Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[Sentient Tree]

Gagging them won't work, the gags could be easily removed. If that worked, unconscious prisoners also would've counted as "unable to speak", but they're specifically said to be acceptable.

We really don't want to boost score of any Blue Teams, even with squad Asuma on them. If there's a Blue Team with a -1000 penalty, we indeed could use them, but there may not be. Also: it may be that Red Teams need to be in the cells of their Blue Teams specifically, not just any cells.

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Good point on not boosting enemies' points.
How about we just ask the other ninjas on our team how to properly imprison someone? They are ninja, and some of them should have knowledge of how this works. Worst case scenario is that we have to see how other blue teams imprison people and copy anyone who actually gets points.

 

[18scsc]

@Roomba

RE: Tactics

The area surrounding the facility should just be bombed to hell before we commit to actually making the attack. The goal here is to destroy any traps in the surrounding area and hopefully draw enemy ninja out in to the open where we can crush them more easily.

I'm thinking two waves of attack after our initial breach. The first is comprised of elemental clones equipped with goo bomb and training explosive seals. The goal is to collect intelligence regarding the location of enemy ninja in the base, as well as to trigger traps and establish a foothold within the facility. Because the activation of a seal is a supplementary action the clones can both make normal attacks and activate goo bomb or training explosive tags in the same round. The second wave should be comprised of pangolins and our melee fighters. All of whom should have activated banshee and banshee slayer seals on their person in order to further harm and disorient our enemy.

EDIT: It also might be a good idea to make more Banshees, we will only have 15 between us all I belive.

 

[Emstar]

I want to have a reasonable plan on the table as early as possible. Please comment. In particular, I think the tactics aren't optimal, but it's hard to know what works for ninja. Maybe leave this stuff to our team?

[X] Action Plan: Be Zabuza

Outline:

• Fulfill nominal objectives.
• KO other candidates (AMAP).
• Inflict maximum legal point penalties.
• Steal word-halves.

Team Talk:

• Word-half custody:.
  • Teammates deserve a share, but possession will be dangerous after this round.
  • Offer explosives(real ones) in trade.
  • If they decline, don't protect later.
  • Make aware: Plan to be public re: possession.
• Friendly participants: We want to avoid overscrewing 1 Leaf team (no KO, no word-half stealing); ask if others have similar wishes.
  • If Doigama doesn't mention Wolf compatriot, confront him.
• Check allies' chakra reserves:
  • Pretense: Familiarizing to ease future transfers.
  • If Kato lied about his reserves, confront. Consider drain to KO & bringing him to medic station.
• Chakra Sharing: May need teammates' chakra to bootstrap Pangolin summoning.
  • Point out given out seals as proof of good intentions.
• Debrief
  
  • Debrief them about info on the dossier
    • Be relatively vague about Team Asuma and Team Kurenais specific capabilities: give generic info but don't lie.
  • Share Hinata's sketch of general facility layout
    • All facilities will likely be similar.
• Carrot and Stick
  
  • If Teammates seem to be uncooperative or suspicious (with respect to above) note how flexible we are with taking everyones interests into account.
  • Keiko will pointedly remind them that betrayal is unwise, slyly asks Pankurashun what Pangolins do to traitors (intimidate).
    

Pangolins:

• Summon: Pankurashun, Pandajouru, Pangaya, Panashe (can delay until after defeating designated Blue Team).

Seals:

• Explosives: Encourage liberal use.
  • Training: For people.
  • Weapon:2 for demolitions.
• Oxygen Mask: Protect from Doigama's poison.
• Earmuff seals: Banshees.
• Banshees/Goo Bombs: Frontline fighters.
  • Stress: Valuable, we want them back if unused.
• Use Pangolin pepper Macerators if a good opportunity presents itself.

Roles:

• Scouting and Interference: Panashe, Doigama, Kato.
• Support and Ranged: Keiko, Noburi, Gomi.
• Assault: Everyone else.

Strategy:

• Always scout ahead. Priorities: Obtain a broad view of situation, avoid capture.
• Accept surrender from non-top candidates: Drain chakra, leave word-halves.
• Destroy enemy documents, put other Red Teams into cells. Give everyone Moderate Consequences (ideally via chakra drain). Steal word-halves.
• Breach our designated Blue facility first. Recover key/documents.
• Afterwards:
  • Noburi redistributes chakra.
  • Signal Team Asuma.
  • Send scouts to non-Team Asuma sites.
  • Deliver documents to proctor station in full force.
• Prefer attacking softer targets. Prioritize Red Teams (harder to pin down).
• Rinse and repeat after site is clear/mostly clear.
• Willing to not overscrew 'friendly participants', but not gain event objectives (above).
• Keiko Intimidates captured top team members into being afraid to come after us in round 2.

Tactics:

• General idea: Shock & Awe.
  • Explosions: Distract/intimidate.
  • Area-disabling seals: Soften up targets.
  • Attack with overwhelming force.
• Goo Bombs/Banshees: Open engagements.
  • Ideally throw in open spaces.
  • Inside buildings: Can also throw into rooms with likely enemy presence.
• Interference + Support: Can use explosives. Includes Keiko throwing Firelog Macerators above enemies' heads.
• Assault: Engage stunned/immobilized enemies. Pangolins lead charge.
• If assaulting building: Breach multiple directions simultaneously, clear room by room.
  • Focus enemies, scouts check traps afterwards.
• Support/Interference: Watch for retreats/reinforcements.
• Chase fleeing enemies. Don't waste time on individuals if hard to track.

Contingencies:

• Fetch proctors if enemy teams blatantly violate rules.
• Around Doigama/Kato: Don't leak too much information re: missing-nin activities/Leaf politics. Track their seal use if they cheat on returns.
• ?

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Additions that I think are essential are in red.

Do we want to start off with signalling Team Asuma as @faflec suggested earlier? I personally think we will be paired against Team Kurenai to start off but thats just me.

I think giving them info on people from the dossier is useful, as is giving them a look at Hinata's sketch of the facility layout. We want to be sure to scrape as many aspect bonuses as possible that can be used in combat (whether we are vs Top Team or fighting inside the building.).

One other thing that I think bears mention: Its very confusing what the play by play is going to be from your Strategy section. Foe example you have

"Destroy enemy documents, put other Red Teams into cells. Give everyone Moderate Consequences (ideally via chakra drain). Steal word-halves."

And then right after:

"Breach our designated Blue facility first. Recover key/documents."

Maybe put a (General) in front of anything we want to do in general, and leave it out of something we want to do in a specific situation (Re: Breaching).

It's sort of obvious what we want to do chronologically since we've been talking about it for a week, but I want to make it easy for EJ to read this.

 

[Kurkistan]

What grue?

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On that note: Sorry to spoil the fun, but it'd probably be a good idea to post some kind of update at the tail-end of an update or something updating casual readers on the demise of the henge. Otherwise they could grow very confused.

 

[Inferno Vulpix]

On that note: Sorry to spoil the fun, but it'd probably be a good idea to post some kind of update at the tail-end of an update or something updating casual readers on the demise of the henge. Otherwise they could grow very confused.

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The other option is that we come back to Konoha and see the subtle panic first-hand. And the not-so-subtle panic, because Kagome.

 

[faflec]

The other option is that we come back to Konoha and see the subtle panic first-hand. And the not-so-subtle panic, because Kagome.

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Will there even be a Konoha after Kagome's calmed down?

 

[Roomba]

RE: Tactics

The area surrounding the facility should just be bombed to hell before we commit to actually making the attack. The goal here is to destroy any traps in the surrounding area and hopefully draw enemy ninja out in to the open where we can crush them more easily.

I'm thinking two waves of attack after our initial breach. The first is comprised of elemental clones equipped with goo bomb and training explosive seals. The goal is to collect intelligence regarding the location of enemy ninja in the base, as well as to trigger traps and establish a foothold within the facility. Because the activation of a seal is a supplementary action the clones can both make normal attacks and activate goo bomb or training explosive tags in the same round. The second wave should be comprised of pangolins and our melee fighters. All of whom should have activated banshee and banshee slayer seals on their person in order to further harm and disorient our enemy.

EDIT: It also might be a good idea to make more Banshees, we will only have 15 between us all I belive.

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I've come to firmly believe that having 4 Pangolin is already cutting it very close on the chakra front, so we definitely can't afford to spam clones in addition.

Clearing the site vicinity with explosives is tempting, though it completely abandons the element of surprise. Still, we have shit for Stealth, so maybe it's not a problem.

Additions that I think are essential are in red.

Do we want to start off with signalling Team Asuma as @faflec suggested earlier? I personally think we will be paired against Team Kurenai to start off but thats just me.

I think giving them info on people from the dossier is useful, as is giving them a look at Hinata's sketch of the facility layout. We want to be sure to scrape as many aspect bonuses as possible that can be used in combat (whether we are vs Top Team or fighting inside the building.).

One other thing that I think bears mention: Its very confusing what the play by play is going to be from your Strategy section. Foe example you have

"Destroy enemy documents, put other Red Teams into cells. Give everyone Moderate Consequences (ideally via chakra drain). Steal word-halves."

And then right after:

"Breach our designated Blue facility first. Recover key/documents."

Maybe put a (General) in front of anything we want to do in general, and leave it out of something we want to do in a specific situation (Re: Breaching).

It's sort of obvious what we want to do chronologically since we've been talking about it for a week, but I want to make it easy for EJ to read this.

Click to shrink...

Ok, made the proposed changes.

 

[faflec]

@Roomba Maybe add a note to summon more (combat-related) Pangolins as we gain more and more chakra?

 

[Erolki]

@Roomba, @huhYeahGoodPoint, I'd like to firmly reiterate something a couple people have mentioned: I really don't think we should give other people access to the Banshee and anti-Banshee seals. Use them, sure, but we shouldn't hand them out for possible theft. Goo Bombs I'm less worried about - they're basically a seal version of a relatively well-known jutsu (AFAIK Syrup Trap is pretty basic and well known, anyway), but sound manipulation is a niche-yet-powerful trick that Jiraiya himself only developed after/during dealing with a clan with unusual jutsu. We can personally deploy Banshees as non-lethal explosive substitutes and hand out Goo Bombs for people to toss into rooms as needed (though we should probably also only hand out Kagome's, so we don't risk facing Jiraiya-level goo in the tournament or next round).

 

[Emstar]

@Roomba

I think summoning additional pangolins is out because the hourly drain will become truly ruinous. If we want a numerical edge for attacking second quadrant, we could make a bunch of earth clones (say, 6) and outfit them with Fukais Earth weapons and shields (I believe the Rice ninja has a jutsu for this right? Shes the Earth Elemental IIRC). We can have the clones chakra adhesion to one of the bigger pangolins and jump off once we crest into the battle.

 

[faflec]

@Roomba

I think summoning additional pangolins is out because the hourly drain will become truly ruinous. If we want a numerical edge for attacking second quadrant, we could make a bunch of earth clones (say, 6) and outfit them with Fukais Earth weapons and shields (I believe the Rice ninja has a jutsu for this right? Shes the Earth Elemental IIRC). We can have the clones chakra adhesion to one of the bigger pangolins and jump off once we crest into the battle.

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Clones last 10 minutes and have 1/3 the user's skill level (or the level of the jutsu, whichever is lower). Do we really want to be using them?

 

[Emstar]

Clones last 10 minutes and have 1/3 the user's skill level (or the level of the jutsu, whichever is lower). Do we really want to be using them?

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If we have leftover Chakra from location A and are moving to location B its the only thing I can think of that would be a lasting expenditure.

The duration isn't an issue, it should take us less than 5 minutes to move in between locations. They're only useful in the initial stage of the battle as additional Shock and Awe bullshit. If they take a few hits or deal out one or two tangible hits then its worth it.

Also, consider: They will be nothing more than mildly annoying combatants, but if theres a horde of them they will need to be dealt with. This takes time and energy.

If we need numbers its a good alternative to summoning another combat pangolin. We cant really go above the initial 3 + Panashe because the hourly drain will become massive.

 

[faflec]

If we have leftover Chakra from location A and are moving to location B its the only thing I can think of that would be a lasting expenditure.

The duration isn't an issue, it should take us less than 5 minutes to move in between locations. They're only useful in the initial stage of the battle as additional Shock and Awe bullshit. If they take a few hits or deal out one or two tangible hits then its worth it.

Also, consider: They will be nothing more than mildly annoying combatants, but if theres a horde of them they will need to be dealt with. This takes time and energy.

If we need numbers its a good alternative to summoning another combat pangolin. We cant really go above the initial 3 + Panashe because the hourly drain will become massive.

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A (single) clone lasts 10 minutes compared to a Pangolins 1hr+. They also cost 15CP plus chakra to use techniques/boost, which Pangolins do not need. Even assuming we Summon at the last minute it wouldn't take a lot of clones to match the equivalent chakra cost to summon a Pangolin.

 

[Cariyaga]

I don't think we shoudl be giving out our seals at all TBH. Training explosives, sure, whatever, but otherwise no.

 

[Roomba]

I've been using this spreadsheet for simplified sustainability analysis: Pain train sustainability

And my conclusion right now is that four expensive Pangolins is cutting it pretty close.

@Roomba, @huhYeahGoodPoint, I'd like to firmly reiterate something a couple people have mentioned: I really don't think we should give other people access to the Banshee and anti-Banshee seals. Use them, sure, but we shouldn't hand them out for possible theft. Goo Bombs I'm less worried about - they're basically a seal version of a relatively well-known jutsu (AFAIK Syrup Trap is pretty basic and well known, anyway), but sound manipulation is a niche-yet-powerful trick that Jiraiya himself only developed after/during dealing with a clan with unusual jutsu. We can personally deploy Banshees as non-lethal explosive substitutes and hand out Goo Bombs for people to toss into rooms as needed (though we should probably also only hand out Kagome's, so we don't risk facing Jiraiya-level goo in the tournament or next round).

Click to shrink...

I don't think we shoudl be giving out our seals at all TBH. Training explosives, sure, whatever, but otherwise no.

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I disagree with this, in the sense that I think what we're trying to do is difficult enough without these kinds of constraints. I'm going to try and squeeze as much performance out of our combat engine as possible, and someone potentially stealing a Goo Bomb or Banshee is a risk I'm willing to take. This is not the time to be conservative about our resources.

If you want more conservative, you're going to have to create your own plan, I'm afraid.

 

[faflec]

Query: Do we need to sustain a fight? I mean, FMPOV we're going to be done in an hour or two, maximum.

 

[Roomba]

Query: Do we need to sustain a fight? I mean, FMPOV we're going to be done in an hour or two, maximum.

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That depends on how our enemies behave. If we have a lot of runners or elusive Red Teams, we might get somewhat bogged down.

 

[Emstar]

Query: Do we need to sustain a fight? I mean, FMPOV we're going to be done in an hour or two, maximum.

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You're not taking runners/stragglers into account.

What we absolutely don't want to happen at the end is being forced to de-summon our pangolins due to a >200 CP/hour drain and then be hit by a team that ran and hid after they saw what we were doing.

We should plan for at least a handful of hours of emergency sustain so that this is mitigated.

 

[faflec]

You're not taking runners/stragglers into account.

What we absolutely don't want to happen at the end is being forced to de-summon our pangolins due to a >200 CP/hour drain and then be hit by a team that ran and hid after they saw what we were doing.

We should plan for at least a handful of hours of emergency sustain so that this is mitigated.

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So...your countersuggestion is to summon a bunch of clones that cost as much as any Pangolin? I recognize that continuing the chakra cost could be an issue, but there's no functional difference to those clones (which get popped after) and a Pangolin that we'd desummon after an hour.

 

[Sentient Tree]

@Roomba, @huhYeahGoodPoint, I'd like to firmly reiterate something a couple people have mentioned: I really don't think we should give other people access to the Banshee and anti-Banshee seals. Use them, sure, but we shouldn't hand them out for possible theft. Goo Bombs I'm less worried about - they're basically a seal version of a relatively well-known jutsu (AFAIK Syrup Trap is pretty basic and well known, anyway), but sound manipulation is a niche-yet-powerful trick that Jiraiya himself only developed after/during dealing with a clan with unusual jutsu. We can personally deploy Banshees as non-lethal explosive substitutes and hand out Goo Bombs for people to toss into rooms as needed (though we should probably also only hand out Kagome's, so we don't risk facing Jiraiya-level goo in the tournament or next round).

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Agreed, although I personally believe that Goo Bombs are also not something we want to hand out, since being able to roll sealing instead of Taijutsu or weapons is probably really useful, especially if it's a powerful sealmaster's sealing. It makes it possible for genin to contribute meaningfully to battles against high level jonin, or even S rankers if the sealmaster is good enough (probably only S rank for us, since I doubt there's many other S rank sealmasters out there).

Anyway, do we know if Goo Bomb and Banshee seals get erased or destroyed or anything when used? Because otherwise we have to worry about people just picking up our discarded seals after or during a battle, and bringing them home to a sealmaster. One way to counter this is to pick up all used seals after a battle, or we could also attach them to training explosives that are set to go off about a second after the Banshee/Goo Bomb. This would also add a double whammy to Goo Bombs from the explosion.

 

[Noumero]

@Erolki, @Cariyaga, for what it's worth, Jiraiya is potentially willing to breach OpSec on all these seals:

And before you ask, I've already given you all the types of seals that I'm comfortable risking an OPSEC breach over. I'm happy to infuse them for you, but I'm not disclosing any more until we're home.

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Emphasis mine. We shouldn't hand them out to random passersby, but if we need them to win the exams, so be it.

 

[Emstar]

So...your countersuggestion is to summon a bunch of clones that cost as much as any Pangolin? I recognize that continuing the chakra cost could be an issue, but there's no functional difference to those clones (which get popped after) and a Pangolin that we'd desummon after an hour.

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No....

Edit: Missed this: Well, if you want to de-summon them after an hour. Yeah, you're right. My only thoughts as to why this would be an issue is : What if the enemy pops our pangolin? Then we can't resummon them immediately can we?

The purpose of the clones is to act as a damage soak and to split enemy attention, not to be effective offensively beyond that.

1)They don't cost as much as a Pangolin, because they aren't contributing to an hourly drain.

A Pangolin for our purposes shouldn't cost its base summon cost. After we clear our base we should budget 2-3 hours of chakra at least for the hourly drain. We need to amortize our expected total CP expenditure on each Pangolin. That is their true cost for this event.

2) This is merely for a cheap numerical advantage and to add chaos in the brawl, not a countermeasure for stragglers or surprise attacks.

This reminds me.

@Roomba

Could you add a clause in to the effect of "If we are surprise attacked by an entire Team or face multiple Teams that have joined forces to take us out: Summon Panchipama and Pandamonium"

I don't know whether Panjandrum is the right choice here, or if we should Summon Pandamonium, but the later seems very physically strong so that should work out.

Thoughts everyone?

 

[Cariyaga]

The problem with using training explosives AND goo bombs is that the person targetted would be dead. They CAN'T use athletics for defense. This means that they take Weapons Roll divided by 3 shifts of damage. That's enough to kill any genin.

e: Also, we should give our pangolin Banshee Slayers/Usamatsu's Glorious Life-Preserving Purifier when we go in to attack. Except Panashe. She needs her nose.

 

[Sentient Tree]

Could you add a clause in to the effect of "If we are surprise attacked by an entire Team or face multiple Teams that have joined forces to take us out: Summon Panchipama and Pandamonium"

I don't know whether Panjandrum is the right choice here, or if we should Summon Pandamonium, but the later seems very physically strong so that should work out.

Thoughts everyone?

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Pandamonium is a ranged weapons pangolin, so I don't know how well he'll do in melee. Furthermore, do we actually know that he can pull his punches enough at range to avoid killing anyone? He throws giant boulders. It would make sense for Kei to have asked this before going into the exams, but I don't know if WE know.

 

[Emstar]

Pandamonium is a ranged weapons pangolin, so I don't know how well he'll do in melee. Furthermore, do we actually know that he can pull his punches enough at range to avoid killing anyone? He throws giant boulders. It would make sense for Kei to have asked this before going into the exams, but I don't know if WE know.

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I was going with: His brute strength has been shown to be ridiculous. He can just pick up enemy ninja and casually toss them a few dozen yards away. He body slammed Panjandrum, and that guy is really tall and really fat.

But we can summon Panjandrum instead. Or just summon Panchipama. I just think a contingency in case of surprise attack or large enemy force should be added in.