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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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So, to set the stage for the context of the plan:
eaglejarl said:
Only when that was done did Kei step onto the grass herself. She paced up to the judges' platform and stopped, ignoring the sobbing boy a few yards to her left.

"I mentioned that I had had a difficult few days," she said calmly. She allowed her gaze to wander slowly across the line of Mist ninja in the stands. "The next time a Gōketsu says that to you, remember this moment. Remember it, and consider if opposing us is something you truly wish to do."
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This is the end of the update covering Keiko's Finals match. Keiko is at the judge's platform and has just finished her ending remarks. We are likely in the stands a little ways removed from the arena.

Situation 1: Keiko attempts to leave for the Seventh Path immediately. It would be dramatic, Keiko simply vanishing without a trace, and it's our worst case scenario because to stop it we would have to sprint over to her immediately and stop her from carrying it out. Undoubtedly causes a scene, but it's not impossible that we could find a way to spin it.

Situation 2: Keiko attempts to leave the arena into Mist somewhere (Goketsu quarters or otherwise) before departing this plane of existence. Much better situation because we have good justification to cut her off and congratulate her, which we can then use to say whatever it is we need to say in order to get Keiko somewhere where we can properly talk to her.

Situation 3: Keiko seeks us out. Probably because of the message we had Pandaa deliver, easiest case scenario to get her somewhere we can talk.

All told, the first half of our plan should be making sure we handle these three situations as best as we can. Then we can transition to the second half of the plan with what we actually want to say to her.
 
Wonder if shadow clones could auto-dispel themselves if in danger as in canon, that would be really useful for avoiding capture scenarios.
 
faflec said:
Wonder if shadow clones could auto-dispel themselves if in danger as in canon, that would be really useful for avoiding capture scenarios.
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I would assume so considering they're sentient and should be capable of jutsu with the chakra they have in them. Then again it might work completely differently in quest, the details we know about Shadow Clone jutsu is already way different from how it works in canon.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
So, to set the stage for the context of the plan:

This is the end of the update covering Keiko's Finals match. Keiko is at the judge's platform and has just finished her ending remarks. We are likely in the stands a little ways removed from the arena.

Situation 1: Keiko attempts to leave for the Seventh Path immediately. It would be dramatic, Keiko simply vanishing without a trace, and it's our worst case scenario because to stop it we would have to sprint over to her immediately and stop her from carrying it out. Undoubtedly causes a scene, but it's not impossible that we could find a way to spin it.

Situation 2: Keiko attempts to leave the arena into Mist somewhere (Goketsu quarters or otherwise) before departing this plane of existence. Much better situation because we have good justification to cut her off and congratulate her, which we can then use to say whatever it is we need to say in order to get Keiko somewhere where we can properly talk to her.

Situation 3: Keiko seeks us out. Probably because of the message we had Pandaa deliver, easiest case scenario to get her somewhere we can talk.

All told, the first half of our plan should be making sure we handle these three situations as best as we can. Then we can transition to the second half of the plan with what we actually want to say to her.
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I believe Velorien's update stated "Keiko was about to leave the arena." presumably on foot?
 
Velorien said:
As a comment to the hivemind in general, please keep in mind that the person-persona divide isn't absolute. Sometimes, an injudiciously-phrased comment about one can come across as referring to the other, especially if it can be taken negatively. (e.g. "Velorien is evil and we fear his updates." Being deeply evil, I take it as a compliment, but occasionally it worries me that players might actually want me to post fewer updates so as to avoid things going wrong.)
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As much as your presence in the threadmarks fills me with mortal terror, I'm almost certain I wouldn't actually want you to lower your participation rate.

Almost.
 
Cariyaga said:
Um. Let's not assume that Naruto can break out of an arbitrarily-specialized genjutsu. Because he evidentially can't.
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  1. Sharingan breaks rules yo.
  2. The best understanding that I have of those events is that Itachi subjected the Naruto clone to days of torture and then popped it, causing every other clone to suffer subjective days of torture and fall apart, causing Naruto prime to experience who knows how long of subjective torture.
Basically, I don't think Naruto is weak to genjutsu if it's something like regular felt-like-I-was-set-on-fire sort of stuff, since that wouldn't cause every other shadow clone to immediately fall apart and cascade the effect downwards to Naruto prime. There's still some risk that some hostile ninja out there has infiltrated Leaf and is capable of using a genjutsu on a Naruto shadow clone that manages to achieve that cascade, but I highly doubt it.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I don't think Naruto is weak to genjutsu if it's something like regular felt-like-I-was-set-on-fire sort of stuff
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I feel like most genjutsu wouldn't fit in this category.

If I'm playing a dickish illusionist, I'm going to go for the realllly subtle clever stuff. "The kunai my friend threw can be dodged if you duck your head slightly -- Just kidding!" or the "Enjoy your illusory opponents." type stuff that Gomi did.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
  1. Sharingan breaks rules yo.
  2. The best understanding that I have of those events is that Itachi subjected the Naruto clone to days of torture and then popped it, causing every other clone to suffer subjective days of torture and fall apart, causing Naruto prime to experience who knows how long of subjective torture.
Basically, I don't think Naruto is weak to genjutsu if it's something like regular felt-like-I-was-set-on-fire sort of stuff, since that wouldn't cause every other shadow clone to immediately fall apart and cascade the effect downwards to Naruto prime. There's still some risk that some hostile ninja out there has infiltrated Leaf and is capable of using a genjutsu on a Naruto shadow clone that manages to achieve that cascade, but I highly doubt it.
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Let me be clear: I believe that genjutsu is a weakness of the shadow clone technique in general; anything capable of making one clone pop itself will make all clones pop themselves and cause enormous damage to Naruto's psyche.
MMKII said:
I feel like most genjutsu wouldn't fit in this category.

If I'm playing a dickish illusionist, I'm going to go for the realllly subtle clever stuff. "The kunai my friend threw can be dodged if you duck your head slightly -- Just kidding!" or the "Enjoy your illusory opponents." type stuff that Gomi did.
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In general, yes, absolutely. And the fact that Shadow Clone is a supersecret Leaf technique is a thing that mitigates this as a problem -- though it also makes it even more of a problem in other ways.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
To be perfectly honest, I do try to keep in mind which QM is writing which update... but it's mainly because we know what you and eaglejarl like writing and if we can arrange for you to write the high-intensity social scenes and eaglejarl to write the high-intensity combat scenes then everyone will be happier for it.

In this case, I'm keeping a minor thread in the back of my head about when the second Ami meeting is going to be written, since I know you liked writing the first one and will probably appreciate the second one falling on your update slot. Right now that thread's pretty happy because the way things look right now is we'll have a chapter talking to Keiko on Sunday and then everything lines up for you to write the second Ami meeting.
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You get all the lurv for that first paragraph. For the second, I note that voting the Ami date in for a @Velorien update makes a lot of sense, because if it lands on my plate then you'll just get an Interlude. I'm not touching that scene with a ten foot pole -- there's no way I could do it justice.


MMKII said:
Honoka is like eight
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Six, actually. She's a first year student.
 
MMKII said:
I feel like most genjutsu wouldn't fit in this category.

If I'm playing a dickish illusionist, I'm going to go for the realllly subtle clever stuff. "The kunai my friend threw can be dodged if you duck your head slightly -- Just kidding!" or the "Enjoy your illusory opponents." type stuff that Gomi did.
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And that just supports my point even more. Effects like that have pretty much zero chance of causing any negative effect on the greater Naruto collective, and those are the vast majority of genjutsu effects. It'd be rare to find someone with a good set-on-fire type genjutsu in the first place, and even if they got it off on Naruto I still doubt it would be able to cause a cascade effect.

Basically, I just think that it'd take something Sharingan-tier of a genjutsu in order to achieve the effect Cariyaga just described.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
  1. Sharingan breaks rules yo.
  2. The best understanding that I have of those events is that Itachi subjected the Naruto clone to days of torture and then popped it, causing every other clone to suffer subjective days of torture and fall apart, causing Naruto prime to experience who knows how long of subjective torture.
Basically, I don't think Naruto is weak to genjutsu if it's something like regular felt-like-I-was-set-on-fire sort of stuff, since that wouldn't cause every other shadow clone to immediately fall apart and cascade the effect downwards to Naruto prime. There's still some risk that some hostile ninja out there has infiltrated Leaf and is capable of using a genjutsu on a Naruto shadow clone that manages to achieve that cascade, but I highly doubt it.
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Speaking of Sharingan I was reading up a bit more on Iron Nerve from the Players known jutsu page and this is an interesting tidbit I found.

"Iron Nerve Bearers are instinctively aware of this fact, although they do not know the probability"

"People with currently-running Sharingan who see an Iron Nerve user will recognize the potential for Sharingan offspring"

At first I thought that was going to be an issue, then I realized there's a very good chance there has to have been at least one instance in the past century where an Uchiha has seen a Kurosawa and the whole clan knows about the secret Sharingan babies in Mist. Now I'm just wondering if they do know, and if they do what they're planning with a "lost cousin" in town and part of another clan.
 
Cariyaga said:
Whoa. [Honoka is] smart for a six year old.
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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
nah, she's just appropriately challenged
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Cariyaga said:
I live with a six year old and an eight year old. They have less of an attention span than my cats do. :p
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MMKII said:
Are they sufficiently incentivized to pay attention to things?
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I think kids in America -- and probably the West in general -- grow up a lot more slowly than they could. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it's a thing.

For the most part, American kids are not given any responsibilities and most of them spend most of their time in a public school system that is designed to educate mass numbers of kids, meaning that it needs to use standardized materials and can't provide individually-tailored teaching. The classes therefore move at the wrong pace for pretty much everyone -- too slow for some, too fast for others -- and the material is going to be uninteresting to most. This is before we even get into discussions of "teaching to the test", inappropriate subject matter, etc.

If you treat a kid like an adult, they will (IME) usually act like one to the extent that they are physically and cognitively capable of it. Also, effort matters far more than talent; when I was teaching, the student who wrecked the curve was by no means the smartest in the class but she was absolutely the hardest working.

Honoka and her peers are getting treated as adults. They are also students at an extremely selective military school, being offered the chance to enter the highest-status and probably highest-paid role in society. They are under military discipline, so there are clear rules of behavior and clear standards for success. Class sizes are very small and the country is strongly motivated to get as many ninja as they can, so it's possible to get a fair amount of individual attention. Add to that the fact that some of what they are learning will let them fundamentally reshape reality in ways that real-world kids literally dream about. (Granted, that's not the stuff that Honoka is officially doing; firsties mostly do academics, physical conditioning, meditation, military codes and behaviors, etc. Kagome has taken her out of that track, and she knows that if she works hard and learns the boring math stuff then he'll teach her how to blow stuff up and cheat and make stuff appear and disappear and generally be awesome.)
 
eaglejarl said:
I think kids in America -- and probably the West in general -- grow up a lot more slowly than they could. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but I do think it's a thing.

For the most part, American kids are not given any responsibilities and most of them spend most of their time in a public school system that is designed to educate mass numbers of kids, meaning that it needs to use standardized materials and can't provide individually-tailored teaching. The classes therefore move at the wrong pace for pretty much everyone -- too slow for some, too fast for others -- and the material is going to be uninteresting to most. This is before we even get into discussions of "teaching to the test", inappropriate subject matter, etc.

If you treat a kid like an adult, they will (IME) usually act like one to the extent that they are physically and cognitively capable of it. Also, effort matters far more than talent; when I was teaching, the student who wrecked the curve was by no means the smartest in the class but she was absolutely the hardest working.
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Your opinions generally coincide with my own on the matter, likewise with experiences to a degree.

Cariyaga said:
...Wait, the curse is broken, we have to plan again. :o
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OH FUCK
 
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