- Location
- Potato land
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
All according to keikaku.
- Location
- London
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They/Them
What's your feeling on, for example, The Belgariad by David Eddings?
I actually find that one the easiest to swallow, honestly. It's a mix of a bunch of stuff:
1. First, the Hokage probably comes from the school of thought that kids shouldn't be "coddled" and that enduring what he considers to be some mild hazing is all to the good is building character and toughening a kid up. It's an attitude that's common enough in the real world after all, especially before our modern era. Having the village fawn over Naruto as a saviour might make the kid grow up spoiled and soft, in his thinking. Certainly when you look at his somewhat strained relationship with his own son, Hiruzen doesn't come off as someone who thinks parenting is all about a loving relationship with a child.
2. It's not like Naruto suffered a lot (or any) physical abuse. He's healthy and in decent shape. Other than maybe some adult occasionally slapping him for being a little shit (see #1 for the Hokage's opinion on that), it doesn't seem like he was suffering a lot of direct abuse. People being uncomfortable around him and not wanting to talk to or interact with him is stuff it's hard to regulate.
3. All indications are that Naruto was an obnoxious brat as a child, a mix of many of the worst impulses you see in preteen boys. So it gets into a feedback loop where he senses someone doesn't like him, and retaliates with stupid and annoying pranks and taunts, which makes people like him less, which encourages him to behave worse.
Allowing for exaggeration in fiction, I think you can make Naruto's childhood mostly plausible if you're willing to stretch a little on motivations here and there.
Ideas:
-Check back in with Yakuza (obviously this may take too much time for exam but would demonstrate we think big, we are willing to give them a seat at the table, etc.)
a. Are they prepared to benefit from possible legalization? Share that we are planning an action they may confirm or change such a major policy? Do they have a strong preference as to which outcome, with no promise on our part?
b. We need a list of who would want to buy our currently-illegal product. They've been suppressing the trade (I believe) but such a list should be easy for the local boss without needing to check upstairs. That is, we can get this even if it takes take to long to do the planting plan. What are the going prices?
c. If they have been suppressing the trade, do they have a warehouse of it they want to get rid of? Rather than plant a small amount of drugs I would like to plant information that leads [someone] to a warehouse (or somewhat big supply). I don't see a major policy change based on one headmaster getting busted. The information trail could implicate the headmaster, but seems petty. Rather implicate another village and create a diplomatic crisis. Which village depends on what outcome we think Leaf/Yakuza/Allies would want.
d. Would they be interested in a separate scenario where they look like they are protecting the village and we amazingly protect our client at the same time?
-Also, are we prepared to get a big public sales/proctor sees us as instrumentally-helping victory based on the decision, either direction?
-De-emphasize Pangolins for now, probably including through finals, except for intel (find trap team, find lighting team). Intel, and our creative use/understanding/insight of it, is the most powerful differentiator of our team. I want pangolins for clever non-obvious things, not for something like a buff.
-Review our goals and align plans to them. That is, yes we really ought to become Chunin based on our experience but
0. convince QMs that everyone who makes the finals should be Chunin, and even some who go 'beat' earlier by a high end Chunin team; restricting promotion to just a few is not a viable strategy IRL or in verse. Or at least know better what the promotion criteria are. And if there are to be very few Chunin, and getting at least one of us is important, that affects our planing..and if we don't care about any of us becoming Chunin, then our hands are untied.
1. Do we care which of us is Chunin, if we have to help one in particular advance? Use clear communication jutsu.
2. show that Leaf is very strong across the board. We are advertising that Leaf should be the preferred choice for missions. Maybe that means helping other leaf teams, maybe without them even knowing it. It could mean showing publicly that one Leaf team will defend another Leaf team's client (we make internal agreement on being prepared if a situation happens; this could be part of the next team teams talk.
3. Stay under the radar. We don't want (shouldn't want) to demonstrate our extraordinary capabilities at all unless it is somehow disguised or re-directed as a coincidence or mis-attributed. So, e.g., any seals used should be readily-purchasable (shows we are rich) or low-level, unless that is our only shot at Chunin and Chunin is very important to our longer term plans.
4. Leaf relationships. Definitely spend extra time/points to share/trade intel each night with other exam groups: traps, what our client is trading, difficulties so far, etc. What we want: help finding Trap, taking out Lighting, potential buyers of our client's product. What we offer: besides the info mentioned, we could lend a team member for another team's particularly concerned transaction, help getting intel if another team is being targeted, use our second palanquin..
5. All three team members should be instrumental in a particular success during this phase if possible. Not yet sure how, but maybe water-infused chakra can hide our clients going in and out of stores. The clan can't just be known as a battery..
-Do more with our proctor. We have lots of info to work with. Show her/him that we have some of Mari's seduction training and that we are competent in it, even if junior. Ask if she has any enemies we should watch out for [e.g., details about past attempts, even if the story is made up]. Find out how much she has invested in making money in this exam. If money is very important, we can share potential buyers, prices. What if making 10x were possible, out of curiosity? If making money is not important at all, that is also important to know. Can we find out [how TBD] if she really does hate us, or is indifferent, disposed to be positive?
-Did we do anything with the other palanquin? Are other teams using them? did we corner the market - it was part of discussion I think?
-Check back in with Yakuza (obviously this may take too much time for exam but would demonstrate we think big, we are willing to give them a seat at the table, etc.)
a. Are they prepared to benefit from possible legalization? Share that we are planning an action they may confirm or change such a major policy? Do they have a strong preference as to which outcome, with no promise on our part?
b. We need a list of who would want to buy our currently-illegal product. They've been suppressing the trade (I believe) but such a list should be easy for the local boss without needing to check upstairs. That is, we can get this even if it takes take to long to do the planting plan. What are the going prices?
c. If they have been suppressing the trade, do they have a warehouse of it they want to get rid of? Rather than plant a small amount of drugs I would like to plant information that leads [someone] to a warehouse (or somewhat big supply). I don't see a major policy change based on one headmaster getting busted. The information trail could implicate the headmaster, but seems petty. Rather implicate another village and create a diplomatic crisis. Which village depends on what outcome we think Leaf/Yakuza/Allies would want.
d. Would they be interested in a separate scenario where they look like they are protecting the village and we amazingly protect our client at the same time?
-Also, are we prepared to get a big public sales/proctor sees us as instrumentally-helping victory based on the decision, either direction?
-De-emphasize Pangolins for now, probably including through finals, except for intel (find trap team, find lighting team). Intel, and our creative use/understanding/insight of it, is the most powerful differentiator of our team. I want pangolins for clever non-obvious things, not for something like a buff.
-Review our goals and align plans to them. That is, yes we really ought to become Chunin based on our experience but
0. convince QMs that everyone who makes the finals should be Chunin, and even some who go 'beat' earlier by a high end Chunin team; restricting promotion to just a few is not a viable strategy IRL or in verse. Or at least know better what the promotion criteria are. And if there are to be very few Chunin, and getting at least one of us is important, that affects our planing..and if we don't care about any of us becoming Chunin, then our hands are untied.
1. Do we care which of us is Chunin, if we have to help one in particular advance? Use clear communication jutsu.
2. show that Leaf is very strong across the board. We are advertising that Leaf should be the preferred choice for missions. Maybe that means helping other leaf teams, maybe without them even knowing it. It could mean showing publicly that one Leaf team will defend another Leaf team's client (we make internal agreement on being prepared if a situation happens; this could be part of the next team teams talk.
3. Stay under the radar. We don't want (shouldn't want) to demonstrate our extraordinary capabilities at all unless it is somehow disguised or re-directed as a coincidence or mis-attributed. So, e.g., any seals used should be readily-purchasable (shows we are rich) or low-level, unless that is our only shot at Chunin and Chunin is very important to our longer term plans.
4. Leaf relationships. Definitely spend extra time/points to share/trade intel each night with other exam groups: traps, what our client is trading, difficulties so far, etc. What we want: help finding Trap, taking out Lighting, potential buyers of our client's product. What we offer: besides the info mentioned, we could lend a team member for another team's particularly concerned transaction, help getting intel if another team is being targeted, use our second palanquin..
5. All three team members should be instrumental in a particular success during this phase if possible. Not yet sure how, but maybe water-infused chakra can hide our clients going in and out of stores. The clan can't just be known as a battery..
-Do more with our proctor. We have lots of info to work with. Show her/him that we have some of Mari's seduction training and that we are competent in it, even if junior. Ask if she has any enemies we should watch out for [e.g., details about past attempts, even if the story is made up]. Find out how much she has invested in making money in this exam. If money is very important, we can share potential buyers, prices. What if making 10x were possible, out of curiosity? If making money is not important at all, that is also important to know. Can we find out [how TBD] if she really does hate us, or is indifferent, disposed to be positive?
-Did we do anything with the other palanquin? Are other teams using them? did we corner the market - it was part of discussion I think?
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Fanon, I'm afraid. In canon, Danzō doesn't appear to be at all interested in Naruto.
Oh, who said Kaguya would be your final villain?
Goes against the fact that the Hokage deliberately steps in to talk to Iruka to turn him from Naruto's enemy to ally. Otherwise it's possible, but there's also no evidence to support it (and Kishimoto has not earned any benefit of the doubt from me regarding "things seeming contradictory but actually being well-thought-through"). Also, I wasn't aware of any canon information on the relationship between Hiruzen and Asuma.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I read it as a teenager, about *cough* years ago and remember quite liking it. The sequel series, The Mallorean, was a palette-swap money churn, which I wasn't too thrilled about, but The Belgariad was new ground to me.
From what I recall, gods in that series weren't omnipotent--Polgara was able to resist the evil God (whose name I do not recall) for a little while. As such, they made good antagonists.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Hello I wish to finally contribute to this thread.
I am confused on the obviousness of the bad points of this plan vs. Keiko's assessment of it.
Why did Keiko think it was a good idea?
She's has the Depression-flavoured Brain Freeze Demon as her advisor.
She's supposed to be good at thinking aboutbad terrible plans.
So, if she's alright with this plan, then I am to.
Let's prank our Aunt with some hidden drugs, but first consult our dad on how to go about it.
[X] Action Plan: LD with Jiraiya
I am confused on the obviousness of the bad points of this plan vs. Keiko's assessment of it.
Why did Keiko think it was a good idea?
She's has the Depression-flavoured Brain Freeze Demon as her advisor.
She's supposed to be good at thinking about
So, if she's alright with this plan, then I am to.
Let's prank our Aunt with some hidden drugs, but first consult our dad on how to go about it.
[X] Action Plan: LD with Jiraiya
- Location
- Yes.
Voting ended nearly 24 hours ago, bro
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Voting ended nearly 24 hours ago, bro
Oh well, another time maybe?
I was under the impression you wanted to to rationalize it for purposes of thought experiment, not assume "this is what Kishimoto meant all along".
Starting with the assumption, "This is what I want to be true; I'm going to find a way to get there that doesn't strain my suspension of belief too badly," is a very different thing from going, "I want to neutrally evaluate the evidence and see where it takes me." In fiction*, I always make sure to decide where I want to get before I start trying to go there.
*And in life!
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- Location
- Europe
Wait, hold on. Does that mean you don't know about Gai beating up Madara?
The Third wanted to prevent Naruto from filing a complaint to the village to return the Uzumaki compound to him because he should be the legal owner or that he wanted to have access to whatever house Minato/Kushina lived in? (I doubt that the fourth Hokage lived in an apartment) Just please write that CfG story.....
As a person that is true, but Danzou had the whole sharingan+wood release combination likely to control the nine-tails. So he probably cared about Naruto as a possible weapon that he could manipulate. (Tobi's speculation in Chapter 478)
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
Kaguya was affected by Naruto's Sexy no Jutsu, so it's all good.
- Location
- Norway
Then he wrote a third series, The Elenium, which was a remix money churn of the same, and a fourth series, The Tamuli, which was a palette-swap remix money churn of the same, followed by not a series but a fifth rehash of the same story compressed into a single (very large) book, The Redemption of Althalus. Whatever else one may say about the man, he's consistent.
At least I found them at the library rather than paying five times over.
- Location
- Potato land
I say this as someone very willing to take the risk of the Lizardbreath Prank: This is all way too risky. The reason we are at all willing to even entertain this idea is that we have a target whose downfall will not cause a political crisis and who therefore doesn't have security we can't bypass; but who is nonetheless important enough that the Mizukage will feel compelled to act in the wake of them being outed as a drug user. Part of the reason this can work is that nobody sane will look at the result and say "Yes, this was totally an attempt to affect Mist's drug policy". Attempting to implicate a whole village is way above our paygrade right now.
We don't care about the Chuunin rank, Jiraiya can give us a field promotion whenever he wants. What we care about is representing the clan well, showing off our power, and therefore improving Jiraiya's position in the ongoing negotiations with Mist, and internally in Leaf. The latter is especially important in the event that Jiraiya fails to recover Naruto in time, and his Hokageship becomes very uncertain. As such, our primary objective is reaching the tournament and putting on a good show there.
Therefore, we do want to show off our extraordinary abilities for maximum effect. There's perhaps an argument in favor of keeping Pangolin jutsu secret, but our seal-based tricks aren't important enough to bother hiding. Especially given that they're relatively easy to obfuscate.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
The youthfulness of that scene blazes bright inside every one of us. As such, I could not help but know about it.
Chapter 170: There's (Going to Be) Something Off about Lizardbreath....
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Better yet," Noburi said, "I've got just the right thing for him: essence of betel nut."
Hazō raised an eyebrow. "Betel nut?"
"Yeah," Noburi said, smiling cruelly. "Think about it: assume he actually was taking drugs. What would he be taking? Not a hallucinogen, not if he's taking it at the Academy. Not a feel-good—if they're strong enough to give you much of a high then they leave you lethargic and fuzzy-headed, something else he couldn't afford at work. No, he'd be taking something to help him get through the day, right? So, stimulants. Everyone drinks tea to get a lift, but maybe he needs something stronger. Unfortunately, his latest dose was a hotshot...poor quality control, no doubt. The drug mixer was careless, used a little too much betel nut meat in his wash, ended up with something that would give a chakra panther heart palpitations. Lizardbreath takes some, he starts getting the sweats, can't sit still, needs to be moving. Gets him out of his office and rushing around the building. Walking too fast, talking too fast and too loud, jumpy and angry. The effect will come on over a few minutes as it gets digested. With the right dose, when the stuff hits peak intensity it should send him into a full-on fit of paranoia. A very visible fit of paranoia. Oh, and best of all: the stuff has mild aphrodisiac properties, so he might even get himself in trouble with some of the other teachers."
"You have this stuff on you?"
Noburi nodded. "Sure. It's a basic part of any medkit. In small doses it's no problem, commonly used as a stimulant to get wounded or chakra-exhausted ninja back on their feet so they can run."
"You have not yet mentioned side effects," Keiko said. "What risks would the concentrate pose?
"Well..." Noburi looked uncomfortable. "Nothing serious. Maybe a little vomiting, some diarrhea, chest pain, heart attack, death, shortness of breath, that kind of thing...."
Keiko fixed him with a gimlet eye. "I seem to recall something about causing fatalities being discouraged under the Exam rules."
"Look, it's not a problem, okay?" Noburi snapped. "That's only if you take a massive overdose. I just won't give him that much."
"How would we administer it?" Hazō asked, interjecting himself without any intent to derail the incipient argument, nope nope nope.
"It'll dissolve in alchohol. We just need to spike his booze or coat the inside of his mugs. The oil is a light yellow and tastes smokey, but the alcohol will cover a lot of that."
"Okay, so that part of the plan seems feasible," Hazō said. "What about political consequences? If we did this, would it be likely to have any sort of fallout on Mist, Leaf, or the alliance?"
Both of the boys looked at Keiko. She looked at them in disgusted betrayal. "Really?"
"Seems like a reasonable question?"
She sighed. "Politics is difficult to model. Obviously, so long as we are not caught there will be no political consequences. If we are caught on the way in to plant the drugs then it would most likely be seen as a failed prank. It would be an embarrassment to Jiraiya that we would do such a thing, and a greater embarrassment that we were caught. If we are caught after Headmaster Ichigaya drinks the stimulants, then any injury or property damage that he inflicts, including to himself, will be treated as collateral damage that we caused. The only good news is that he is not a contestant, so when we are inevitably caught and convicted, I doubt they will be able to claim that we motivated another team to cause collateral damage. On the other hand, if Noburi miscalculates the dose and the Headmaster dies then it will be treated as us causing a fatality during this event—Leaf's bond will be forfeit and all Leaf contestants will be ejected from Mist. "
"Let's avoid that last one."
"Don't worry, I'll be careful."
"What about getting a message to Jiraiya via pangolin?" Hazō asked, looking around quickly before he spoke and then lowering his voice. "I could see this being the sort of bold stroke he'd approve of—shoot, I could even imagine him outing us himself, once the Exams are over. It would give him a hell of a political windfall to be able to say that Leaf in general, and his kids in particular, are such good ninja that just three us were able to shape national policy."
"Are we seriously going forward with this feather-brained idea?"
"Hell yeah!" said Noburi, grinning. "C'mon, you know you want to see Old Lizardbreath get his."
Keiko hesitated before grimacing and admitting, "It would be...not entirely unsatisfying."
"So, are we doing this?" The expression on Noburi's face made clear that this was less of a question and more of a playground taunt.
Keiko glowered at him. "Very well. Yes, sending a message to Jiraiya is a good idea. It can be done securely, and it will offer him an opportunity to either capitalize on our success or order us not to commence. He will be checking in at sundown, so we have about three hours to plan. I am unsure what 'planning' would consist of—we cannot afford to be seen on the grounds of the Academy while wearing our bandanas, meaning that the only practical scheme will be to sneak in after hours without being seen."
"Noburi, can you have the drugs ready by then?" Hazō asked.
Noburi nodded. "No problem. I've got a bunch of the oil in a vial. I'll measure some of it out and then whoever goes in just pours the whole amount in. Which brings us to the real question: who's going in? Two of us need to stay with the old bat."
Hazō was irritated but utterly unsurprised when two pairs of eyes locked on him.
"Okay," he said. "As to who to send in, it seems to me like the logical choice is—"
Sorry this is short; family ate much of my day today. @Velorien will continue from here, and will be responsible for XP and FP awards.
Vote time! What to do now? You can:
- Do nothing (default option): If there is no relevant voting then Keiko will attempt the burglary tonight, since in an emergency she can have herself reverse-summoned to the Seventh Path in order to temporarily avoid detection. (Note that she must go back to the same place and cannot tell what's happening there, so this is something of a desperation tactic.)
- Suggest that either Hazō or Noburi should be the one to go in. On the one hand, Hazō has Living Roots which might let him detect people coming sooner. On the other, Noburi is actually the medic.
- Hazō's common sense says that sending a pangolin in alone would be unwise, since if one was caught it would instantly reveal that it was your team. If there are at least 15 votes in favor of overriding this opinion then you may do so.
- You can rethink the whole idea and not go forward with it, in which case you should suggest what you want to do instead.
- Write-in.
Voting ends on Wednesday, March 28, 2018, at 12pm London time.
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- Location
- Yes.
@eaglejarl @Velorien Would it be alright if the next plan says basically "do the prank, but only if Jiraiya approves of it"?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
More so than any of us being caught?
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Well, Nobs- you ain't getting a job in advertisement any time soon.
Also, I realized- dragon is a lizard, and considering how much alcohol he drinks, we could probably set his breath on fire.
Also, dragons hoard mounds of gold. Good whiskey is close to golden, right?
Also, we should probably keep the dosage on the low side- better for the prank to not work out than to kill the guy.
Can a Pangolin dispel itself anyway? As a innate ability or simply by stabbing itself?
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
I think that we can trust med boy to get the dosage right.
- Location
- Yes.
Should we assume Jiraiya will say "Go for it."? Because otherwise we design a plan, wait for the green light, get a red light, and sit quietly continuing the vanilla event.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I worry about the container to which the oil will be applied.
Is it going to be a glass or a bottle?
Is LizardBreath going to pour himself full glass or maybe halfway?
How much is he going to drink overall?
I know he's competent, but I don't know what variables he's playing with here.
If he has any doubts about dosage, I suggest for him to keep to the lower side.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien Does Panashe know henge? How tall is she? Could we disguise that she was a pangolin by wearing a cloak over her and if she's caught dispelling as if she was a clone?