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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Maybe something like X common born ninja representative per Y clans, because once we integrate Mist we double in size and those guys want to have their own union.
 
Also, I'd like to point out that the Gouketsu qualify as a "clan techniques" clan, what with the Pangolin techniques, which we were told not to teach to anyone outside our clan.
 
Cariyaga said:
I mean... yes? Yes. You'd have a hell of a time convincing them to, though.

The thing is... it would actually increase these clans' power to do that.
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It would help the poor people, but it would also make the Walton family effectively cease to exist. Similarly, a clan simply couldn't integrate a large influx of outsiders without breaking apart. Carefully picked candidates? Sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if they already do so via marriage.

On the other hand, if an organization designed to handle these kinds of problems, like a Hidden Village, wanted to proliferate the combined knowledge of, say, the Nara clan, it absolutely could.
 
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The Waltons don't benefit from having more people they need to share their wealth between. Shikaku does benefit from having more shadow manipulators awaiting his orders.

I can see how a sudden influx of foreigners would be a cultural destabiliser, but there's got to be a better solution than "occasionally marry outside the clan". Like, "take in 10% of your clan's current population every two years", maybe?
 
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MadScientist said:
The Waltons don't benefit from having more people they need to share their wealth between. Shikaku does benefit from having more shadow manipulators awaiting his orders.

I can see how a sudden influx of foreigners would be a cultural destabiliser, but there's got to be a better solution than "occasionally marry outside the clan". Like, "take in 10% of your clan's current population every two years", maybe?
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FWIW, that rate would result in intakes becoming a majority in ~16 years, depending on rounding. I suspect that might be perceived as still overly rapid and result in backlash.
 
Roomba said:
On a related note, isn't it bizarre to hear this "We're superior" rhetoric from two people with pervasive self-esteem issues? We should remind Keiko of this the next time she's feeling worthless.
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I'll point out that both of them have had a lot of their self-esteem problems tied directly to being seen only as members of their clan - Noburi with the barrel in particular, but Keiko feeling like the only thing she contributes is the Frozen Skein and anyone of her clan could do that fits, too.

E: In fact, thinking about it more, I think that's probably part of why they're so pro-clan; having felt they only provide value because of their clan status, they learned to value the clan a great deal, and even now they still think of it as incredibly important.
 
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MadScientist said:
The Waltons don't benefit from having more people they need to share their wealth between. Shikaku does benefit from having more shadow manipulators awaiting his orders.

I can see how a sudden influx of foreigners would be a cultural destabiliser, but there's got to be a better solution than "occasionally marry outside the clan". Like, "take in 10% of your clan's current population every two years", maybe?
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Cultural incompatibility isn't even the biggest problem - trust is. A normal clan member is tightly bound to the clan, by ties of blood, familial affection, tradition, culture, and mutual support. A fresh inductee is none of these, and therefore cannot be trusted with secrets quite so easily. Using the more hip terminology, the penalty for defection is much lower for the new people, and only slowly increases with time.

This is the reason marriage is the primary way a clan adopts outsiders - it's a strong legal and familial bond, which gives some upfront guarantees.
 
Roomba said:
Cultural incompatibility isn't even the biggest problem - trust is. A normal clan member is tightly bound to the clan, by ties of blood, familial affection, tradition, culture, and mutual support. A fresh inductee is none of these, and therefore cannot be trusted with secrets quite so easily. Using the more hip terminology, the penalty for defection is much lower for the new people, and only slowly increases with time.

This is the reason marriage is the primary way a clan adopts outsiders - it's a strong legal and familial bond, which gives some upfront guarantees.
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Then maybe you don't teach them any secrets until they've been assimilating into the clan for long enough to start bringing the next lot in.
 
Might I suggest that what you're looking for might be patronage?

It's the middle ground between adoption into the clan and being fully outside. The clan basically sponsors those particular clanless ninja and is responsible for taking their side in disputes, while not sharing their secrets or requiring of them all the duties of a clan member later.

That said, is that even what you want to encourage? The great thing about clanless ninja is that they can have their primary loyalty be to their village rather than their clan. Why do you want to make clans more powerful?
 
"Getting rid of the clans" is likely impossible, given that their equivalents exist in the most egalitarian societies we've managed to establish, without having to worry about chakra bullshit screwing everything up. Reducing their influence and improving the relative situation of clanless ninja is likely something that will happen naturally as the village system matures.

Hazou is being naive in thinking he can just bulldoze the system, at least through normal means - no telling what would be possible if we manage to diplomance the Sage or the chakra SI. We can, however, hurry the process of clan weakening up a bit, and maybe help our other goals along at the same time.
 
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It's nice eaglejarl will get to write the Yakuza interaction, since he specifically said he was looking forward to that.

Why do you think the yakuza are allowed to exist, anyway? Of course there will always be crime, but as paranoid as ninjas are about things why in the world would they allow an international criminal syndicate to exist? Not just exist in civilian towns, which you could sort of see, but even in actual hidden villages?

My best explanation is that much like in the real world, the yakuza make the argument that they can control and tame crime and that they never interfere with anyone who doesn't choose to approach them first and voluntarily go to one of their gambling houses, or brothels, or ask for a loan.

I think it's going to be very interesting so see how the GMs interpret them. I'm not sure we'l get anywhere, but I think it'll end up having been worth a try and maybe learn a little about how the world really works.
 
Briefvoice said:
Why do you think the yakuza are allowed to exist, anyway? Of course there will always be crime, but as paranoid as ninjas are about things why in the world would they allow an international criminal syndicate to exist? Not just exist in civilian towns, which you could sort of see, but even in actual hidden villages?
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As a point of note, as far as the common knowledge available to Hazō goes, the yakuza are not a monolithic group but a series of territorial organisations united by a common culture and modus operandi. There could be a greater authority coordinating their actions, but if so, the fact is not publicly known.
 
Briefvoice said:
It's nice eaglejarl will get to write the Yakuza interaction, since he specifically said he was looking forward to that.

Why do you think the yakuza are allowed to exist, anyway? Of course there will always be crime, but as paranoid as ninjas are about things why in the world would they allow an international criminal syndicate to exist? Not just exist in civilian towns, which you could sort of see, but even in actual hidden villages?

My best explanation is that much like in the real world, the yakuza make the argument that they can control and tame crime and that they never interfere with anyone who doesn't choose to approach them first and voluntarily go to one of their gambling houses, or brothels, or ask for a loan.

I think it's going to be very interesting so see how the GMs interpret them. I'm not sure we'l get anywhere, but I think it'll end up having been worth a try and maybe learn a little about how the world really works.
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Personally I think they're allowed to exist because the ninjas use yakuza as grunts for all their less-than-clean activity. Like the Daimyo.
 
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