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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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eaglejarl said:
Keiko shook her head. "No. There is no way that a pangolin could locate a single human that she's never smelled before in a city this size, even if Jiraiya is in one of the locations we would anticipate. Furthermore, he is undoubtedly spending all his time in meetings with either the Mizukage or other important figures. Those people will have offices on upper floors in order to render tunneling jutsu ineffective, and security will be very tight."
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Could Panache locate Hana because she smells like Hazou? Or in the morning sniff around the Mizukage tower to find her? I am sure Hana can locate Jiraiya for her or knows where he stays.

Also the thread seems to miss the obvious point of the seal, it costs chakra to use, so only teams who have access to a Wakahisa (or the few other people who can give out free chakra) have the ability to infuse large amounts of them. Other teams will understand that their best choice of action is to wait until the end and then attack other teams to gain the seals without having infused them themselves.
 
FYI (mostly @Oneiros43 as the only current supporter) I edited the plan a bit to expand that "due cation" includes a very low-key PSA about seal-handling safety. In general I'll try to avoid any more retroactive edits.
 
huhYeahGoodPoint said:
Wait, why would forfeiting to save everybody horrific deaths from sealing failures cost us political capital? If anything, this seems like it might cause the exact opposite effect, where everybody in that Swamp now personally owes us for saving them, and their Villages by extension.
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A few reasons.

1) Hazou's estimation of sealing failures is artificially high due to his experiences in the woods - A village's resources to contain and deal with sealing failures are far superior to a missing-nin's. This means that while a seal may fail, it will, at worst, kill a few genin before being contained.
2) The chances of something going bad are actually fairly low - it's not how many seals are in play, it's how many seals are hit by aoe attacks - we can actually reduce this via disencentivizing violence via our current plan

The above means that the danger is not as large as Hazou thinks it is from his experiences. Additionally, let's examine other options of what might be the case:

1) The single seal Hazou saw might be different from the other seals, meaning they don't have the same failure problems
2) It's possible that, as Hazou's specialty is not sealing failures, the person who designed this seal manipulated it such that it doesn't fail unsafely (i.e. Hazou might have messed up a sealing background check leading to errant conclusions)

So, all the above means it is likely not as bad as Hazou made it out to be. Now let's examine the political capital that needs to be burned to stop this:

To the average ninja, this (night light seals) doesn't seem like a dangerous thing, and it is difficult to demonstrate the danger. It will require trusting Jiraiya (or whomever Hazou uses) to stop the exam. The danger also cannot be well demonstrated beyond to a small subset of people (i.e. sealmasters). This means Mist will likely be able to spin the story such that Leaf and/or Hazou thought the exam was too hard and were too weak ninja to continue it. Mist will not just graciously say "oh yeah, my bad." In fact, there's a strong chance that Mist will resist attempts to stop the event until either the event is over or a sealing catastrophy occurs (in which case Hazou's warning did little to nothing, though he'll recoup the political capital spent).

Now, let's look at the benefits. There are three primary ways this plays out:

1) Hazou is incorrect about the seal danger --> we just gave up and made ourselves look like idiots
2) Hazou is correct about the seal danger
a) The event is stopped before anything too bad happens --> Mist can make fairly strong claims that the seals aren't as dangerous as others claim they are, and it will be difficult to disprove those claims safely
b) The event is stopped after something bad happens --> We gain some political capital, but Hazou fails to save lives
c) The event is not stopped and something bad happens --> We get to say "I told you so" and ninja die anyways
d) The event is not stopped and nothing bad happens --> Mist can point to the fact that nothing bad happened as proof that they weren't wrong in their decisions.

So, if Hazou is incorrect about the seal danger (which honestly, is likely given his proximity to Kagome -- see how Jiraiya is significantly less concerned about sealing failures), he loses political capital and fails to save lives. If Hazou is correct about the seal danger, he gains political capital only if something bad happens, and he saves lives only if the event is stopped before something bad happens.

Now, there are a couple things we should do to account for this new information. The most obvious is that we don't want to trigger any sealing failures ourselves. This means taking down our explosive traps, since they are the most likely to cause sealing failure. Probably replacing them with Macerators or things that are less likely to destroy the seals is a wise move, eliminating them entirely if necessary. We also want to limit the number of these things we make, since they're so expensive to infuse. As we can store them in the Pangolin realm, we can mitigate pretty much all the danger to any seals we have though, so I do think we should make them (and store them away in the Pangolin's realm). Likely, only make ~300 of them, since that's around how much we could infuse all at once in front of the proctors for scoring at the end.
 
I'm concerned that hazou is thinking too much like his original, seal-sweatshop/missing-nin teacher in terms of risk assessment. There's no question that whoever made these things was not following the best practices handbook and the fact that this whole potential disaster got this far without being caught, but we've seen other, established sealmasters be a lot more caviler without getting their faces eaten.

It may even be that Ren has some reason to want that specific sealmaster to suffer a humiliation- or to give them a lot of state money as a bribe. The potentially desirable feature of requiring a lot of chakra to activate in the middle of a swamp may have been a necessary part of the plan, or just a way to win favor with one of Mist's prominent clans. We just don't know. It may be no coincidence that she arranged this in a death swamp where invaders will get gobbled by wildlife and they can afford to nuke the whole area if the have to.

We need to loop J in on this. Do the pangolins know the telepath jutsu? Could they swim around underground trying to ping him?
 
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Kiba said:
Actually, we don't know what the risk is. All we know that the seal is poorly designed piece of shit.
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Main reason why I think is a bad idea to forfeit is this. We don't know enough.
I mean, every choice we make here, has a chance to fuck us over somehow, but staying at least buy us the political capital it usually does when we beat everyone asses so hard it goes to another dimension, and then if it is indeed a real thing, we can spend a bit of it when this whole debacle rolls over, and still choose which of the potential beneficial things that this could warrant us we want to go for.

If we forfeit in the other hand, first there is the fairly high chance that this is nothing, meaning we forfeit for shit, and a big part of Jiraya's plan goes to hell immediately, we can probably say goodbye to his status as Hokage as well, and then, there is the chance that this is true, meaning that either things will go booooom everywhere if everyone finds out getting us some good will from a lot of people, while mist will absolutely hate our guts for it, don't expect reason from the PeopleWithBedroomLightsOfMassDestruction mates, do not, or Jiraya will make some deal with Mist to hush it over, then while we will win political capital on mist and leaf, if we do a good job no one else will know shit, meaning we forfeited and no one knows why, this is bad for many, many reasons.
 
Radvic said:
A few reasons.

1) Hazou's estimation of sealing failures is artificially high due to his experiences in the woods - A village's resources to contain and deal with sealing failures are far superior to a missing-nin's. This means that while a seal may fail, it will, at worst, kill a few genin before being contained.
2) The chances of something going bad are actually fairly low - it's not how many seals are in play, it's how many seals are hit by aoe attacks - we can actually reduce this via disencentivizing violence via our current plan

The above means that the danger is not as large as Hazou thinks it is from his experiences. Additionally, let's examine other options of what might be the case:

1) The single seal Hazou saw might be different from the other seals, meaning they don't have the same failure problems
2) It's possible that, as Hazou's specialty is not sealing failures, the person who designed this seal manipulated it such that it doesn't fail unsafely (i.e. Hazou might have messed up a sealing background check leading to errant conclusions)

So, all the above means it is likely not as bad as Hazou made it out to be. Now let's examine the political capital that needs to be burned to stop this:

To the average ninja, this (night light seals) doesn't seem like a dangerous thing, and it is difficult to demonstrate the danger. It will require trusting Jiraiya (or whomever Hazou uses) to stop the exam. The danger also cannot be well demonstrated beyond to a small subset of people (i.e. sealmasters). This means Mist will likely be able to spin the story such that Leaf and/or Hazou thought the exam was too hard and were too weak ninja to continue it. Mist will not just graciously say "oh yeah, my bad." In fact, there's a strong chance that Mist will resist attempts to stop the event until either the event is over or a sealing catastrophy occurs (in which case Hazou's warning did little to nothing, though he'll recoup the political capital spent).

Now, let's look at the benefits. There are three primary ways this plays out:

1) Hazou is incorrect about the seal danger --> we just gave up and made ourselves look like idiots
2) Hazou is correct about the seal danger
a) The event is stopped before anything too bad happens --> Mist can make fairly strong claims that the seals aren't as dangerous as others claim they are, and it will be difficult to disprove those claims safely
b) The event is stopped after something bad happens --> We gain some political capital, but Hazou fails to save lives
c) The event is not stopped and something bad happens --> We get to say "I told you so" and ninja die anyways
d) The event is not stopped and nothing bad happens --> Mist can point to the fact that nothing bad happened as proof that they weren't wrong in their decisions.

So, if Hazou is incorrect about the seal danger (which honestly, is likely given his proximity to Kagome -- see how Jiraiya is significantly less concerned about sealing failures), he loses political capital and fails to save lives. If Hazou is correct about the seal danger, he gains political capital only if something bad happens, and he saves lives only if the event is stopped before something bad happens.

Now, there are a couple things we should do to account for this new information. The most obvious is that we don't want to trigger any sealing failures ourselves. This means taking down our explosive traps, since they are the most likely to cause sealing failure. Probably replacing them with Macerators or things that are less likely to destroy the seals is a wise move, eliminating them entirely if necessary. We also want to limit the number of these things we make, since they're so expensive to infuse. As we can store them in the Pangolin realm, we can mitigate pretty much all the danger to any seals we have though, so I do think we should make them (and store them away in the Pangolin's realm). Likely, only make ~300 of them, since that's around how much we could infuse all at once in front of the proctors for scoring at the end.
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Allow me add this to the calculation: Ren is not an idiot, though she may be publicly portraying one. The Kurosawa always have at least one sealmaster, and she wouldn't trust a critical element of her keystone political gambit of the international games without having it thoroughly reviewed. Whatever the situation may be, she already knows, and has decided to proceed anyway. There is some reason that she wants this.
 
Lailoken said:
Allow me add this to the calculation: Ren is not an idiot, though she may be publicly portraying one. The Kurosawa always have at least one sealmaster, and she wouldn't trust a critical element of her keystone political gambit of the international games without having it thoroughly reviewed. Whatever the situation may be, she already knows, and has decided to proceed anyway. There is some reason that she wants this.
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Ren may not be an idiot, but she's not infallible either. The seal may have passed scrutiny or missed initial scrutiny, especially if everybody was using the seals for years without trouble.

The point being, we don't know.
 
Kiba said:
Ren may not be an idiot, but she's not infallible either. The seal may have passed scrutiny or missed initial scrutiny, especially if everybody was using the seals for years without trouble.

The point being, we don't know.
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I am certain that she, head of a clan of bloodline sealmasters, had the seal looked over by a professional, full-time sealmaster before placing an extremely expensive order for thousands and making them the centerpieces of one of the first events of the most important project in the entirety of her very fragile political rise. If Hazou the amateur could trivially notice this it means that Ren already knows about it. How it fits into her plans is a question, but it does fit into her plans.

-unless the proctor who identified the team deliberately gave them different seals from everybody else. We really need to get some while henged or trade/steal from another team and compare.
 
If the pangolins can't reach Jiraiya, what about the toads? What's the transmission lag for relaying a message through them?
 
Lailoken said:
If Hazou the amateur could trivially notice this it means that Ren already knows about it.
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That was because it was an amateur seal. Not only Hazō noticed the flaws, it didn't take him all that long to reverse engineer it.

The flip side of reasonable competency is reasonable incompetency. The Kurosawa is not a clan of sealmasters, but diplomats and frontline fighters.

Beside, we don't even know who makes it.

ThrawnCA said:
If the pangolins can't reach Jiraiya, what about the toads? What's the transmission lag for relaying a message through them?
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Very slow.
 
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So... in the absence of sealmasters able to cheat demonstrate ninja skills, I guess the examiners' plan is that teams will have to go get all their seals in the second half? And the first 24 hours are just a chance for them to eliminate each other (or get eaten by wildlife)?

That's kind of begging for a significant sealing failure in the first 24 hours, when non-Mist teams are likely to be carrying lots of activated seals.
 
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I am now imagining Hazou jury-rigging a howitzer and guided artillery shell out of a hollow log, a God-Breaking Wind, a Tunneler's Friend, and Pandaa to deliver an example seal to J.

How high is Akane's mechanical aptitude now?



Kiba said:
That was because it was made an amateur seal. Not only Hazō noticed the flaws, it didn't take him all that long to reverse engineer it.

The flip side of reasonable competency is reasonable incompetency. The Kurosawa is not a clan of sealmasters, but diplomats and frontline fighters.

Beside, we don't even know who makes it.



Very slow.
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They are nevertheless unique in always having at least one full-time sealmaster per generation, plus the accumulated institutional knowledge that entails. She would not have spent a literal fortune on an unknown seal to be used in unprecedented numbers in unprecedented conditions by untrained children without going through the utterly trivial step of having her clan sealmaster glance over it.

This isn't delegating the catering duties. If something goes wrong here people die, possibly including her entire clan. This is important and expensive enough that she would have taken five minutes of personal interest.
 
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Lailoken said:
She would not have spent a literal fortune on an unknown seal to be used in unprecedented numbers in unprecedented conditions by untrained children without going through the utterly trivial step of having her clan sealmaster glance over it.
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It's not unknown, though. It's a night-light for children. It's been used for a long time, by lots of rich people, without any incidents as far as we know. She might not have even realised that no one competent has ever reviewed it before.

I mean, if anyone had, would this still be on the market? To the upper class, no less? Clearly, if this is a genuine sample of a Mist night light seal, then we can confidently say that it has never been looked at before by someone who knew what they were doing.

I don't think it's plausible that Ren knows night light seals are dangerous. Even if she had her reasons to want them in the Chuunin exam, she ought to have begun taking steps to remove them from the general market. She might gamble with genin, but she would not risk the political backlash (especially in the current climate) of an incident occurring in the swamp, and clans who hear about it saying, "What?! These things we've been buying for our kids are ticking bombs? And the Mizukage knew about this, and DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING to us?!!!"
 
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Ordered priorities (for me, personally):
  1. Survive
  2. Get word out to Jiraiya before the exams are over
  3. Prevent others from triggering sealing failures
  4. Win
To this end, I think our best bet is actually to stick to the plan for the most part. Panache can *try* to follow the Anbu stealthily and figure out if or where they store the tokens. While out, Panache also looks for a Leaf nin to inform of what's happening. While she's doing that, we stockpile the seals, destroying them when possible, and produce party lights for the information exchange. May be necessary to change the trading ratios.
 
Radvic said:
A few reasons.

1) Hazou's estimation of sealing failures is artificially high due to his experiences in the woods - A village's resources to contain and deal with sealing failures are far superior to a missing-nin's. This means that while a seal may fail, it will, at worst, kill a few genin before being contained.
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I disagree with this. The frequency of sealing failures should not in any way be influenced by location which leaves only the magnitude of it. And all we know is that one S-ranked Hokage level ninja said he isn't super worried about it. This does not sound like normal procedure, this sounds like "I have seen so much shit and I am tough as nails, I can deal with anything that comes" nor does that sound like he could prevent the colleteral damage - just he himself is not worried about himself.

And honestly, I think Kagome is probably close in sealing skill to Jiraiya and he is quite obviously more paranoid about it. The difference is that Kagome is less of a combat monster and has spent A LOT more time in the presence of seals and other seal masters so he has seen stuff.

Radvic said:
2) The chances of something going bad are actually fairly low - it's not how many seals are in play, it's how many seals are hit by aoe attacks - we can actually reduce this via disencentivizing violence via our current plan
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Again, we do not know this. Seals may fail even during activation and not just combat. Maybe someone applies too much chakra, some idiot tries to use elemental chakra or whatever. Or they try to hide the active seals in a storage seal their Jounin sensei gave them as a gift for making the cut for the Chunin Exams.

Radvic said:
The above means that the danger is not as large as Hazou thinks it is from his experiences. Additionally, let's examine other options of what might be the case:

1) The single seal Hazou saw might be different from the other seals, meaning they don't have the same failure problems
2) It's possible that, as Hazou's specialty is not sealing failures, the person who designed this seal manipulated it such that it doesn't fail unsafely (i.e. Hazou might have messed up a sealing background check leading to errant conclusions)
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This again seems unlikely, Hazo is pretty skilled at sealing wrt to most of the population. 1) could be an issue but any plan worth its salt is taking that into account and includes testing more seals from different proctors given to different non-Goketsu people.


Radvic said:
1) Hazou is incorrect about the seal danger --> we just gave up and made ourselves look like idiots
2) Hazou is correct about the seal danger
a) The event is stopped before anything too bad happens --> Mist can make fairly strong claims that the seals aren't as dangerous as others claim they are, and it will be difficult to disprove those claims safely
b) The event is stopped after something bad happens --> We gain some political capital, but Hazou fails to save lives
c) The event is not stopped and something bad happens --> We get to say "I told you so" and ninja die anyways
d) The event is not stopped and nothing bad happens --> Mist can point to the fact that nothing bad happened as proof that they weren't wrong in their decisions.
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I think you are vastly underestimating Jiraiya's role in this. He is not an NPC and even at the offchance that we are wrong and the seals are perfectly fine, he will still point out the possible danger and argue that what we did was reasonable. But I don't think Hazo is wrong to begin with so lets look at the other options.

By giving Jiraiya even a small window to assert his authority as both Hokage who got spurned by Mist's surprise revelation and as a world renown seal master, his word is going to mean a lot more than Ren's and he will be able to get concessions out of this (a small part being that our disqualification is nullified among other praises about how we acted well etc). All he has to do is threaten to tell the other Kages that Mist gambled with the lives of their best upcoming ninjas. He could also play the other angle of taking Mist's side and try to be understanding about with the undercurrent of them owing him ("I can see how you had to rush the seals on such a short notice so it makes sense you failed to spot the potential danger, I get it. Tell you what, you make sure my teams pass this stage and the next and we can keep that between us and I'll show you an alternative seal that you can use next time").

tl;dr
Regardless of whether we are wrong (as unlikely as that is), Jiraiya will handle the outcome and spin it into his favor. If we happen to be right, we actually save lives on top of it which is why forfeiting - if no other option of contacting Jiraiya presents itself - is the smart way to do.

And since we haven't voted on much of anything or made enough plans, I am going to point people at my plan again which incorporates many different ways to solve this exam stage, including forfeiting to tell Jiraiya if it looks like we could not reach him another way after a specific time limit.

People are obviously welcome to fork parts of it, especially if you are still not convinced forfeiting is a sensible choice after exhausting all other options.

Tua said:
[X] Action Plan: We prevented Armageddon and all we got was this stupid Chunin vest

This plan is all about trying multiple different angles at once until we find at least one way to succeed. At the bare minimum, this plan will not only stop a catastrophical seal failure from happening but also earn some political capital for Jiraiya, some measure of goodwill from Mist for not publicly announcing the safety issues of their seals and, presumably, the respect of the Leaf clan heirs for our knowledge, dedication for the greater good and strategic thinking.

As a bonus, we are going to try pulling this off without anyone having to leave the Swamp area.

Goals:
  • Prevent a catastrophic sealing failure
  • Show off our Chunin skills
  • Remain in the second exam if possible, leave to deliver a message to Jiraiya if not
  • Deploy multiple strategies at the same time to increase the odds of having our cake and eating it


Step 1) Don't panic and double check
  • Get more samples from different proctors and have Hazo look into them to make sure we didn't just get a bad batch. Use Henges (Noburi/Keiko) or send people from the other Leaf teams to remove the bias against Goketsu. Hazo will remain at the camp to make Party Trick seals in the meanwhile but there should be at least two more people with him to guard him and the base at all times.
  • If the majority or even all of the new seals show the same problem, continue with the plan. Otherwise disregard this plan entirely and complete our previous Action Plan.
Step 2) Waiting for reinforcements
  • Hazo will continue to make Party Trick seals.
  • Once our reinforcements have arrived (Team Asuma and Kurenai at the least have agreed to meet up) we will update them on the situation. Include Shino and Shikamaru into the discussion and listen to their input. Adjust the plan accordingly.
  • Stop drawing attention to our location once it did its job of signalling our allies. We cannot implement the trading unfortunately as that would incentivize people to infuse even more of the dangerous seals, so advertizing our location more than we have is a no-go.
  • Shuffle teams around so that each team has a tracker/sensor (that being Shino, Hinata, Kiba and potentially Noburi/Ino) and send them out to contact the other Leaf teams who we could not contact before entering the Swamp. All Leaf teams should be aware of our relation to Jiraiya and that our uncle Kagome and Hazo are sealmasters so they should be inclined to take our warnings seriously and help regardless of their initial plans.
  • Have at least a few combat pangolins stationed in the base and send the rest with the combat teams. Noburi is going to be put to good use here and we are out our most vulnerable during the next few hours so even if we cannot sustain the summons the next day, they will buy us enough time to implement our plans.
Step 3) Reducing the risk of sealing failures
  • At first light, send out teams (pangolins can be sent during the night) to inform the non-allied teams about the time limit of the night lights (Hazo mentioned them requiring varying amounts of CP, so if we are lucky some seals might have burned out by now and people will be more inclined to listen). Ask them to not infuse any seals until much closer to the dead line or they risk spending CP for no gain whatsoever and that you know this because you happen to have ex-Mist ninjas as team mates who have seen this type of seal beforehand. If questioned about why we give out this information for free, tell them that we are trying to build long term relationships by being helpful (the whole international cooperation bit from last plan; not going to write this here again). While all of this is the truth, the biggest advantage of them listening to us is that we buy time where they do not infuse seals and by the time they are going to request their seals, we should have succeeded in contacting Jiraiya. Do not mention the potential sealing failure since they would not believe us anyway and we would give up the gains of solving this problem more discreetly (see below). There is also the fact that some of the Genin could try to weaponize sealing failures because they have no idea about the Watchers so the less they know, the less danger they will be to us and themselves.
  • Give each team a Party Trick seal that can be turned off and on as a gesture of goodwill and as proof that our source (Hazo, that is) knows what he is talking about. Ask them to spread the word among their allied teams.
  • Take out teams that blatantly refuse to listen to reason and that we think we can defeat without great risk. Do this however as a last resort only, otherwise leave the punching for the next day.
  • This step should happen concurrently with Step 4) while leaving at least one team or more (depending on how many Leaf teams we end up attracting) at the base to rest or to do things mentioned under 4).
Step 4) Contacting Jiraiya (Time Limit: 4h)
  • Ask within the Leaf teams if anyone knows where Jiraiya is. If someone knows, send a pangolin that carries both a letter and a night light seal.
  • If we cannot narrow down Jiraiya's position, send out pangolins to various parts of the city to draw attention and drop lots of letters (the content being "We need to talk to Jiraiya. Remember the Watchers. - G" or something like that; chances are we actually made up code phrases for emergency scenarios like these if not this situation exactly within our clan; additionally, add the sign for emergency of Leaf in there if such a thing exist (i.e. like how everyone knows what Code Red means IRL, Leaf likely has something similar)). If we are lucky, one of them will find their way to Leaf ANBU, Gai or Kakashi who will then take it from there.
  • Contact the Mist ANBU at the edge of the Swamp and ask them about the current whereabouts of Jiraiya or Ren. Use intermediaries with high Diplomacy like Ino to do the talking, avoid using Goketsu if possible. If the ANBUs still refuse, send Hazo to talk to them and play the "my dad is the Hokage and my aunt is the Mizukage" card to persuade them to tell them where Jiraiya is or even to send a message for him (the letter from above). Use bribes if necessary (storage seals, explosive seals etc).
  • If after 4 hours we do not see anything that gives us reason to think that Jiraiya got the message (like the Swamp stage being aborted entirely or the rules having mysteriously changed to not incorporate the seals), forfeit and leave the Swamp deliberately (whether we leave as a team or whether we just send one team mate depends on whether one person forfeiting disqualifies the whole team).
  • No worries though, we will still make up more than enough points to make Chunin*.
  • If the Mist ANBU refuse to let us go and search for Jiraiya even after we forfeited, cause a ruckus but avoid violence and fighting at all costs. If we cannot find Jiraiya then we can make him find us by drawing his attention like this.
  • If even that fails, ask to speak to your respective clan heads and try to get into contact with Jiraiya (preferably) or Ren. Hazo probably has the best shot at this via his Mom.

*
Add to the above that having good judgment, risk assessment skills and being a good leader are all traits desirable for making Chunin - all of which we demonstrate by risking our promotion for saving the lives of our team, our allies and even our opponents. This is in addition of giving Jiraiya a trump card to use against Ren when needed ("I am sure that the Raikage, Tsuchikage and Kazekage would be very interested in the fact that you risked the life of their best genin with these shoddy seals, don't you agree, Ren-chan?").
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Vote time
Adhoc vote count started by Tua on Sep 18, 2017 at 5:44 AM, finished with 160 posts and 8 votes.
  • [X] Action Plan: CODE Z! CODE Z!
    [X] Action Plan: We prevented Armageddon and all we got was this stupid Chunin vest
    [X] Action Plan: A bit too much Kagome in his diet, methinks
    [X] Poll: Pretend Radvic isn't here for the duration of potential-apocalypse crises
    [x] lore update
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[X] Action Plan: We prevented Armageddon and all we got was this stupid Chunin vest
I understand others comments about the apparent low risk of catastrophe due to the established history of people using these seals. That said, I favour this plan because at worst we lose the exams and J loses political capital. Worse things have happened. Like sealing failures.

Tua said:
Use Henges (Noburi/Keiko) or send people from the other Leaf teams to remove the bias against Goketsu.
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Minor note: In case proctors notice the henges, and are intending to sabotage ALL Leaf teams, not just Goketsu, we should attempt to send Mist-nin teams to get seals for us to check as well.
 
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KaGoGoGadgetMe said:
Minor note: In case proctors notice the henges, and are intending to sabotage ALL Leaf teams, not just Goketsu, we should attempt to send Mist-nin teams to get seals for us to check as well.
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I'll add that.

Another thing worth pointing out with regards to the Kurosawa and seal masters topic: Remember that when Hazo told Inoue about how the Iron Nerve could be used to make perfect copies of sealing blanks that he specifically mentioned that this is a clan secret because the Kurosawa want to keep their potential as sealing masters hidden because they prefer front line combat over being kept in the Village pumping out seals all day.
It is because of this tidbit that I am fairly certain that the fault on the night light seals was a mistake and not intentional.
Could the Kurosawas have made a similar seal that worked better? Yes, they could have but then Ren would have to explain where all those seals were coming from which would risk spilling the secret about the Iron Nerve with regards to sealing because I also think that you need more than 1 or 2 seal masters to provide the same quantity of light seals with a seal that inherently takes longer to produce than the night lights.

In the end, Ren probably just contracted the night lights as a rush order to someone unaffiliated.
 
Given that the seal was extremely simple (meaning Hazou could easily understand and analyze it), and assuming that other samples can be obtained to verify that they're all the same...

Is there any plausible way that blasting an active seal with a fire jutsu (which will probably happen at some point in the 48 hours) would not carry a substantial risk of catastrophic sealing failure? Any good reason why Hazou might have misunderstood something so basic?
 
I feel that us exitting the exams gives no additional chance of us getting Jiraiya to stop them compared to, say, Panache contacting a Leaf agent with appropriate codeword, which is likely well within her capabilities.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Given that the seal was extremely simple (meaning Hazou could easily understand and analyze it), and assuming that other samples can be obtained to verify that they're all the same...
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He could understand and reverse engineer it and make more copies of the seal, but he did not want to make anymore. Personally, I trust his technical expertise, both in what he told us he doesn't know and does know.

ThrawnCA said:
Is there any plausible way that blasting an active seal with a fire jutsu (which will probably happen at some point in the 48 hours) would not carry a substantial risk of catastrophic sealing failure? Any good reason why Hazou might have misunderstood something so basic?
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Click to shrink...

If soaking those seals in water ain't going to work, then a fire justu sure as hell ain't going to work either.
 
The problem with contacting Jiraiya and any Leaf ninja is that it might be construed as cheating*.

* I mean in blatant and disqualifying way.
 
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