let's weaponize MEW all we can, because the more ways we have to make our enemies dead, the less chance they'll have to make us dead. Or worse.
That is something we can agree on!
We'll have to agree to disagree about the "no such thing as evil" thing.
Well, more specifically, I find it to be relatively common to use "evil" as a way to dehumanize people, so I avoid ever using it in that way. It doesn't help me model people, so there's no reason for it to have a place in my head.
 
Well, more specifically, I find it to be relatively common to use "evil" as a way to dehumanize people
I think that the capacity for evil is unique to humanity, and ought to be distinguished from mental illness--not the same thing at all. In any event, this is getting off topic.
 
Speaking of which, after binging Naruto fanfiction thinking about our team comp a little more, I just realized we don't have a genjutsu specialist on the team anymore, since Mari is busy seducing clan heads' wives making friends with the wives of the clan heads. Do we think it's a valuable thing to get or is it a case of "we don't know the mechanics and can't be bothered to get something so useless"?
 
Speaking of which, after binging Naruto fanfiction thinking about our team comp a little more, I just realized we don't have a genjutsu specialist on the team anymore, since Mari is busy seducing clan heads' wives making friends with the wives of the clan heads. Do we think it's a valuable thing to get or is it a case of "we don't know the mechanics and can't be bothered to get something so useless"?
Definitely a hole that needs filling. Maybe we can get her to train us in it next time we're in Leaf?

What is "binging?"
 
Definitely a hole that needs filling. Maybe we can get her to train us in it next time we're in Leaf?

What is "binging?"
Binging.

Speaking of which, after binging Naruto fanfiction thinking about our team comp a little more, I just realized we don't have a genjutsu specialist on the team anymore, since Mari is busy seducing clan heads' wives making friends with the wives of the clan heads. Do we think it's a valuable thing to get or is it a case of "we don't know the mechanics and can't be bothered to get something so useless"?
Actually we do know the mechanics (to some extent). Genjutsu, as a rule (that can be broken -- see Truth Lost in the Fog), functions against a single target, altering their senses in some regard. It is a single skill that you may learn various techniques in (for a small XP cost on a per-technique basis) and opposed by Awareness.
 
Fine, start with animal experimentation--but you've got to move to people before you try it in actual combat. Maybe volunteer to help out in T&I?

And let's not beat around the bush. Of course it's torture.

We could also just go with having the granite erupt from the enemy's clothing or gear into his body.

Whichever part of the body is most useful--if we want to keep him potentially useful for the future, spear his hands, making him unable to fight or do hand signs but able to talk. If we want him to talk, but are going to kill him afterwards, go for the belly or genitals. If we want an instant kill, well, that's what his heart and brain are for. We could also sever his spinal column if we're okay with granting him instant anesthesia from the point of severance down.
You know that if this were possible then everyone would do it, right? Would you prefer that the QMs say "that doesn't work", or that the next time you get in a fight we say "they went first and you're dead"?
 
You know that if this were possible then everyone would do it, right? Would you prefer that the QMs say "that doesn't work", or that the next time you get in a fight we say "they went first and you're dead"?
Explanation: Chakra exclusion zone exists. Based on the individual's chakra pool, to a limit, a certain area around their body is not able to serve as the 'source' for a non-native (that is, one that they did not use) technique. e: The fact that the Chakra Exclusion Zone does not apply to one's own techniques is both subject to debate as to why among scholars, and also part of why learning new techniques (and Technique Hacking in general) is so dangerous.

If we experimented, we'd be able to do the described technique against animals (and civilians, if we decided to be Evil). Of course, Hazou (I spelled this as Haxozu before I caught the typo) doesn't know about the Chakra Exclusion Zone because he doesn't have training in Technique Hacking.
 
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Explanation: Chakra exclusion zone exists. Based on the individual's chakra pool, to a limit, a certain area around their body is not able to serve as the 'source' for a non-native (that is, one that they did not use) technique. e: The fact that the Chakra Exclusion Zone does not apply to one's own techniques is both subject to debate as to why among scholars, and also part of why learning new techniques (and Technique Hacking in general) is so dangerous.

If we experimented, we'd be able to do the described technique against animals (and civilians, if we decided to be Evil). Of course, Hazou (I spelled this as Haxozu before I caught the typo) doesn't know about the Chakra Exclusion Zone because he doesn't have training in Technique Hacking.
There's clearly already something like this, because kawarimi permissions are a thing.
 
You know that if this were possible then everyone would do it, right? Would you prefer that the QMs say "that doesn't work", or that the next time you get in a fight we say "they went first and you're dead"?
How should I know that it's not possible if we've neither tried it nor had (until now) QM guidance on the matter. Skywalkers were possible--why not sticks of granite erupting from people's shirts?

Carigaya has now mentioned the existence of "chakra exclusion zones." Seems like something we ought to learn about. How far out does such a zone extend, how powerful is it, under what circumstances is it waived?

It can't extend terribly far, since Hazo was perfectly able to call up a wall of granite to turn Jotarou (a jonin, I'll point out) into paste. Perhaps with more control and practice he could spear an enemy in the same way, or crush just the lower half of his body?
 
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How should I know that it's not possible if we've neither tried it nor had (until now) QM guidance on the matter. Skywalkers were possible--why not sticks of granite erupting from people's shirts?
Because Air Domes are a Jiraiya-specific seal and there are lots of "instantiate element" techniques
 
Because Air Domes are a Jiraiya-specific seal and there are lots of "instantiate element" techniques
Fine, there are technical differences. My point is not "they're the same, QM is wrong." My point is "we should be thinking about these things, even if not every idea pans out."
 
Fine, there are technical differences. My point is not "they're the same, QM is wrong." My point is "we should be thinking about these things, even if not every idea pans out."
That's fair; sorry if I came off like I was saying we shouldn't. I was just giving a reason that we could have used to determine that there was a reason it wouldn't work.
Carigaya has now mentioned the existence of "chakra exclusion zones." Seems like something we ought to learn about. How far out does such a zone extend, how powerful is it, under what circumstances is it waived?

It can't extend terribly far, since Hazo was perfectly able to call up a wall of granite to turn Jotarou (a jonin, I'll point out) into paste. Perhaps with more control and practice he could spear an enemy in the same way, or crush just the lower half of his body?

My idea for CEV was that it would max out at maybe a few inches away, and that it would extend over inanimate things they had a hold over (ie weapons), to immediately fade upon being released.

IIRC, Hazou just collapsed the room with MEW. I could be wrong, though; under the assumption I am, it would be entirely possible for a technique to extend into CEV, it just wouldn't be able to start inside it.

e: Here's a fun quote from last year and about 1800 pages ago:

I wonder how much we'd have to do for Jiraiya for it to be worth it to him to arrange for us to be able to travel through Fire (or Konoha) with relative freedom. Because I mean, honestly? I kind of want to see Lee.

Guess we know his price now :D
 
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That's fair; sorry if I came off like I was saying we shouldn't. I was just giving a reason that we could have used to determine that there was a reason it wouldn't work.


My idea for CEZ was that it would max out at maybe a few inches away, and that it would extend over inanimate things they had a hold over (ie weapons), to immediately fade upon being released.

IIRC, Hazou just collapsed the room with MEW. I could be wrong, though; under the assumption I am, it would be entirely possible for a technique to extend into CEV, it just wouldn't be able to start inside it.
I didn't know about CEZs. I guess it's a canon thing?
The granite wall surged up out of the floor at Hazou's feet, rising at an angle that took the kneeling and immobile Joutarou in the chest and rammed him up into Komori. She danced back in surprise, easily avoiding the attack but failing to stop the wall from slamming Joutarou into and through the ceiling.

When used on a wooden floor, the Multiple Earth Wall creates a chakra construct that is, temporarily, identical to normal granite. Granite, as it happens, is heavy. Really heavy. Hazou had created a lot of it, and the fight was happening on the second floor of the inn.

The floor collapsed under them and all seven ninja—well, six and a red smear—plummeted to the ground below.
So let's research how much protection CEZs actually offer against weaponized MEW.
 
Explanation: Chakra exclusion zone exists. Based on the individual's chakra pool, to a limit, a certain area around their body is not able to serve as the 'source' for a non-native (that is, one that they did not use) technique. e: The fact that the Chakra Exclusion Zone does not apply to one's own techniques is both subject to debate as to why among scholars, and also part of why learning new techniques (and Technique Hacking in general) is so dangerous.

If we experimented, we'd be able to do the described technique against animals (and civilians, if we decided to be Evil). Of course, Hazou (I spelled this as Haxozu before I caught the typo) doesn't know about the Chakra Exclusion Zone because he doesn't have training in Technique Hacking.

The explanation I'd prefer is the instinctual ability of those who can control chakra (ninja, animals, civilians) to automatically dismiss such blatant disruptions of their own body.

I'd want to see what happens if you tried it on someone who'd been subject to the mercies of a Hyuuga.

If it were to work more generally, I'd want it to be a high end coupling of MEW and Genjutsu (one for the technique, one for the ability to subvert natural chakra systems)

@eaglejarl @Raxner
 
So based on what Hazo did to Jotaro, it seems like it's at least plausible that we could impale an enemy with a spike erupting from the ground a couple of feet away. Worth researching, @eaglejarl?
 
Explanation: Chakra exclusion zone exists. Based on the individual's chakra pool, to a limit, a certain area around their body is not able to serve as the 'source' for a non-native (that is, one that they did not use) technique. e: The fact that the Chakra Exclusion Zone does not apply to one's own techniques is both subject to debate as to why among scholars, and also part of why learning new techniques (and Technique Hacking in general) is so dangerous.

If we experimented, we'd be able to do the described technique against animals (and civilians, if we decided to be Evil). Of course, Hazou (I spelled this as Haxozu before I caught the typo) doesn't know about the Chakra Exclusion Zone because he doesn't have training in Technique Hacking.

While Hazou might not be thinking of CEZ, he might be thinking of ways to mitigate the damage done to his clan-mate. Thinking of ways to make Minami's intelligence of Noburi's bloodline capabilities outdated or misinformed after the fact is a thought he might consider.

I so hope Hazou, Noburi , or Keiko (Kagome?) bring the IC mist-equivalent of the misinformation effect up. It's one of non-violent ways to mitigate damage from info-leaks Hazou meant/wanted to say during the... event.

I really want do this...:drevil:

Misinformation effect - Wikipedia
 
So based on what Hazo did to Jotaro, it seems like it's at least plausible that we could impale an enemy with a spike erupting from the ground a couple of feet away. Worth researching, @eaglejarl?
That would be a not-MEW technique -- it's been stated to only produce the bluntest of spikes (though MEW does have decent combat potential, too just for blunt force trauma). In the right circumstances we could almost certainly use MEW as a direct combat technique, or even assassination technique.
 
That would be a not-MEW technique -- it's been stated to only produce the bluntest of spikes (though MEW does have decent combat potential, too just for blunt force trauma). In the right circumstances we could almost certainly use MEW as a direct combat technique, or even assassination technique.
Oh? I don't remember that.

Ok, what is the sharpest we can get it? Is it sharp enough that at maximum growth speed it could punch through a human body?

Alternatively, we can certainly squash enemies when we have something hard to squash them against--the Jotaro ketchup scene shows that. Can we have two MEWs grow towards each other, each acting as anvil to the other one's hammer? Or one smallish one aimed at the enemy's head, going for blunt force trauma even if skewering isn't an option?
 
Well, technically there are jutsu that make an earth spear appear from the ground, but it does give a slight reaction time to dodge it. At least in original Naruto-verse.
 
Well, technically there are jutsu that make an earth spear appear from the ground, but it does give a slight reaction time to dodge it. At least in original Naruto-verse.
But suppose we're doing something close to that with MEW. Even if the enemy can dodge, we can have it erupt by surprise (for example, from behind him), or in multiple places simultaneously.
 
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I continue to advocate researching what happens when you put chakra-dense material into a seal, using different "densities" of Noburu's water. If we can figure out a solution that works, we could potentially store chakra as a commodity, in much greater densities than before.
 
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