Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Thoughts on how much chakra Hazou "should" use in a fight
Hazou has only 10 in Chakra Reserves, for 100 chakra points. I'm thinking he needs more, because, he has a number of recently acquired pangolin jutsu that are good but expensive, as well as some old jutsu that are actually pretty costly in the new system. To really understand how much chakra he might spend in a fight, though, we need to think about what he might actually be casting in a "typical" fight (that is, one where he suspects his opponent is a danger to him but is not so overwhelming he is fleeing immediately).
Let's look at them and their costs to try and figure out how much chakra Hazou will spend in a typical fight.
1. MEW - 59 CP (if used in combat). Costs a standard action to cast, but can be done off-turn reflexively. Effect is basically to produce a perfect block against one attack as Hazou can create the wall in front of himself so it takes the hit rather than him.
Prognosis: Hazou will likely use this primarily in fights where his action is less valuable than that of an opponent; ie the team is fighting a special jonin or better and Hazou figures he'll trade his action making a wall to stop one of the enemy's attacks.
2. Substitution - 14 CP. Hazou has it at level 7, meaning it will add +3 to his Athletics roll to defend when he uses it as part of a defense.
Prognosis: Hazou will likely use this about once a fight.
3. Hiding Like a Mole - 22CP. This is a "perfect escape" from many (but not all) ninja. However it doesn't let you go that far. I can see circumstances where Hazou is caught alone where he uses it to go below ground and instead of fleeing, uses his time underground to put up some armor jutsu before resurfacing. If his team is there it's another matter... would probably not abandon them for several rounds like that.
Prognosis: I could see this as a tactic during the Tournament, if Hazou gets there. First round, Hiding Like a Mole, spend his time underground putting up Ghost Scales and Earth Armor, then surface to fight. If so, though, that's a lot of chakra.
4. Pangolin Conditioning - Effectively costless... basically reduce his maximum chakra by 1 when he has it on, as the maintenance cost is roughly counterbalanced by chakra recovery rate.
Prognosis: Hazou will have it up pretty much all the time for an ablative Armor 2 in return for a -1 to physical rolls.
5. Living Roots - 26 CP. Mostly use out of combat, though there are interesting synergies with Hiding Like a Mole if Hazou really has chakra to burn.
Prognosis: Rarely used in combat.
6. Ghost Scales - 27 CP. Currently have 10 ranks, for a +2 Aspect Bonus. Grants +2 armor, +2 to taijutsu; armor is ablative. Takes a standard action to cast and lasts one minute.
Prognosis: Takes an action to put up, so I'm not sure Hazou will have the time to do so in many fights. Unlikely he will use both this and Earth armor.
7. Earth Armor - 19 CP. Currently have 1 rank for a +1 Aspect Bonus. Grants +1 non-ablative armor, +3 to Physique, and -1 to Athletics. Takes a standard action to cast and lasts for half a minute.
Prognosis: Very nice... but again, Hazou is ceding an action to cast it.
8. Pantokrator's Hammer - 12 CP. Currently have 1 rank. Gain the Aspect "Power of the Pangolin" and (Effect) tags on the Aspect. Supplemental action to cast. Hazou has 37 in Athletics (+4 Aspect bonus) and 40 in Taijutsu (+5 Aspect Bonus), meaning a casting is worth a +4 or +5 CM for one roll.
Prognosis; Cheap and deadly, I anticipate that Hazou will use this in most every fight, at least once per round. Not compatible with chakra boost. Right now it's effectively only usable on one roll (offensive or defensive) when you cast it.
9. Chakra Boost - 25 CP (at maximum boost). Can get a +5 on physical rolls for no action. Note that since it lasts all round (Unlike PH), you get the bonus on both an attack action and on your defense roll, or potentially multiple defense rolls if attacked multiple times in a round.
Of all these, PH is the only one that's probably going to get used every single round if Hazou has a supplemental action to spare. Priority should be to buy it up to rank 10 as soon as possible for the second tag while only having a 16 CP cost. Note though that it would still be worthwhile to buy it up to rank 20 or even rank 30. Hazou can typically count on making one attack roll and at least one defensive roll each round (unless his attack roll finished the fight). Ideally he wants 4 free tags, so that he can spend 2 on the attack and then 2 on his defensive roll. That's when the jutsu's disadvantage compared to chakra boost is almost completely eliminated.
But right now, let's say a "typical" fight lasts three rounds (lasting that long because Hazou spends the first action on his armor jutsu). Assume that Hazou is not trying to hide any of his jutsu.
Turn 1 - Hazou spends his action putting up Ghost Scales (27 CP) and then a supplemental action to activate Pantokrator's Hammer (12CP) (he will not be able to attack, but now it is usable for defense rolls).
Assume he takes an attack and dodges/tanks it.
Turn 2 - Hazou uses a supplemental action to activate PH (12 CP). He may also use a second supplemental action to use Substitution (14 CP).
Assume he takes an attack and dodges/tanks it.
Turn 3 - Hazou uses a supplemental action to activate PH (12 CP) and then lands an attack that finishes the fight.
Total chakra used during the fight... about 77CP or 3/4 of his total. Hope Noburi is around to refill him!
Thoughts? If fighting multiple opponents, he might use Earth Armor instead.
Hazou has only 10 in Chakra Reserves, for 100 chakra points. I'm thinking he needs more, because, he has a number of recently acquired pangolin jutsu that are good but expensive, as well as some old jutsu that are actually pretty costly in the new system. To really understand how much chakra he might spend in a fight, though, we need to think about what he might actually be casting in a "typical" fight (that is, one where he suspects his opponent is a danger to him but is not so overwhelming he is fleeing immediately).
Let's look at them and their costs to try and figure out how much chakra Hazou will spend in a typical fight.
1. MEW - 59 CP (if used in combat). Costs a standard action to cast, but can be done off-turn reflexively. Effect is basically to produce a perfect block against one attack as Hazou can create the wall in front of himself so it takes the hit rather than him.
Prognosis: Hazou will likely use this primarily in fights where his action is less valuable than that of an opponent; ie the team is fighting a special jonin or better and Hazou figures he'll trade his action making a wall to stop one of the enemy's attacks.
2. Substitution - 14 CP. Hazou has it at level 7, meaning it will add +3 to his Athletics roll to defend when he uses it as part of a defense.
Prognosis: Hazou will likely use this about once a fight.
3. Hiding Like a Mole - 22CP. This is a "perfect escape" from many (but not all) ninja. However it doesn't let you go that far. I can see circumstances where Hazou is caught alone where he uses it to go below ground and instead of fleeing, uses his time underground to put up some armor jutsu before resurfacing. If his team is there it's another matter... would probably not abandon them for several rounds like that.
Prognosis: I could see this as a tactic during the Tournament, if Hazou gets there. First round, Hiding Like a Mole, spend his time underground putting up Ghost Scales and Earth Armor, then surface to fight. If so, though, that's a lot of chakra.
4. Pangolin Conditioning - Effectively costless... basically reduce his maximum chakra by 1 when he has it on, as the maintenance cost is roughly counterbalanced by chakra recovery rate.
Prognosis: Hazou will have it up pretty much all the time for an ablative Armor 2 in return for a -1 to physical rolls.
5. Living Roots - 26 CP. Mostly use out of combat, though there are interesting synergies with Hiding Like a Mole if Hazou really has chakra to burn.
Prognosis: Rarely used in combat.
6. Ghost Scales - 27 CP. Currently have 10 ranks, for a +2 Aspect Bonus. Grants +2 armor, +2 to taijutsu; armor is ablative. Takes a standard action to cast and lasts one minute.
Prognosis: Takes an action to put up, so I'm not sure Hazou will have the time to do so in many fights. Unlikely he will use both this and Earth armor.
7. Earth Armor - 19 CP. Currently have 1 rank for a +1 Aspect Bonus. Grants +1 non-ablative armor, +3 to Physique, and -1 to Athletics. Takes a standard action to cast and lasts for half a minute.
Prognosis: Very nice... but again, Hazou is ceding an action to cast it.
8. Pantokrator's Hammer - 12 CP. Currently have 1 rank. Gain the Aspect "Power of the Pangolin" and (Effect) tags on the Aspect. Supplemental action to cast. Hazou has 37 in Athletics (+4 Aspect bonus) and 40 in Taijutsu (+5 Aspect Bonus), meaning a casting is worth a +4 or +5 CM for one roll.
Prognosis; Cheap and deadly, I anticipate that Hazou will use this in most every fight, at least once per round. Not compatible with chakra boost. Right now it's effectively only usable on one roll (offensive or defensive) when you cast it.
9. Chakra Boost - 25 CP (at maximum boost). Can get a +5 on physical rolls for no action. Note that since it lasts all round (Unlike PH), you get the bonus on both an attack action and on your defense roll, or potentially multiple defense rolls if attacked multiple times in a round.
Of all these, PH is the only one that's probably going to get used every single round if Hazou has a supplemental action to spare. Priority should be to buy it up to rank 10 as soon as possible for the second tag while only having a 16 CP cost. Note though that it would still be worthwhile to buy it up to rank 20 or even rank 30. Hazou can typically count on making one attack roll and at least one defensive roll each round (unless his attack roll finished the fight). Ideally he wants 4 free tags, so that he can spend 2 on the attack and then 2 on his defensive roll. That's when the jutsu's disadvantage compared to chakra boost is almost completely eliminated.
But right now, let's say a "typical" fight lasts three rounds (lasting that long because Hazou spends the first action on his armor jutsu). Assume that Hazou is not trying to hide any of his jutsu.
Turn 1 - Hazou spends his action putting up Ghost Scales (27 CP) and then a supplemental action to activate Pantokrator's Hammer (12CP) (he will not be able to attack, but now it is usable for defense rolls).
Assume he takes an attack and dodges/tanks it.
Turn 2 - Hazou uses a supplemental action to activate PH (12 CP). He may also use a second supplemental action to use Substitution (14 CP).
Assume he takes an attack and dodges/tanks it.
Turn 3 - Hazou uses a supplemental action to activate PH (12 CP) and then lands an attack that finishes the fight.
Total chakra used during the fight... about 77CP or 3/4 of his total. Hope Noburi is around to refill him!
Thoughts? If fighting multiple opponents, he might use Earth Armor instead.
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Can always tone things down a bit. The +3 from Pangolin Gauntlets is a pretty big bonus for an item without major downsides, that we essentially got for free, for instance.
How does Explosion Master work? Does it roll Kagome's Trapmaking? I'd also assume that you can't use it simultaneously with Roki, not sure if you're taking that into account.
How does Explosion Master work? Does it roll Kagome's Trapmaking? I'd also assume that you can't use it simultaneously with Roki, not sure if you're taking that into account.
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It's a fighting style, don't know what skill it uses. It stacks with Youthful Fist, so if it doesn't stack with Roki then we just have Hazou learn Youthful Fist and use that instead because 2 styles > 1 style.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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Explosion Master allows one to use his blast rings, which allow one to roll taijutsu + 6 (or 3) with a Weapon value of 1 or 2, in addition to being a fighting style.
Jiraiya should able to tell us.
Cariyaga
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No, I'm sure Hazou or Keiko knows, I just suspect they haven't internalized "these things the team throws around like candy are worth a mid-sized town"
So can someone answer me a question? What the hell are Pangolin Gauntlets, and what is it about them that provides a +3 bonus that humans can't produce by making human gauntlets? What do they look like? How can they provide a +3 bonus to PUNCH and yet not interfere with the finger dexterity required to produce seals?
Cause if the QMs are looking for something to dump/retcon to reduce bonus stacking, I suspect they should be first on the list. They seem to be this "thing" that exists outside the normal mechanics of what can grant bonuses.
Cause if the QMs are looking for something to dump/retcon to reduce bonus stacking, I suspect they should be first on the list. They seem to be this "thing" that exists outside the normal mechanics of what can grant bonuses.
Wolverine claws on armour-fists that the pangolins made. Gave to Hazou as a birthday present. IIRC, according to the QMs they're made of handwavium alloy that grants better combat power than human craftsmanship.
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They couldn't have said it was made out of chakra metal, like what Sarutobi Asuma uses?
I mean, that could actually be another fix. Say they're made from chakra metal, which is more common on the Seventh Path, and that using them costs X CP per round to give the +3 bonus.
It says in the rules document that it uses Craft (Trapmaking), a skill that Hazou has zero ranks in. Craft (Trapmaking) is opposed by Athletics, a skill that every ninja has approximately "every rank I can buy" in, so Explosion Master probably doesn't even succeed a lot of the time.
Add to that, a new Martial Arts stunt takes 100xp to buy, and it's not exactly at the top of my priority list.
If they're made out of extremely rare chakra metal, that would make sense to me. Probably, yes, costing some extra CP per round... and also being extremely attractive targets for theft the moment anyone knows Hazou has them.
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EDIT: Could also retcon the gauntlets to be primarily defensive. A small bonus to defensive Taijutsu rolls, and a larger bonus against weapons, maybe? Makes sense that having steel on your hands would let you deflect both melee weapons and projectiles better.
Hm, according to the current rules doc, Combat Styles have unified mechanics: you roll a specified skill + Aspect Bonus vs a specified skill of your opponent, and give them an Aspect if you succeed. For example, Roki uses Deceit vs Deceit.
For Explosion Master, it's Craftsmanship(Trapbuilding) vs Athetics, which begs the question: Whose Trapbuilding do we roll? Kagome's or the user's?
The rules also say nothing about stacking combat styles.
Hm, according to the current rules doc, Combat Styles have unified mechanics: you roll a specified skill + Aspect Bonus vs a specified skill of your opponent, and give them an Aspect if you succeed. For example, Roki uses Deceit vs Deceit.
For Explosion Master, it's Craftsmanship(Trapbuilding) vs Athetics, which begs the question: Whose Trapbuilding do we roll? Kagome's or the user's?
The rules also say nothing about stacking combat styles.
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Cariyaga
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It's not combat styles that would be stacked there. It's Blast Rings and Macerators. You need to know Explosion Master to use Blast Rings.
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Also tagging @eaglejarl @OliWhail Does this apply only to the +3 from macerator rings or the entire effect (e.g., the Stress bonus)?
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So let's see...
Hazou is PUNCHING but concealing his armor jutsu and not showing off his super-valuable chakra weapon that most ninjas would kill (that is not hyperbole) to own
PUNCHING: 40 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) 5 (Roki Aspect Bonus) + 5 (1 x Aspect Bonus from Pantokrator's Hammer) - 1 (Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu) = 52
DODGING WITH ATHLETICS: 37 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) - 1 (Conditioning Jutsu) = 39 w/ 2 ablative armor
Hazou is PUNCHING and going all-in with his best stuff
PUNCHING:40 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) 5 (Roki Aspect Bonus) + 5 (1 x Aspect Bonus from Pantokrator's Hammer) - 1 (Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu) +2 Ghost Scales + 3 Valuable Chakra Metal Pangolin Gauntlets = 57
DODGING WITH ATHLETICS: 37 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) - 1 (Conditioning Jutsu) = 39 w/ 4 ablative armor
Hazou has a lot more offense than defense, though the armor skews it a little. He can take more hits than it seems like.
Hazou is PUNCHING but concealing his armor jutsu and not showing off his super-valuable chakra weapon that most ninjas would kill (that is not hyperbole) to own
PUNCHING: 40 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) 5 (Roki Aspect Bonus) + 5 (1 x Aspect Bonus from Pantokrator's Hammer) - 1 (Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu) = 52
DODGING WITH ATHLETICS: 37 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) - 1 (Conditioning Jutsu) = 39 w/ 2 ablative armor
Hazou is PUNCHING and going all-in with his best stuff
PUNCHING:40 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) 5 (Roki Aspect Bonus) + 5 (1 x Aspect Bonus from Pantokrator's Hammer) - 1 (Pangolin Conditioning Jutsu) +2 Ghost Scales + 3 Valuable Chakra Metal Pangolin Gauntlets = 57
DODGING WITH ATHLETICS: 37 (base) + 3 (Iron Nerve) - 1 (Conditioning Jutsu) = 39 w/ 4 ablative armor
Hazou has a lot more offense than defense, though the armor skews it a little. He can take more hits than it seems like.
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I think this will need review. We'll get back to you.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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We should get Hazou a "springboard rock out of the ground to send him flying" type doton technique.
In that case he would still be using the rings, so would still have +3.
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That... seems a bit strange. I know that the intent was for Akane to be able to use her rings with her own Combat Style, but the crunch is in conflict with the fluff here. If the rings require a special fighting style to use safely, then one shouldn't be able to use them to their full effectiveness with a different style just because they know Explosion Master.
Adding on another AB for PH10, and including rings in the first, but not second, totals gives:
Secrecy -> 60
All-out -> 62
If the QMs decide gauntlets stack with rings, make that
All-out -> 65
Secrecy -> 60
All-out -> 62
If the QMs decide gauntlets stack with rings, make that
All-out -> 65
Those are basically custom seals made by Kagome*, and I do not see them on our current equipment list for seals. It might even take the Explosion-Master Fighting Style to use them... it's not clear where the rules change lands on that. Nor am I clear on how many rounds of 'attacks' you can get from one set of rings. One per finger? Or does it take a hand's worth to create a single attack? Certainly they must have some sort of limit, and only Kagome can make more of them.
*Note that this proves that Kagome is full of shit when he claims never to have put seals on anything but sealing paper. Those explosion rings must be a custom "seal-on-object" effect he lovingly invented with much sealing research.
On another topic....
Hazou XP Priorities (In my opinion)
1. Buy Pantokrator's Hammer from rank 1 to rank 10. (54 xp) -- An additional +5 on every PUNCH is well worth it in my opinion.
2. Buy Chakra Reserves up from 10 to 15. (
See where he is after that... it might be time to buy up Sealing another few ranks.
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Not explosive rings, macerator rings.
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Chakra Reserves costs 2 times normal XP, so he'd have to pay 130XP instead of 65XP.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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Ah, got it. Solid shot macerators still not on the current equipment list, oddly enough, but Hazou should be able to make some easily enough when there's downtime.
I can see why they wouldn't stack with gauntlets, incidentally. You're not punching with them, so much as using them as a kind of sawed-off shotgun with the taijutsu skill used because of the extreme close range. Seems logical enough.