone okay with the name "outsidecontext.solutions"? Let me know if we want ownership transferred to someone.

Xenforo is expensive, and I'd like to avoid it if possible.
 
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