Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- UK
Watsonian: Because he died.Why though
Doylist: What sort of parody of this thread's ambitions implemented by a more-than-slightly incompetent team would be complete without a little botched immortality?
Doyolist²: Keiko was a much better fit for the straight-man role (uhhhh....), if I felt it was needed, and she would actually let the plot progress. Kagome wouldn't settle down, so I murdered him.
- Location
- [REDACTED]
RE: Chakra water transport through the 7th Path.
IIRC chakra from chakra water fades at an accelerated rate when far enough away from a Wakahisa. This rate might increase as the distance between the chakra water and the Wakahisa also increases. If it does, then the rate at which the chakra from the water dissipates when taken to an entirely different realm of existence could easily approach infinity. Would be worth testing though.
IIRC chakra from chakra water fades at an accelerated rate when far enough away from a Wakahisa. This rate might increase as the distance between the chakra water and the Wakahisa also increases. If it does, then the rate at which the chakra from the water dissipates when taken to an entirely different realm of existence could easily approach infinity. Would be worth testing though.
- Location
- UK
We have rulings on this, and I don't think they all agree. But one thing that was fairly constant is that objects hold chakra for nontrivial periods of time completely of their own accord. Whether this is minutes or hours is something you'll have to double-check; I suspect the newer rulings are on the low-end.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Speaking of initiative, am I right in thinking that against a fellow taijutsu specialist, the optimal thing to do is not actually attack them? Instead just keep using our actions to put up more buffs until the enemy attacks us (or we run out of buffs to put up), and then let our counterattack crush them? Whoever attacks first is missing out on whatever buff they could have put up using that action, and counterattacks mean that you don't actually have to attack in order to do damage.
This means that:
1. If the opponent doesn't catch on, and attacks us, we have a slight advantage against them (likely we could add an aspect bonus or something with our action somehow. If we don't currently have any actions that can do that, we could potentially get a jutsu for it over the break).
2. If the opponent catches on, they might try to imitate us. This means that whoever has more buffs to put on wins, unless someone runs out of chakra first. We have a lot more buffs, although running out of chakra is a very real concern for us.
I think this applies to Noburi too, assuming that Water Whip is capable of doing counterattacks.
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- Location
- US
If that is optimal, we expect our opponent to do so as well. Therefore it is only optimal if we put up buffs that are better, action-cost wise, than what we expect our opponent is capable of. Attacking before they have an opportunity to bring their own buffs to bear locks in our relative advantage.
Pantokrator's Hammer is great - supplemental for up to two bonuses.
Getting an attack off with Pantokrator's Hammer running on first initiative (maybe needing the second supplemental for 1-zone movement) ensures that you have a 2 bonus advantage going in.
If you don't need the 1-zone movement, then another supplemental action bonus would be really handy.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Eh, I'm pretty sure that the pros from landing a Consequence dealing attack before your opponent does simply outweigh the marginal benefits of setting up such a gambit. Especially if you believe that you are roughly equal across the board. PH is a supplemental jutsu so it doesn't matter.
In general:
Be very wary of playing this game. Anticipating what your enemy will actually do is almost impossible.
Consider Kakashi's First and Second Rules:
Even this is not pessimistic enough, in my opinion.At best, you should prepare to do the (obvious) attack on level one and only prepare a counter for their level one move on level two, if you have reason to believe that they will be able to land their level one gambit (perhaps they are very quick) or do both if you are good enough that you can do both simultaneously (I believe Hazou is, Iron Nerve Bullshit).Kakashi's Second Rule from The Will to Become Stronger said:
(Any further "I think they think that I will think to do ..." stuff only works if you have an extremely accurate mental model of the opponent, and an extremely accurate mental model of their mental model of you. )
What does this really do for us? Do we need 50 variations of the party trick seal?
- Location
- Potato land
All the other basic principles of good planning apply to tournament fights just as well. For example, if we think we can win by straightforward punching, we should. Instead of elaborate gambits, just get in the opponent's face and hit them. Force them to have an answer to a 60+ Taijutsu roll, or lose.
We'd need to have very good reasons to diverge from the "Get in range and punch" strategy, I think.
- Location
- floating away
Not speaking on how valuable it is, it does, in order of most to least useful:
1) Lowers the TN for related seals. (light seal makes flashbang seal easier, ect.)
2) Maybe some of them are more useful than expected if used in a creative way, or combat useful if modified very slightly.
3) Shows us additional feasible sealing mechanisms/ sealing tech trees that already exist.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Pretty much.
I'll note that the mechanics of "Get in range of punch" is actually what we have to worry about. If we are fighting an AOE jutsu user (or Pikachu, for example) then we might want to consider out-of-the-box ways to get into melee distance (HLaM +LR underneath to pop up and great them with a PH powered uppercut, for example).
When facing a taijutsu user, we simply close in and great them with a fully buffed punch to the face, which they will lose because Pantakrators Hammer and aspect bonuses.
- Location
- Potato land
Also a problem if we need to fight Keiko, as her Ranged Weapons beats our Athletics, and she gets the first hit in even if we win initiative. HLaM is one option, a smokebomb is another. The other problem with Keiko (which makes her heavily favoured to win the whole thing, to be honest) is that if we don't close fast enough, she summons Pankurashun and gains a massive advantage.
Keiko is so overpowered.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Thats fair.
As pointed out by Keiko, Shin, Jiraiya, etc:
If we win the tournament through Pangolins or Seals, it does far less for us politically than winning through alternative strategies.
Previously, you have brought up that you think a mix of the Neji situation and the trade deals and us owning Event 5 were good enough to put this issue to rest. I posit that this is certainly not the case especially given the recent chapter where Jiraiya explicitly outlines that us wrecking house in the finals would more or less give him an ironclad advantage over Hiashi taking account the trade deals and whatnot.
We should try very hard to win without egregious seal usage and without pangolins. I believe this to be within our capabilities. We can always pull out the bag of tricks if it looks like we are in danger of losing.
Edit: This also doesn't preclude MadScientist's idea of public show of third party sealmaster verifying all the seals we use are in fact of our own design.
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- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Terrible idea. Our time is better spent researching the seals that are actually useful that we've had for ages. After that we can do the beginner book
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
So, we've had the Hidden Mountain seals for Jashin knows how long now, and we've never had time to really work on them for various reasons, a key one being QM spoons for figuring out dozens of novel seals on top of whatever else that update had planned.
Previously I've heard people suggest we just hand the seals to Jiraiya and see if he or sealmasters in his employ can tell us what's in them. This mitigates the 'IC actual time' problem, but it can also mitigate the spoon issue. If we assume that there are only X worthwhile seals in there, where the QMs decide X based on their feelings about Hidden Mountain's sealing traditions et al., then they can have Jiraiya say 'we found these seals that you might find interesting, and the rest are all copies of stuff we already have or otherwise worthless'.
Further, giving the seals to Jiraiya means that results could take a while to come back, so the QMs would have ample time to figure out what those couple useful seals are.
Previously I've heard people suggest we just hand the seals to Jiraiya and see if he or sealmasters in his employ can tell us what's in them. This mitigates the 'IC actual time' problem, but it can also mitigate the spoon issue. If we assume that there are only X worthwhile seals in there, where the QMs decide X based on their feelings about Hidden Mountain's sealing traditions et al., then they can have Jiraiya say 'we found these seals that you might find interesting, and the rest are all copies of stuff we already have or otherwise worthless'.
Further, giving the seals to Jiraiya means that results could take a while to come back, so the QMs would have ample time to figure out what those couple useful seals are.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH YES YES YES I LOVE ITHey all! This is my second time catching up with the quest (last time was in the middle of the alcohol misterator shenanigans, yikes!) and I'm still enamoured with what you've built here. So! I commissioned my lovely artist friend to draw......
I hope you like it!
Her work can be found at @magichuenicorn on Twitter, or SoyBee Art over on Facebook
This quest got me to finally stop lurking and make an account, so I could post this, and hopefully vote and gives likes and such to the updates and plans coming up! Let's see where this wild ride takes us.
We actually have a pretty good idea what they do, though we don't have stat writeups for them.
Proximity-triggered explosives? The raptor population will slowly be bred not to take the riskSo then you're saying we can take care of the raptor problem by sending out carrier pigeons with explosive seals?
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Shin Quest: That's what we've been saying!!!!!
I do want to find out what seals Hidden Mountain had.
Maybe we could help with spoons a little by suggesting seals that might feasibly have been created by studying a summoning scroll?
Edit:
Never mind then.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Asking because I perceive this may or may not be a thing:
You guys aren't rushing to create,stat out, and write up a big pile of jutsu for us to learn over the break or something are you? If this is ever a problem, you realize that you can just pose this question to us and the thread will likely have a dozen or so (hopefully reasonably balanced) jutsu written up within the span of a few days?
If there are other areas that we can contribute on to save you guys some time spent on annoying mechanical bullshit, I personally would not mind lending a hand, and I imagine many others wouldn't mind chipping in on that front as well.
They apparently already have the fluff for mountain seals set in stone (heh), they just dont have everything statted up and written out mechanically speaking.
inb4 "Elemental Mastery Seal"
- Location
- Potato land
I'm fine not using seals Hazou can't infuse, if we also guarantee that this has the PR effect we want.
But Keiko not using her Pangolins at all is going way too far, to the point of letting our enemies define our victory conditions.
"We" are not winning using Pangolins, Keiko is. Pangolins which she summons using her own chakra, being the only person in the whole world capable of it. If Kiba were in the tournament, would you expect him not to bring Akamaru to the fights? What about the crab summoning clan from Mist? Do you think Naruto and Gaara failed to use their bijuu-granted abilities in the previous exam tournament?
There's not even an argument to be made about the Pangolins being too powerful, given that the aforementioned previous tournament was won by "I punch out elite jounin" Naruto. And you know, after his win, I bet there were complaints about it only being made possible by the Kyuubi.
Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter. The exam is a PR event. When Leaf sends Naruto out on mission, he's going to use his full skill set. When Keiko goes out to fight for the village, Pangolins will be involved. Her public identity is "The Pangolin Summoner". There's a serious argument in favour of her crushing her opposition as hard as she can, just to establish a reputation for herself.
Like, what can Hiashi even say if she does that? That it was all Pangolins? Keiko already had the scroll when Leaf took us in, so good on Jiraiya for securing such a valuable asset for the village.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Since that post, I have updated my stance on things a little bit.
I would prefer that we try not to have Keiko win by just using Pangolins. It would be great if Keiko can showcase some of her other combat abilities (RW, some wind jutsu).
I would be okay with some varied usage of Pangolin summoning.
What I don't want, is for us to suggest that she summon Pankurashun to slam dunk the opponent in every single round (or something similar) and that be the end of things. This seems like it defeats the point of the exams being a showcase/PR Event for us.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
Do we know if seals can use power sources other than the sealmaster's infusion of chakra?
Summoning scrolls probably work by using the chakra in the blood of the signature, but I'm thinking about other sorts of power sources. Like seals that work by absorbing heat or light or other forms of energy.
Summoning scrolls probably work by using the chakra in the blood of the signature, but I'm thinking about other sorts of power sources. Like seals that work by absorbing heat or light or other forms of energy.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Seals dont really use the chakra infused as power source. The infusion process isnt chakra intensive.
Unless jutsu are like, beyond hilariously inefficient in its usage of chakra, Seals likely use something else to do what they do.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
We've heard that seals draw in chakra from the environment in order to function, with the sealmaster's infusion chakra just being enough to kickstart the process. Adding in alternate energy sources doesn't sound like it would accomplish anything for us.