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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Erolki said:
I suspect part of it is that he was a clanless Genin - Chuunin and expecially Jounin probably do much better.

E: Though you're not wrong that it'd be nice if we could make it better, that's big economic shenanigans (especially since pretty much everyone else is just as poor if not worse).
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Clanless ninja have to buy their own equipment. And it sounds like this guy can barely afford a picnic basket.

EXPLOSIVES FOR EVERYONE!
Immortal Lurker said:
Wait, I'm confused. My only exposure to D Ranks have been the pulling weeds, painting houses sort of drudge work that are supposed to test if fresh genin are in any way dependable, and that they can work together without killing each other. Are they different in MfD?
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Presumably theyre higher grade because who can afford hiring mercenaries to weed their garden in a rational universe?
 
eaglejarl said:
"Okay, okay, I'm sorry," Jiraiya said, chastened. "You're right, I should act like a grownup now that I'm Hokage." He paused and tipped his head in thought before turning back to the genin. "In fact...kids, I know that you're better fighters than anyone here at the Exams and that you wanted to show that off, but you went too far. I mean, sure, it's nice that more than half of the slots in the tournament will belong to Leaf, but you made my life harder when you ensured that not one single Mist-nin will be fighting. That was rude and may have political consequences. You should have been gracious and permitted one of them to get in, just for good manners."

"Sir, yes sir!"

"And don't even try to protest that it wasn't in your control, either. No one made it in to the tournament except you and people smart enough to ally with you. The politically savvy thing to have done would be to make sure that at least one person from each of the major villages got in, instead of completely locking out Mist, Cloud, and Rock in favor of one Sand team and a couple minor villages. If you're going to be chūnin then you need to learn to think about the big picture, okay?"

"Sir, yes sir!"

Ren's Iron Nerve was probably the only thing that kept her from exploding Jiraiya with her brain.
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He was doing this in front of all the other Kages omigod AHAHAHAHAHA
 
One thing I think this chapter does a good job of demonstrating is what I think the next major challenge of the quest will be. Specifically, we are powerful, and that means our actions have ramifications beyond just ourselves now. We need to consider that. This includes figuring out how hard we ought to win by, who we ought to support, who we should spend time with, how we dress & present ourselves, and how we act in victory (and defeat). Recent instances of this which spring to mind are:
  • Jiraiya interactions
    • Mocking the other Kage
    • mentioning how we could have politic'd harder (which, admitedly, was largely just more mocking)
  • The reactions of the random ninja who got paired with us each round of the fifth event
  • Intra-Leaf politics with:
    • Hyuga
    • Nara
    • Akane
    • Ryōichi / Haru / other clanless
  • Hazou's frankly terrible reaction to Shin
With us no longer living in the woods, we ought to figure out what our stance is as a new clan on all these things and present a united front. My understanding at the moment, is that we're pretty scrappy. That's likely a good stance for interacting with clanless ninja, and will be fine with interacting with our allies (i.e. Nara), but may present problems when dealing with other established powers like merchant councils, Hyuga, and foreign-nin leadership. One thing that Ryōichi's section really drove home for me was that we're already presenting an image e.g. with how we dress and how we talk. We ought to take a serious examination of how that image will benefit or harm our long term goals and refine it to better use it as the tool it is.

This will likely involve spending some XP on socials, and probably spending some money to at least have multiple sets of clothes for different occasions (especially now that our standard "make clothing & disguises" method is gone)

Personally, I think a sort of "common man's ninja" would be a good stance to take. Ways we can do that are:
  1. Wear worn functional clothing whenever possible
    1. Pros:
      1. reduce the difficulty in using sealing enhancements
      2. Comes off as more "genuine"
      3. Easier to disguise self as standard ninja in crowds
    2. Cons:
      1. Will make high-born people look down on us making high level politics slightly harder
  2. Regularly interact with clannless ninja, e.g. take clanless ninja with us on missions, and have rotating invitations of clanless ninja to gamenights
    1. Pros:
      1. Establishes a base of popular support which provides manpower -- helpful for sealmaster plans, helpful for uplift plans
      2. Gets us in regular contact with the people closest to those whose lives we're trying to help -- anchors our plans ("Help Ryōichi's family", not general "make life better")
    2. Cons:
      1. Will mean less political leverage with higherups e.g. Hyuga, Shino, established clans etc.
      2. Increases chances of assassination attempts (easier for someone to pose as or convert a clanless ninja than a clanned ninja)
  3. Establish a charity of some sort -- we've got money from Pangolin Gold, we can spend some to establish a public image
    1. Pros:
      1. Probably will improve somebody's life somehow
      2. Provides a clear "We're putting our money where our mouth is" demonstration of uplift concepts
    2. Cons:
      1. Money can be spent on other things
      2. Depending on the charity, especially if it is ninja-related, may draw ire (e.g. if it means ninja are relying less on craftsmen)

There's probably a few other things we can do, but I think the above are a good start to establishing the Gotkestu image as we want it to be established. Obviously, we will want Mari and Jiraiya's inputs on this, but at the very least, I think some sort of standardized "here's the Gotketsu response to issues" would be good to establish (Mari and Jiraiya may already have this covered, but I don't think the kids are aware of it).
 
I was under the impression that ninja pay is pretty good even for genin (because D-ranks are basically ninja each doing as much labor as a gaggle of unpowered adults) but I could see it not being enough if someone was trying to support a whole family off of it or if they had expensive needs like medicine.

Speaking of medicine, I wonder if there's some reason medic-nin can't fix damp lung (pneumonia? tuberculosis?) or if civilians just don't have access to that kind of medical care because medic-nin are too scarce.

I agree about charity being a good idea, although instead of handing out money I'd be in favor of charity being in more concrete terms. For instance, if there aren't enough medic-nin to go around, maybe we could do something about that by subsidizing their training or even founding a school for them. In fact, there's an idea that might even get Tsunade back to Leaf; she could help people by sharing her knowledge through lectures and textbooks without ever having to see a drop of blood herself. Other people could oversee the messy hands-on parts of the training.

@Radvic's idea about figuring out how we want to present ourselves and approach things is a good one, and I pretty much agree with his conclusions.
 
fictionfan said:
I wish that we had known about that having Noburi give him a check up and professional care would have been a much better apology.
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With any luck, it will come up during the games night. Though I'm not sure if damp lung is something Noburi can cure. We might be able to check up on the doctor, see if he is overcharging, giving bad medicine, or has misdiagnosed diseases.
 
fictionfan said:
I wish that we had known about that having Noburi give him a check up and professional care would have been a much better apology.
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We still don't really know about it in character- but I suspect it may come up in game night, if we convincingly break down enough perceived barriers and let slip (if Noburi/Jiraiya OPSEC allows) some of our more humanitarian efforts pre-Goketsu.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
With any luck, it will come up during the games night. Though I'm not sure if damp lung is something Noburi can cure. We might be able to check up on the doctor, see if he is overcharging, giving bad medicine, or has misdiagnosed diseases.
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Noburi is likely better able to deal with damp lung the most medics. Water is his thing.
Kiba said:
Ninja gets free medical care.
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This is a relative of a ninja I don't think they get it automaticly.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I agree about charity being a good idea, although instead of handing out money I'd be in favor of charity being in more concrete terms. For instance, if there aren't enough medic-nin to go around, maybe we could do something about that by subsidizing their training or even founding a school for them. In fact, there's an idea that might even get Tsunade back to Leaf; she could help people by sharing her knowledge through lectures and textbooks without ever having to see a drop of blood herself. Other people could oversee the messy hands-on parts of the training.
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Oh yeah, when I said "charity" I don't imagine just handing out money, I mean starting an institution which helps people. Ideas include:

  1. Teaching
    1. Reading & writing to civilians
    2. Sealing (get that civilian seal project off the ground possibly)
    3. Math / critical thinking classes
    4. Standard Jutsu instruction for clanless ninja
  2. Medical assistance
    1. Noburi repeating his goodwill healing from Mountain
    2. Starting a medical ninja training program
  3. Basic amenities assistance
    1. Paying to improve the slums construction
    2. Ensure access to clean water everywhere
  4. Setting up an orphanage
    1. Pay someone to find street urchins and give them free food and beds
  5. Ninja opportunities
    1. Funding missions and requesting for specific clanless ninja to go on them (e.g. C - Rank -- Go to Iron and harvest sleeping powder for macerator payouts)
 
Does Konoha have soup kitchens? For that matter, are there enough poor/homeless people which would necessitate soup kitchens in Konoha?
 
Kiba said:
I don't think Konoha have slums.
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Every city has slums. Some are just worse than others. Likely, Konoha's are better than other city slums of the time, but given the setting, I assume they aren't going to be exactly pleasant. For instance, Ryōichi lives in a house with at least 9 people sleeping in the same room which is less than 12' by 12'. If that doesn't count as "a slum" type dwelling, I'm unsure what does. It's also worth noting that Ryōichi's family likely has more income than others as Ryōichi is a reasonably competent genin, and so it is unlikely they are an extreme example of the type of poverty the average populace lives in in Konoha.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
Wait, I'm confused. My only exposure to D Ranks have been the pulling weeds, painting houses sort of drudge work that are supposed to test if fresh genin are in any way dependable, and that they can work together without killing each other. Are they different in MfD?
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Well here are a few possible explainations.
  • Hiring Ninja for D ranks is both a case of conspicuous consumption and patriotism. People pay more to both show how wealthy they are and show how they are supporting the village. D ranks are a result of very successful propganda.
  • D ranks are subsided. The village does not want idle killing machines hanging around in need of money. Also it makes it so that ninja are visably helping around the village which is good for image.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
Wait, I'm confused. My only exposure to D Ranks have been the pulling weeds, painting houses sort of drudge work that are supposed to test if fresh genin are in any way dependable, and that they can work together without killing each other. Are they different in MfD?
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That's exactly what they are. They aren't necessary by any stretch, but they serve several useful functions, including but not limited to:

  • Being exhausting, boring, and unpleasant so that the fresh genin are motivated to get their act together ASAP.
  • Providing a minor administrative punishment for genin who displease their superiors.
  • Giving civilians some exposure to ninja as a positive force.
  • Providing genin some financial support during their shakedown period such that not all of the expense is on the Tower's books.
somnolentSlumber said:
Missing quotation mark.
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Fixed, thanks.
 
fictionfan said:
Well here are a few possible explainations.
  • Hiring Ninja for D ranks is both a case of conspicuous consumption and patriotism. People pay more to both show how wealthy they are and show how they are supporting the village. D ranks are a result of very successful propganda.
  • D ranks are subsided. The village does not want idle killing machines hanging around in need of money. Also it makes it so that ninja are visably help around the village which is good for image.
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Leaf's propaganda engine is pretty fuckin' good, yeah.
 
fictionfan said:
Well here are a few possible explainations.
  • Hiring Ninja for D ranks is both a case of conspicuous consumption and patriotism. People pay more to both show how wealthy they are and show how they are supporting the village. D ranks are a result of very successful propganda.
  • D ranks are subsided. The village does not want idle killing machines hanging around in need of money. Also it makes it so that ninja are visably helping around the village which is good for image.
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EJ has a post on mission types here:

eaglejarl said:
Here's some general details about how missions work. We're trying to figure out the exact numbers but there's a total absence of QM spoons for the task, and we'd like to get the help of the economically-talented members of the hivemind. Your task: Assign plausible numbers for cost of living in Konoha and attendant rates for mission pay. Your reward: +10 XP and the gratitude of your fellow questers. Let us know what information you need that isn't already available.


More information coming soon, but here's a starter:


Missions are paid by civilians. They go to the Hokage Tower and talk to the desk chūnin to get them filed. There will be some paper shuffling, it will be assigned a rank, the Hokage will sign off (usually a rubber stamp), and then one or more ninja will be assigned when they come available. Mission priority is set by the Tower and missions may not happen immediately if the selected personnel are not available right away. Typically the delay will not be more than a couple of days.

There's a standard scale -- D,C,B, and A-ranks. The ranks are subjective and determined on the spot. Pay varies within levels; clients can choose to pay above the minimum charge in order to increase the priority of their mission. (Note: This isn't a democracy, so ranks and pay are ultimately at the discretion of the Hokage and he can order a mission to cost more if he wants.)

D-rank:
Max Duration: A few hours
Risk: None
Description: Inside Leaf, low economic value, typically given to students and fresh genin. Basically chores. Used as teambuilding exercises. The Tower may not accept such missions if they feel it's a waste of their people's time.
Typical pay: 20 ryo/hour/ninja

C-rank:
Max Duration: 2 days
Risk: Low
Description: Anything outside Leaf is at least C-rank. Typically short-duration, low-risk missions. Little expectation of contact with hostile ninja or significant numbers of chakra beasts. Examples: escort a caravan to another town near Leaf, kill a small group of bandits.
Typical pay:

B-rank:
Max Duration: 2 weeks
Risk: Moderate.
Description Like a C-rank but with a longer duration (2 weeks+) or higher risk. Contact with hostile ninja or chakra beasts is probable. Example: escort a caravan to a city outside of Fire.
Typical pay:

A-rank:
Max Duration: Any
Risk: High
Description: Contact with hostile ninja / chakra beasts certain. Example: search-and-destroy a swath of land to eliminate all threats.
Typical pay:
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Edit: I think the first pass analysis which may or may not be canon is here
 
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Radvic said:
Oh yeah, when I said "charity" I don't imagine just handing out money, I mean starting an institution which helps people. Ideas include:

  1. Teaching
    1. Reading & writing to civilians
    2. Sealing (get that civilian seal project off the ground possibly)
    3. Math / critical thinking classes
    4. Standard Jutsu instruction for clanless ninja
  2. Medical assistance
    1. Noburi repeating his goodwill healing from Mountain
    2. Starting a medical ninja training program
  3. Basic amenities assistance
    1. Paying to improve the slums construction
    2. Ensure access to clean water everywhere
  4. Setting up an orphanage
    1. Pay someone to find street urchins and give them free food and beds
  5. Ninja opportunities
    1. Funding missions and requesting for specific clanless ninja to go on them (e.g. C - Rank -- Go to Iron and harvest sleeping powder for macerator payouts)
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I'm pretty down for all of these.

If we can improve civilian health and well-being and make a few open trade agreements we can engage in a bit of civilian brain drain from other nations.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Speaking of medicine, I wonder if there's some reason medic-nin can't fix damp lung (pneumonia? tuberculosis?) or if civilians just don't have access to that kind of medical care because medic-nin are too scarce.
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It was stated before by Kabuto that ninjas are more resilient to illnesses and this one sounds like the type that ninjas could not contract so there is a chance most medic nin never bother to learn how to fix it.
 
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