Guys:
  • Yes, we are ninja who can use ninja magic or brute strength to break open the doors
  • BUT THEY ARE ALSO ALL NINJA WHO CAN USE NINJA MAGIC OR BRUTE STRENGTH TO BREAK OPEN THE DOORS
  • Some of them are even ninja who considerably outskill us and whose job it is to keep all the others safe
Those closed doors are not going to hurt anyone, and they are not our problem.

The difference here is that we are ninja with bullshit magic and sober. They are not. And as has been called out by @Velorien multiple times, expecting drunk, blind teenagers to use their bullshit magic in a useful/responsible manner is not exactly a reassuring state to be in. Even Chünin are basically like McDonalds managers. Ironically, the ninja are likely the most likely to cause the stampede problems, unlike the civilians who are significantly more likely to be actual adults (and thus have a much stronger alcohol tolerance). If the civilian to ninja ratio were inverted, I think your assessment would have a much high likelihood of being valid.

For the entire history of the exams no one has tried before to be "clever" by disrupting the exams for their own or their country's benefit?

Probably, but it doesn't seem like Hazou has studied the entire history of the exams.

Actually @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail - is it possible for us to get a GM ruling on how dangerous the stampede is / seems to Hazou? It seems like IC we should have a pretty good picture / expectation of what will happen, but the hivemind seems pretty split between 'people will die crushed against the wall / trampled' and 'people will at worst trip or get kicked once or twice'.

The repeated call outs to "drunk teenagers making dumb decisions" by @Velorien seems likely to indicate that this is more likely to be really bad, than to be moderately inconvenient.
Adhoc vote count started by Icehawk78 on Jun 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM, finished with 624 posts and 14 votes.
  • 22

    [X] Poll: Leave the Proctors to Protect People
    [X] Nope.jpg
    [X] Plan Running Like a Mole
    [X] Action Plan: Safety First
    [X] LORE UPDATE: KAGOME PANICS
    [X] LORE UPDATE: KAGOME IS CHILL; EVERYONE ELSE PANICS
    [X] LORE UPDATE: EVERYONE REACTS TO KAGOME PANICKING
    [X] Poll: WHAT THE FUCK DID I SAY ABOUT MAKING POLLS
    [X] Poll: I don't know?! This is the first I've heard of you having an opinion on the matter!!
    [X] Poll: FUCK THE POLLS
    [X] Poll: Protect People Ourselves
    [X] Substitute through an open window, then hide back in our tunnel.
    [X] Action Plan: Escape So We Can All Go To The Tournament Together
 
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The drunken riot, on the other hand...

They can't prove it was us. Even if we are spotted, we were just running away from the herd and got surprised by the alcohol vapors just like the rest. Time delayed seals are a thing and isn't it convenient how someone used an explosive on the opposite side of where we are?

E: All these joke votes are not helping with clarity. :p
Adhoc vote count started by Tua on Jun 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM, finished with 625 posts and 14 votes.
  • 22

    [X] Poll: Leave the Proctors to Protect People
    [X] Nope.jpg
    [X] Plan Running Like a Mole
    [X] Action Plan: Safety First
    [X] LORE UPDATE: KAGOME PANICS
    [X] LORE UPDATE: KAGOME IS CHILL; EVERYONE ELSE PANICS
    [X] LORE UPDATE: EVERYONE REACTS TO KAGOME PANICKING
    [X] Poll: WHAT THE FUCK DID I SAY ABOUT MAKING POLLS
    [X] Poll: I don't know?! This is the first I've heard of you having an opinion on the matter!!
    [X] Poll: FUCK THE POLLS
    [X] Poll: Protect People Ourselves
    [X] Substitute through an open window, then hide back in our tunnel.
    [X] Action Plan: Escape So We Can All Go To The Tournament Together
 
Last edited:
This is not a problem because there isn't anything that's funnelling people towards the door, so all the force just easily distributes to the side rather than squeezing people in. I.e. people bounce off the jam, instead of squeezing the crowd. There's a reason why all the dangerous stampedes happen on getting out of a building / area.

Actually @Velorien @eaglejarl @OliWhail - is it possible for us to get a GM ruling on how dangerous the stampede is / seems to Hazou? It seems like IC we should have a pretty good picture / expectation of what will happen, but the hivemind seems pretty split between 'people will die crushed against the wall / trampled' and 'people will at worst trip or get kicked once or twice'.

So we're discussing that a lot, in part trying to convince each other, in part trying to convince the GMs; but it seems like IC Hazou should just know what happens and we should plan about that. I personally can't see how anyone could ge tseriously hurt, but if we get ar uling saying so I'll just drop it.


Velorien has all but outright told us "These guys are sorta fucked if you don't do anything."
 
It would be really funny if there turned out to be no proctors in the stampede. Everyone quickly recasts henge while still in the sake mist, and there are 0 DQs.

People will try to recast henge, which presents an opportunity. Some people won't have enough chakra left to compete their plans. We can sell chakra for information. Not revealing who did it won't be hard. We post signs telling people to stand in a puddle that extends around a corner, and wear a disguise over our Henge (look like downfall?).

Also offer to sell information for chakra. Civilians are offered the chance to feel what having a small amount of chakra removed and immediately returned feels like.
 
Well they're inhaling 15-20% alcohol directly into their bloodstream. So depending on how long they stay in the mist, anywhere from "not very" to "will not remember what happened here tomorrow".
We asked Noburi to dilute it so those percentages are not accurate .

If that was truly the case they'd be dead or passed out in a round or two and we shouldn't stop running until we're in Wind
 
Frankly, they can get fucked for all I care.

We didn't cause the stampede, it's on the fruitcake who set the explosion.

We are not the only lifeline the people in the stampede have. Anything we can do a team of proctors can do better.
 
We are not the only lifeline the people in the stampede have. Anything we can do a team of proctors can do better.
Yes so we should spend a modicum amount of effort to call them over here.

Even if it's as simple as "leave a activated alarm seal on the pillar before we gtfo" this is the least we should do in any plan.
 
Yes so we should spend a modicum amount of effort to call them over here.

Even if it's as simple as "leave a activated alarm seal on the pillar before we gtfo" this is the least we should do in any plan.
The alarm seal is good. Because I see several valid responses to it. They could ignore it, they could give it a wide berth, or they could assume the door is compromised and run to a different one. People will choose different actions, splitting the crowd.
 
Wouldn't leaving an alarm seal leave evidence of a seal user's presence? And the proctors may demand to check our equipment for evidence that the same type of seal is in our pack, at a later point.

We really just need to GTFO. We can't salvage this situation without risking extreme disqualification. There is more riding on this than just a handful of civilians, who may not even do anything that would result in deaths.

We were just almost killed by a Wakahisa and you want to enter mists when we can be almost assured our prior assailant is present?

No.

Good plan otherwise; please remove this point and I would be happy to vote for it.
YOU MEAN INCLUDING THE ONE THAT ALMOST KILLED US?

1. Nobody tried to kill us. Had that been an actual attempt to kill us, we'd be dead. They would have drained us near dry, slit our throat, and collapsed the tunnel behind them. Instead they used us as bait to draw out our teammates, in what more appears to be an attempt to leave us with a very minimal amount of chakra while possibly exposing our entire team (or at least Noburi on top of Hazou) to others.

2. The Wakahisa in the crowd have no means of distinguishing us from any other person in the mist. Things are panicked at the moment due to someone's spur of the moment decision to cause a stampede, and any Wakahisa in the mist is likely to be more focused on getting the hell out of the danger zone than trying to drain people and possibly expose a clan secret.


Anyways, I'm home now, so I'll look into re-jiggering my plan a bit based on feedback in a bit.
 
Yes so we should spend a modicum amount of effort to call them over here.

Even if it's as simple as "leave a activated alarm seal on the pillar before we gtfo" this is the least we should do in any plan.
They are already here.
He'd slipped out of the final wave of guests leaving the mansion and concealed himself behind one of the pillars on the wooden raised area by the entrance (the proctors were standing at the top of the steps at the other end, facing away from him).
 
Oh yeah @eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail How many Zones are between Hazou and the mansion doors (are they in the same Zone, or...)? Are there proctors nearby that appear to be moving to the doors (e.g., to open them)?
Same zone. @OliWhail answered wrt proctors, I believe.


A slightly more relevant question: Are we allowed to spend FP for an open window with a human-sized potted plant (or similar) in view?
Yes.
I've got an idea.

Move up the pillar so we've got a better angle, then fire off two goo bombs, one toward the very back of the masses, and one near the middle. Then, hold breath and move into the mist, using HLAM.

This way , 2/3 of the crowd isn't stampeding. I'm fairly certain that SOMEONE there will have a wind technique to disperse the alcohol, so we can leave that to them.
You have 1 round until the stampede happens. That means 2 Supplemental and 1 Standard action, plus a reasonable number of Free actions.

Retrieving a seal from your pocket is a Supplemental
Arming a seal is a Supplemental
Throwing it is a Standard.

In effect (binding people)? Yes. Color/method? No.
Note that the second example was a Syrup Trap jutsu. (The one where Noburi glued Hinata down during sparring.)

Wait, really? For the entire history of the exams no one has tried before to be "clever" by disrupting the exams for their own or their country's benefit? Surely there has to have been at least one above average idiot causing an international incident before us. Politics basically demands it. Yes there are incentives to prevent gaming the system in such a way, but there should also be a precedent for cleaning up after such a mess to stop further escalation.
HDK

My dude, Mist already violated the exam repeatedly when it came to us. What is one more drop in the ocean.
Did they? At worst they have tilted the field slightly -- they gave you a disadvantageous position in the swamp, a PITA client during the escort mission, and annoying roles to play during the Mafia party. None of that would be easy to prove as deliberate, either.
 
[Y] Game-theoretic Coercion

Only enact this plan if the plan that would have won otherwise has us sticking our neck out to do anything about the "stampede" for the sake of preventing injury or minimizing damage
  • Enact the Armageddon Initiative
 
Let's say for a second that we take @Velorien's comments on the matter to mean that we can expect some serious consequences of not doing anything. What can we do to actually help? Can we do anything to help without getting ourselves DQd?

Opening the door is an obvious option - it opens outwards, so people can conceivably get crushed against it. We can use a Henged clone to do it, which costs 23 chakra in total, leaving us with 12.

However, I get the feeling that the stampede isn't the main problem here. Rather, with confused, high-strung, blind and somewhat drunk young ninja concentrated in a small space, a fight could break out and lead to unpleasant consequences. Question is, can we somehow stop that from happening?
 
Let's say for a second that we take @Velorien's comments on the matter to mean that we can expect some serious consequences of not doing anything. What can we do to actually help? Can we do anything to help without getting ourselves DQd?

Opening the door is an obvious option - it opens outwards, so people can conceivably get crushed against it. We can use a Henged clone to do it, which costs 23 chakra in total, leaving us with 12.

However, I get the feeling that the stampede isn't the main problem here. Rather, with confused, high-strung, blind and somewhat drunk young ninja concentrated in a small space, a fight could break out and lead to unpleasant consequences. Question is, can we somehow stop that from happening?
There is no action I can imagine us taking (that isn't some stupid blatant self sacrificial dramatic bullshit ) that would alleviate a drunk ninja riot
 
Intent doesn't matter, we could have easily died. Point is that someone knows our identity and has demonstrated they have no qualms putting us in mortal danger.

There's a difference between negligence and maliciousness. What exactly is it you think a Wakahisa could do with possibly a few seconds, uncertainty if we're Hazou or not, and likely in the middle of a panicked crowd?
 
The question is how Hazō would know how dangerous the stampede is. He can't see anything of what's happening, and he has no reason to know more about stampede mechanics than you or I. If anything, living in a world with a much smaller population that has fewer places/reasons to congregate in large numbers, he should know less.

Right, but he has a better picture of things like how close together people were at the start; how much space is there for people to move around; how many people are actually inside the tipserator.

Trying to model this rush towards the door, let's say the people were ~evenly distributed in a 20m x 20m area before the explosion - thats about ~1m gaps between people, which is somewhat crowded but still could happen even without external pressure. Now everyone's in a cloud of alcohol, heard an explosion somewhere overhead and vaguely 'outside' the mansion, and a warning should about being under attack.

So everyone starts running towards where they remember the mansion being. Some people trip; if you do there's on average 6 people 'behind' you that might step on you. Sense of direction will be impaired, so lets say there are more collision courses and bump that up to 10. Depending on how bad the visibility is the people behind you will either always run into you (pitch black), mostly avoid you but sometimes trip (foggy), or basically everyone but one or two clutzy folks will be fine. However, even if literally everyone runs into you and trips, a pileup of 10 people is not enough to cause serious injury; the only risk here is extended exposure to the tipserator.

How many people trip? Say there's 50 civilians, 150 candidates, 50 proctors. Most of the ninjas shouldn't trip; many civilians might, esp if they get jostled becuse they run slower / start slower. So call it 40 civs, 30 candidates, 5 proctors trip and fall behind the main wave; of those half (and all the proctors) gets up and rejoins the large wave before they all pass, and the other half fall way behind, and are basically out of consideration for stampede.

We have 30 civs, 135 candidates, 50 proctors running toward the mansion. 215 people.

Since sense of direction is suspect due to visibility / alcohol, people will emerge from the cloud in a wider wave than they started in; say 20 people instead of 12. The first wave sees a clear path to the door, and almost all go for it, except people at the very edges who come out close to the house corners and decide to go around for another entrance. (are there side doors? presumably there are?). Call it 15 people going for the door in the first wave.

(nb: ok so the waves wont actually be a thing but it's easier to think in groups than each individual person. Call it a 'wave' when every 20th person gets out of the cloud, even though they dnt emerge simultaneously)

The second wave comes out of the cloud about 2 meters behind the first one. They see 15 people running to the door, 5 people running around the mansion. It's clear there will be some congestion at the door, but it still seems like a good option, especially if you're not thinking about preserving your henge. A 50/50 split between going for the door and going around seems reasonable.

Not sure what the distance between edge of cloud and door is; but the first wave probably reaches the door about when the third wave comes out of the mist. Let's be pessimistic and assume they can't get the door open; the first person tries to push instead of pull, then there's three people at the door jostling around, then there's 5 and 5 behind them also pushing and not remembering it's an outside-opening door, so all hope is lost. Also no one wants to kick it in because property damage rules.

OK so what does the third wave see? Ten people at the door, kicks and elbows flying around, henges popped. Fifteen more people running twards the door or slowing down seeing the commotion. ~15 people running around the mansion instead.

Why would you join the big crunch if the easy option is clearly presented?
 
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