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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Anderkent said:
Is there an exit on the other side of the mansion that we can use to get to the maze etc? I like this plan.
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@eaglejarl

Would you allow one or two FP spent for a majority of windows of the mansion to have been opened by the maids earlier to try to vent the heat (i.e windows to the hedge garden would be open on the other side)
 
eaglejarl said:
Did they? At worst they have tilted the field slightly -- they gave you a disadvantageous position in the swamp, a PITA client during the escort mission, and annoying roles to play during the Mafia party. None of that would be easy to prove as deliberate, either.
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They've done a pretty good job of toeing this line, being disruptive enough that it was meaningful to us, but not enough that we'd be able to get anywhere with a complaint. However, these events form a pattern, and if the proctors suddenly try to disqualify Hazou with a -30k point penalty based on flimsy evidence, the pattern will be an argument against their neutrality in the matter.

On that note, I wanted to briefly discuss the possibility of Hazou being DQd here. To be completely honest, when I wrote the Pressure Cooker plan, the failure mode I was most frightened of was Akane being identified and blamed for the events unfolding as a result. The reason is that she's a civilian-born ninja with no backing, and it wouldn't be that difficult for Mist to bully her.

On the other hand, Hazou is the Hokage's favourite adopted son, and said Hokage is in the middle of sensitive negotiations with Mist leadership. The proctors can't just DQ him arbitrarily; doing this immediately turns into a diplomatic incident with both Jiraiya and Mist's ruling elites becoming involved. I'm pretty sure none of the proctors want to step into that minefield.

So let's say it comes to it anyway. Even if Hazou is ultimately disqualified, Jiraiya will have extracted some concessions in return; the proctors' history of tilting the field against us makes it easy for him to paint the proceedings as a witch hunt. Especially given that we performed so well in the third event, it would be easy to claim that Mist is afraid of us dominating the exams and humiliating them this way. And if the event is completely derailed, they'll look incompetent as well, and perhaps desperately trying to find a scapegoat to for their failure. Ren might push for the DQ anyway if she really needs it to save face, but it will cost her in the negotiations.

And ultimately, even if Hazou gets DQd, Keiko, Noburi and the rest of the SuperTeam are still in the exam, and untouched by the mayhem of this event. They'd be very well positioned to reach the tournament. I think this, is also a very acceptable outcome.

In conclusion, if we can have Hazou do something obviously and visibly intended to help the situation, then a subsequent DQ might not be so bad.
 
MadScientist said:
No they don't. That's the point. If any henges are broken, the proctors are instructed to instantly DQ anyone they think might even possibly have been involved.
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Actually, the rules use the world "plausible", not "possible". As such, they need to demonstrate that we plausibly could have done it. Us not being present when the dust clears probably helps reduce the chances of them demonstrating anything.


faflec said:
Wait ... what?

Why were we standing where proctors could see us?
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They know the location the mist blast came from because it's a visible effect, but can't see who did it from their vantage.
 
Roomba said:
So let's say it comes to it anyway. Even if Hazou is ultimately disqualified, Jiraiya will have extracted some concessions in return; the proctors' history of tilting the field against us makes it easy for him to paint the proceedings as a witch hunt. Especially given that we performed so well in the third event, it would be easy to claim that Mist is afraid of us dominating the exams and humiliating them this way. And if the event is completely derailed, they'll look incompetent as well, and perhaps desperately trying to find a scapegoat to for their failure. Ren might push for the DQ anyway if she really needs it to save face, but it will cost her in the negotiations.
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Don't forget Hana. Ren still needs to stay on her good side for both familial (she still cares for her and us if you read between the lines) and professional reasons (Hana is going to be the Leaf ambassador).
 
eaglejarl said:
Did they? At worst they have tilted the field slightly -- they gave you a disadvantageous position in the swamp, a PITA client during the escort mission, and annoying roles to play during the Mafia party. None of that would be easy to prove as deliberate, either.
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At the end of the day we lost 300 points because our examiner didn't change all our currency into mist ryo even though Keiko noticed the ploy.

300 is a big deal seeing how we got first place with 315 points. She may not have completely fucked us over, but that's only because the team did exceptionally well in the first place.
 
Still no feedback on my first round of possible changes. Here's another version with a few other changes (again, changes bolded):

[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

Goals: Get out of the stampede zone, avoid being disqualified, reach Super Team Leaf and update them of the situation

Means:
  1. Hazou will get off the porch and onto dirt and use Hiding Like a Mole to go underground, without being noticed by the proctors and before the stampede hits him. He will either need to move forward into the mist, or move to the side opposite of where the proctors are, depending on his understanding of where everything is and what is least likely to get him spotted. He may also pop a Misterator if he deems it necessary to assist in his ability to escape undetected. He will use a Tunneler's Friend to allow himself to breathe while underground.
  2. From there, Hazou will move away from the zone quickly, with the goal of reaching the safe zone and Super Team Leaf. Hazou will use his knowledge of the grounds to determine an appropriate place to emerge without being spotted by other contestant. (the hedge maze, a conveniently placed bush near the marquee, etc.) Exclude the tunnel from before as a possibility, as your enemies have knowledge of it. If emerging close to the marquee, check briefly to see if proctors are already there questioning ST Leaf.
  3. Once with Super Team Leaf, update them on the situation. Use hand signals to imply that proctors may be inbound or listening in. State the story in such a way that you're not directly implicated in anything, and to make it appear to any eavesdroppers that the ST Leaf noticed that the temperature change was a trap to herd people in, that they didn't allow themselves to be herded, and that you were sent in to do recon since you had a means to escape. Make it clear that you think whoever incited the panic with the explosive tag is an idiot, and that the likely mass disqualifications and possible civilian injuries that would result from that action could get anyone blamed for it kicked out of the tournament.
    1. If a proctor is already present, Hazou will use his judgement about whether to rejoin or not based on the context of what's going on. If he does think it appropriate, he will go in and notify the proctor of what happened, again without implicating himself or ST Leaf, and if the proctor has any instructions for the group. Hazou may suggest that a break room be discretely prepared so Noburi could use his medical jutsu to tend to any civilian wounded (if there are any), provided he can get some chakra loaned to him.
      1. If the proctor tries to blame Hazou for the incident, he will point out that inciting a panic in a mixed crowd of civilians and ninja is an obviously bad idea due to several obvious reasons, such as civilian injuries. (hinting that maybe this isn't the best time for the proctor to quibble over this). Signal for others in the group to get involved in this effort, as they have their own social specializations that could help to get the proctor to move on.
  4. If able, work with Super Team Leaf to figure out a way to best take advantage of the new situation in order to maximize the amount of points that the group can get. See if you can get Nara to take a lead in planning, with Keiko's assistance to refine plans. Hazou will note that the proctors are likely to be on edge, so they shouldn't try anything too extreme.
    1. He does first suggest that the group may want to seek out a proctor and volunteer to help if there are any wounded civilians that need tending to. In particular, if Noburi can get some chakra loaned to him he could be discreetly taken to a break room to give on-site medical treatment.
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Again, feedback would be helpful.
 
Someone should notice what goo bombs look like from the outside:

"Oh shit, we're under attack"
*Goo pins large groups of people outside of cover, in easy view of any ranged attacks by outside parties*
 
Cariyaga said:
That's not what that means. Mild Consequence means -2 to all rolls for a day.
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Actually, it means -50% * Aspect Bonus. For example, your Taijutsu is 40, meaning an AB of +5. With a Mild consequence you would suffer a -3 penalty. On the other hand, your Stealth is 12 (AB of +2), so you would only suffer a -1 penalty.

Anderkent said:
Is there an exit on the other side of the mansion that we can use to get to the maze etc? I like this plan.
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Yes, there are doors on every side, as well as windows.

MMKII said:
@eaglejarl

Would you allow one or two FP spent for a majority of windows of the mansion to have been opened by the maids earlier to try to vent the heat (i.e windows to the hedge garden would be open on the other side)
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Sure, that's fine. 1FP seems reasonable. It's not literally every window, but a sufficient plenty of them that it won't matter much.


Also, although I'm loving the discussion, I would like to say:

Just remember, folks: If there's no winning plan then I can make Hazō do absolutely anything I want him to... Mwahahaa
 
MMKII said:
There is no action I can imagine us taking (that isn't some stupid blatant self sacrificial dramatic bullshit ) that would alleviate a drunk ninja riot
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We could kill most of them.

E: But seriously, this just screams "you haven't tried hard enough". We know more about crowd dynamics as a playerbase than the whole of Leaf put together. We have a bunch of interesting seals, many with interesting AoEs.
 
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Enjou said:
Still no feedback on my first round of possible changes. Here's another version with a few other changes (again, changes bolded):



Again, feedback would be helpful.
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See bolded below

MMKII said:
(After the round is over)

Guys IDK if hiding like a mole will work. We're on a porch/ front terrace of reasonable height and we'd have to dive down to the ground. The mist is covering us currently but it seems like it'd take too long to activate another misterators,dive,down AND use the jutsu.


It seems better just to spend fate points for an open window to sub through. I'd rather Hazou have to substitute/run through the mansion than potentially waste a round in his current location
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I support just going through the mansion at this point. We can sub in, run through and sub out or PMYF as our ninja deems necessary.

@Roomba has a good point though. I'm honestly torn.
 
Enjou said:
Proposed changes to my plan.

...

4. If able, work with Super Team Leaf to figure out a way to best take advantage of the new situation in order to maximize the amount of points that the group can get. See if you can get Nara to take a lead in planning, with Keiko's assistance to refine plans, using the excuse that you had inhaled a little of the alcohol and are a bit tipsy as an excuse
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I am strongly against this at present. We should brainstorm some and propose ideas ourselves, not foist this off on EJ to figure it out for us.
 
MMKII said:
See bolded below


I support just going through the mansion at this point. We can sub in, run through and sub out or PMYF as our ninja deems necessary.

@Roomba has a good point though. I'm honestly torn.
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When I talked about Hazou popping a misterator, going to the right (away from the proctors, perpendicular to the Cone of Booze), and doing HLaM, eaglejarl indicated that Hazou didn't think there'd be any problems with that.

As far as going into the mansion, my main concern is that we'll get caught that way. Has one of the searching proctors entered the mansion to search it? If so, us being there when everyone else is evacuated is a pretty clear implication we set off the Cone of Booze. After all...

EDIT - and even if a proctor coincidentally sees us coming out of the mansion, that could still implicate us.

Velorien said:
There was no possible way to disguise the origin point of the tipserator blast, but this way would make it seem like it had come from the inside of the mansion (though the maid had made that a lot more problematic by closing the door), or at the very least the pillar would prevent anyone from identifying him.
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Vecht said:
I am strongly against this at present. We should brainstorm some and propose ideas ourselves, not foist this off on EJ to figure it out for us.
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Admittedly, I kind of want the event over, and I don't want us to have to go through another round of planning for this event.
 
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Enjou said:
Hazou will get off the porch and onto dirt and use Hiding Like a Mole to go underground, without being noticed by the proctors and before the stampede hits him. He will either need to move forward into the mist, or move to the side opposite of where the proctors are, depending on his understanding of where everything is and what is least likely to get him spotted. He may also pop a Misterator if he deems it necessary to assist in his ability to escape undetected. He will use a Tunneler's Friend to allow himself to breathe while underground.
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The key difference between my idea of using substitute and then mole is that I think eating the penalty and having a higher chance of escaping undetected is worth more than having a bigger risk of being detected but having some CP to fight if needed. I don't think the Misterator will be enough to cover us better than getting away instantly.
But just to have a sanity check:
@eaglejarl Are we able to spend 1 FP to declare there being a piece of furniture on top of the earth that we can substitute to?

Enjou said:
From there, Hazou will move away from the zone quickly, with the goal of reaching the safe zone and Super Team Leaf. Hazou will use his knowledge of the grounds to determine an appropriate place to emerge without being spotted by other contestant. (the hedge maze, a conveniently placed bush near the marquee, etc.) Exclude the tunnel from before as a possibility, as your enemies have knowledge of it. If emerging close to the marquee, check briefly to see if proctors are already there questioning ST Leaf.
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I would strongly advise against coming out at the hedge maze if we want to avoid combat. We are isolated, low on chakra and don't want to make any noises that will get proctors on our case - and we know some genin are headed there. I would suggest emerging close to where STL is.
 
Tua said:
I would strongly advise against coming out at the hedge maze if we want to avoid combat. We are isolated, low on chakra and don't want to make any noises that will get proctors on our case - and we know some genin are headed there. I would suggest emerging close to where STL is.
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We're not trying to avoid combat. We're trying to avoid detection. But regardless, Hazou knows the grounds a lot better than any of us. He'll know a better location to exit from underground with low risk of detection than we're likely to.
 
Enjou said:
Given this update shouldn't require a super huge plan, I'll take a crack at putting up a plan.

[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

Goals: Get out of the stampede zone, avoid being disqualified, reach Super Team Leaf and update them of the situation

Means:
  1. Hazou will get off the porch and onto dirt and use Hiding Like a Mole to go underground, without being noticed by the proctors and before the stampede hits him. This will likely require moving forward into the Mist, which will help obscure him. He will use a Tunneler's Friend to allow himself to breath.
    1. If this doesn't work for whatever reason, pop a Misterator for a wider area and flee the old fashioned way.
  2. From there, Hazou will move away from the zone quickly, with the goal of reaching the safe zone and Super Team Leaf. Hazou will use his knowledge of the grounds to determine an appropriate place to emerge without being spotted by other contestant. (the hedge maze, a conveniently placed bush near the marquee, etc.) Exclude the tunnel from before as a possibility, as your enemies have knowledge of it. If emerging close to the marquee, check briefly to see if proctors are already there questioning ST Leaf.
  3. Once with Super Team Leaf, update them on the situation. Use hand signals to imply that proctors may be inbound or listening in. State the story in such a way that you're not directly implicated in anything, and to make it appear to any eavesdroppers that the ST Leaf noticed that the temperature change was a trap to herd people in, that they didn't allow themselves to be herded, and that you were sent in to do recon since you had a means to escape. Make it clear that you think whoever incited the panic with the explosive tag is an idiot, and that the likely mass disqualifications and possible civilian injuries that would result from that action could get anyone blamed for it kicked out of the tournament.
    1. If a proctor is already present, Hazou will use his judgement about whether to rejoin or not based on the context of what's going on. If he does think it appropriate, he will go in and notify the proctor of what happened, again without implicating himself or ST Leaf, and ask for instructions. Hazou may suggest that a break room be discretely prepared so Noburi could use his medical jutsu to tend to any civilian wounded, provided he can get some
      1. If the proctor tries to blame Hazou for the incident, he will point out that inciting a panic in a mixed crowd of civilians and ninja is an obviously bad idea due to several obvious reasons, including the losing enough points to get thrown out of the tournament. He'll point out that his group includes the Nara heir and a Mori bloodline user, and that it isn't plausible that two people that intelligent would condone such an idiotic idea, so it isn't really plausible you or your group is responsible.
  4. If able, work with Super Team Leaf to figure out a way to best take advantage of the new situation in order to maximize the amount of points that the group can get. See if you can get Nara to take a lead in planning, with Keiko's assistance to refine plans, using the excuse that you had inhaled a little of the alcohol and are a bit tipsy as an excuse.
    1. He does suggest that the group may want to volunteer Noburi to treat civilian injuries in a break room, to show initiative and leadership expected from chuunin, and just to help people. Though Hazou doesn't expect any injuries that are serious, given the crowd wasn't really that big.

Ok, I think that covers our bases? I'll be available later in the day to make edits based on suggestions. Other people feel free to use this as a basis for their own variants, if they wish to do so.
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Changes

1.0 Start the ball off by spending 1 FP to proc Hazou's "Formerly Marked for Death" aspect. I argue that being in between the (soon to be drunken) stampede and the proctors is sufficiently stressful and potentially calls for some serious improv. (This'll give us ahandful of extra points on any roles, might come in clutch).

1.1 "If this doesn't work for some reason" -> "If Hazou thinks this wont work for some reason."

If after 3.1.1. they are still bent on it maybe remind them of any political implications.

Two things about point 4:

1) Maybe suggest that we all do a game of charades or poker or something with people remaining. Harmless fucking games where we can drop verbal hints and mingle. Use the games as an opportunity to try to pick up any info on our contact. (Dont put the burden on EJ to figure this out wholesale, yknow).

2) We will use the buddy system for the rest of the event. This is the second time we have almost been killed in some way in the last 24 hours (not even). This is non negotiable.
 
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[X] Plan Running Like a Mole

@Enjou Thoughts on your plan:
Enjou said:
Hazou will get off the porch and onto dirt and use Hiding Like a Mole to go underground, without being noticed by the proctors and before the stampede hits him. This will likely require moving forward into the Mist, which will help obscure him. He will use a Tunneler's Friend to allow himself to breath.
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I would suggest adding "If needed for him to reach dirt while remaining concealed, Hazou may pop a Misterator." to this section.
Enjou said:
Once with Super Team Leaf, update them on the situation. Use hand signals to imply that proctors may be inbound or listening in. State the story in such a way that you're not directly implicated in anything, and to make it appear to any eavesdroppers that the ST Leaf noticed that the temperature change was a trap to herd people in, that they didn't allow themselves to be herded, and that you were sent in to do recon since you had a means to escape. Make it clear that you think whoever incited the panic with the explosive tag is an idiot, and that the likely mass disqualifications and possible civilian injuries that would result from that action could get anyone blamed for it kicked out of the tournament.
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DO NOT CALL IT A TEMPERATURE CHANGE IT IS A SPONTANEOUS HEAT WAVE

Edit: Maybe a sudden heat wave? IDK it's November IIRC there's no way it would ever be this hot in Mist and Hazou knows it.

CALLING IT A TEMPERATURE CHANGE IMPLIES THE ABILITY TO CHANGE THE TEMPERATURE TO A "COLD" SETTING
Enjou said:
If the proctor tries to blame Hazou for the incident, he will point out that inciting a panic in a mixed crowd of civilians and ninja is an obviously bad idea due to several obvious reasons, including the losing enough points to get thrown out of the tournament. He'll point out that his group includes the Nara heir and a Mori bloodline user, and that it isn't plausible that two people that intelligent would condone such an idiotic idea, so it isn't really plausible you or your group is responsible.
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Arguing that other people would point out the idiocy of X plan isn't a sufficient argument given that previous Leaf teams have done the exact same thing (read: Neji). I'd point out that none of us here are stupid enough to ignore advice, that we (our group) has been here the entire time, and (if they point out that we just showed) we were a scout sent in because we felt that our identity was the most compromised and because of our high-Stealth abilities (HLaM). Basically tell (mostly) the truth.
Adhoc vote count started by faflec on Jun 22, 2018 at 2:51 PM, finished with 695 posts and 16 votes.
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I'm suddenly worried about the ice. We've tried to sell ice before. Did we ever sell it in a place we can't admit to being? Will they use the existence of the ice to guess at EM?

Eh. Ice is a practical thing to have, it shouldn't be that suspicious.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
I'm suddenly worried about the ice. We've tried to sell ice before. Did we ever sell it in a place we can't admit to being? Will they use the existence of the ice to guess at EM?

Eh. Ice is a practical thing to have, it shouldn't be that suspicious.
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Cold Stone Killers? I'm not worried though, it's well-established that we have access to storage seals which timelock stuff. There's no way we wouldn't have iced beverages.
 
Immortal Lurker said:
I'm suddenly worried about the ice. We've tried to sell ice before. Did we ever sell it in a place we can't admit to being? Will they use the existence of the ice to guess at EM?

Eh. Ice is a practical thing to have, it shouldn't be that suspicious.
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It's only a problem if the proctors try to-

break the ice!
 
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