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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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[X] Research Hazou: Goo Bomb
[X] Research Hazou: Lamp Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Shade Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Heating Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Cooling Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Magnet Seal
[X] Research Hazou: Locking Seal
 
I'd really rather we not research seals independently when we don't have a goal tbh...
 
Also, uh, we don't really have a Kagome-level sealing base set up, and that takes days to put up. Though, we need to learn how J does it too.
 
Cariyaga said:
I'd really rather we not research seals independently when we don't have a goal tbh...
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We have lots of goals.
  • Stay safe. [Researching most seals gives us more tools we can use in unexpected situations.]
  • Gain political power in Leaf. [Researching any seals makes us look like a more accomplished sealmaster, which gets us more respect.]
  • Make airships. [Heat seals make hot air.]
  • Keep the service of the pangolin engineer. [Cooling seals give us ice to pay them with.]
  • Improve civilian life. [Random quality-of-life seals can be made civilian-usable by adding LBFs.]
  • Counter Skywalkers [We've already come up with some seal-based ideas here, like the shimmer-dome.]
Cariyaga said:
Also, uh, we don't really have a Kagome-level sealing base set up, and that takes days to put up. Though, we need to learn how J does it too.
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We're setting up a lab for the invisible ink testing though. Might as well use it for research as well.
 
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MadScientist said:
We have lots of goals.
  • Stay safe. [Researching most seals gives us more tools we can use in unexpected situations.]
  • Gain political power in Leaf. [Researching any seals makes us look like a more accomplished sealmaster, which gets us more respect.]
  • Make airships. [Heat seals make hot air.]
  • Keep the service of the pangolin engineer. [Cooling seals give us ice to pay them with.]
  • Improve civilian life. [Random quality-of-life seals can be made civilian-usable by adding LBFs.]
  • Counter Skywalkers [We've already come up with some seal-based ideas here, like the shimmer-dome.]


We're setting up a lab for the invisible ink testing though. Might as well use it for research as well.
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We don't need to have ice for the pangolin engineer; the pangolins decided to cut that requirement given how much 5SB platforms have done for them.

Also, that's seal infusion, the process of which is far less prone to sealing shenanigans than research is; even when you don't have sealing failures during research, weird things happen, some of which are dangerous. Sealing is as much art as science.

When I say goal, I mean a specific thing we're going for in researching a seal. This is even more important when we're researching unique seals (like cooling/heating seals) without any notes or help from senior sealmasters. There is a not-insubstantial chance of sealing failure in doing so, because we have no idea how hard those seals would be, and since we're just voting it in to do the thing we aren't getting Kagome or Jiraiya's estimation of difficulty.
 
1234qwerty said:
Are there any things we can do to further our stated goals of rescuing Hana, capturing the Capybara scroll, or mitigating casualties in the Mist war?

We're the only ones in Leaf advocating Hana's rescue, so if we're lax on it we can't rely on anyone else to pick up the slack. For one thing, if the war with Mist is really coming so soon, wouldn't we rather she be extracted before violence breaks out and she's potentially sent against Leaf nin? Plus Yagura not liking her means a higher likelihood of getting sent on a suicide mission. Even if the plan is to get her out during the war(after isn't an option given suicide missions), we probably don't want to leave the details to Leaf.

The Capybara mission, I'm not sure what we can do about, but not participating at all might lower our standing with the pangolin when we want all the influence we can get to change their genocidal ways.

As for fighting Mist, the most straightforward thing we could do is start mass producing macerators with nonlethal payloads(or banshees and banshee slayers). If there's no nonlethal option for Leaf nin to take, they're not going to take it. There's not much we could do alone, especially given the need for Kagome to keep making skywalkers, but perhaps we could ask Jiraiya if he could use his reputation to recruit some sealers to our cause? Or skip the middle man and use some of our cash to pay for an official mission.

We can't meet Tenten, but maybe we can convince Jiraiya to meet her himself? We have reason to believe she has some skill with storage seals, and with her pacifistic tendencies, I find it likely she'll be on board with making macerators. Having another sealer on side would help save time personally exploring less fruitful avenues of research long term.

Most drastically, we could ask Jiraiya if he could leak that skywalkers came from ninja not native to Leaf, without revealing our identities. Use that as fuel to energize the groups in Leaf that share Hiruzen's philosophy and potentially the tactics Leaf decides to use in the war.
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I like banshees and banshee slayers myself, because even if the enemies get away it cripples them until they can get to a mednin doctor. It also means that enemy doctors will have a massive amount more patients leading to long term attrition.

Hell, add a timed explosive to go off after the banshee seal's had enough time to screw with the ears and no one will even be able to find the seal.
 
Cariyaga said:
Also, that's seal infusion, the process of which is far less prone to sealing shenanigans than research is; even when you don't have sealing failures during research, weird things happen, some of which are dangerous.
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I'm assuming that's in response to us needing a lab for invisible ink?

Jiraiya is freaked out by the idea,
eaglejarl said:
"Hm," Jiraiya said, pursing his lips. "The invisible ink thing still gives me the heebie-jeebies, but given how your bloodline works it might be possible.
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so he'll probably treat it as dangerous enough to require a full lab.

When I say goal, I mean a specific thing we're going for in researching a seal.
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Yeah. And that's what I gave. I don't understand what your objection is. Even just "make us look like a better sealmaster" or "lower TNs in this field" are sufficient justification to use our timeslot on research instead of not using it. Especially on really simple seals relative to Hazou's Sealing level that are minimally dangerous to work on, like the current winning plans are.
 
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Obligatory posting of plan for visibility.
faflec said:
[X] Action Plan: Much Ado About Nothing

  • Ask Kagome follow-up questions before we head back.
    • IF we already went back, skip this part and ask him the questions later.
    • Sources of information (let Mari-sensei ask these questions):
      • What kind of records Kagome is basing his reasoning on, exactly? What kind of intel did he have access to?
      • How far into the past stretch the 'ancient' records Kagome was talking about?
    • What are...
      • Whirlpool revenants?
      • Akatsuki?
      • Hidden Depths?
      • Damnbeasts?
      • Gaki?
      • Leaf's Tailed Beast Breeding Programme?
    • Follow-up questions:
      • Why did the Sage create the Summoning Realm? Why ban seals there?
      • How did the Whirlpool experiments get leaked, and why wasn't it defended properly (surely the Sage could have subdued a wild Tailed Beast...)?
      • How did some lupchanzen end up working for Hidden Villages, when some of them (Cloud, Mist) are responsible for Whirlpool's destruction? Why wouldn't they all end up working for Leaf (since the Sage/his brother were also part of the experiments)?
        • For that matter, why haven't the Sage/Dummy reeled the lupchanz in?
      • If the Sage/his brother weren't sealmasters, how was sealcrafting started & who were its first masters (before Nishimura)?
      • Does he know what chakra is, how the Sage got it and gave it to everyone? What was the world like before chakra?
      • Why does Leaf use scorch squads if the Sage is all about peace?
  • Visit Dr. Yakushi.
    • Ask Noburi if he wants to revisit Dr. Yakushi while we're out.
      • Remind him we're still his minion for a research project.
      • Ask if he's got an idea ready. If not, suggest:
      • Learn how to use medical ninjutsu using water as a vector.
      • Have a discussion about how some diseases can only be caught once and suggest that maybe similar but less deadly diseases might also grant this protection.
    • Check with Jiraiya beforehand if he has any objections. Ask if he can schedule the meeting if needed.
    • Go with Noburi and our escort.
      • Thank him for taking care of Akane and getting her back on her feet.
      • Apologize for our earlier paranoia. We were in a very stressful situation and it affected our judgement.
      • If he asks about further looking at our bloodlines, politely tell him that he'd need to discuss the matter with Jiraiya.
  • Get lunch with Shikamaru.
    • Check with Jiraiya beforehand if he has any objections. See if he can contact the Nara (or if we should do this ourselves).
    • Learn basics of Nara Sign Language (if we haven't already):
      • Do this before lunch with Shikamaru.
      • Ask Minami if it would be possible for Hazou to learn (or if it's a clan secret kinda thing), and further if she would be willing to teach him the basics (this shouldn't take long given the Iron Nerve).
      • Earning the Nara's respect as fellows intellectually and showing willingness to learn their ways (at least, those they are willing to share) would be advantageous.
    • Make sure we've read more of Yumehara's History beforehand. Brush up.
    • General goals:
      • Avoid getting too excitable, but Hazou did enjoy the reading.
      • Use Nara sign language that Minami taught (assuming it is appropriate to use) while discussing it. Express interest in learning more.
      • Make sure to not reveal sensitive information about our recent actions (e.g., Skywalkers).
  • Sealing with Jiraiya:
    • Confirm with Jiraiya that we'll do seal research tomorrow afternoon (as he suggested). Ask:
      • Where we'd go for testing, and if we can set up proper sealing defenses beforehand (if applicable).
        • Use the Kagome Gold Standard™ if we set them up.
      • If our shopping list is OK, and (if he knows) where we'd get them:
        • If Jiraiya wants us to do shopping, we do so before heading to the hospital.
          • Invisible ink.
          • Extra (normal) ink and paper.
          • Supplies for Macerator testing.
            • Smoke Bombs: Ash, talc,...
            • Scent Bombs: Scented oils.
            • Pepper-Balls: Pepper, chilies,...
            • Flashbangs: Soft, white-hot metal.
    • When Jiraiya arrives, start testing.
      • Note: When infusing, have clones ready to Kawarimi us out of sealing failures.
      • Invisible ink seals (use the most basic seal we can make).
      • Macerator variants.
        • Smoke Bomb: Fill with ash or talc, mostly annoying.
        • Scent Bomb: Fill with scented oils or other similar materials.
          • Border patrols and other similar groups given these could tag a more powerful enemy and run, allowing more powerful teams with good noses to find them more easily.
        • Crowd Control: Fill with peppers, chilies or other skin or eye irritants.
          • Useful for disbanding/disabling groups of ninja.
          • Could provide a good way for temporary area denial with minimal property damage, or for crowd dispersal.
        • Flashbang: Fill with small amount of soft, white-hot metal.
          • Probably a bit difficult to get right, but it should fill the air with a large pile of glowing dust that is very bright for a tiny moment before it cools off.
          • Non-lethal, though it might cause minor blisters.
        • Fireball Bomb: Fill with a burning log.
          • Give Jiraiya the specs beforehand (like somewhere safe) + let him decide; show him only if he agrees.
          • Note that we already tested it and don't think it can be a world-ending application; Agent Black probably got the info from Mari-sensei earlier anyway.
          • Also note that the explosions we used are ~B-rank (confirm with Mari-sensei)
      • Wind Clone + Vacuum Step:
        • Use elemental clones to cast Vacuum Step on enemy ninja.
        • Since the enemy is considered an "obstacle" they take damage.
        • Probably requires high chakra capacity.
  • Miscellaneous (to be done offscreen as appropriate):
    • Read the seal book Jiraiya gave us. Make a note of:
      • Seal name.
      • Direct action (what, exactly, does it do?).
      • Existing applications.
Contingencies:
  • Keep Kagome-sensei from blowing anyone up as per usual.
  • Do not say anything that make you seem crazy or dangerous or reckless.
  • Do not divulge sensitive information, especially skywalkers.
    • If anyone ask, "that information is classified".
    • If someone is doubly insistent even after that, back away and consider calling in your escort for assistance.
    • If our escort's in on it, request that we return to our lodgings and tell Jiraiya later.
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MadScientist said:
I'm assuming that's in response to us needing a lab for invisible ink?

Jiraiya is freaked out by the idea,

so he'll probably treat it as dangerous enough to require a full lab.
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If J has a full lab I will rescind my objections to sealing research in general, though I still would rather we ask Jiraiya if he knows of any heating/cooling/etc. seal research notes we can have than doing it ourselves. That's kind of why I'd rather do the beginner seals; they're easy, and they also (presumably?) have notes, and they'll increase our pool of seals we know so we'll have a bigger pool from which to reduce our TNs for research.
 
Cariyaga said:
Also, that's seal infusion, the process of which is far less prone to sealing shenanigans than research is; even when you don't have sealing failures during research, weird things happen, some of which are dangerous. Sealing is as much art as science.

When I say goal, I mean a specific thing we're going for in researching a seal. This is even more important when we're researching unique seals (like cooling/heating seals) without any notes or help from senior sealmasters. There is a not-insubstantial chance of sealing failure in doing so, because we have no idea how hard those seals would be, and since we're just voting it in to do the thing we aren't getting Kagome or Jiraiya's estimation of difficulty.
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I hate this philosophy so much. We have spent 686 exp in sealing and you think that making the most basic seals on our own is to risky. I just literally hate that game play style so much.

We know that researching the casino seals are as difficult as basic storage seals and people think it's to difficult to do. There is taking things safe and then there is just ridiculous amounts paranoia at the expense of fun.
 
@Cariyaga reposting my edit:

When I say goal, I mean a specific thing we're going for in researching a seal.
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Yeah. And that's what I gave. I don't understand what your objection is. Even just "make us look like a better sealmaster" or "lower TNs in this field" are sufficient justification to use our timeslot on research instead of not using it. Especially on really simple seals relative to Hazou's Sealing level that are minimally dangerous to work on, like the current winning plans are.
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Like, seriously, the vote is days away. There must be something less risky we can be doing with our time. Possibly even something which might influence the vote in a positive way.
 
OliWhail said:
  • Can we expect to take a similar amount of time to decode, convert, and produce our versions of the casino seals as we took for the storage and explosive seals?
You had help from Kagome on storage and explosive seals, which reduces TNs significantly (even more so than research notes), so it will likely take longer to reverse-engineer the casino scrolls. Barring more sealing failures, however, it should take an amount of time on roughly the same scale (weeks of concerted effort rather than months).
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Also note that we have leveled sealing several times since then

and researched 4 seals that are in the sound tech tree. So it should lower the TN there
 
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Lailoken said:
Like, seriously, the vote is days away. There must be something less risky we can be doing with our time. Possibly even something which might influence the vote in a positive way.
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My suggestion here is that you actually suggest something if this is how you feel - spitball some ideas and see if they stick. Right now people aren't entirely sure what to do because the QMs haven't exactly given us a clear immediate objective to pursue. I would think that Jiraiya may want to be a bit more proactive in making suggestions as to what we might do, but then again he might want us to stay out of trouble for the most part. If we had an in character reason to meet with Team 7 that might be a good way to try to befriend Sasuke and gain influence with the Uchiha, but we don't know about Team 7 in character.
 
Lailoken said:
Seriously, can we just wait a few days to lock in the Leaf deal before we start risking setting our face on fire again?
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[Begins chant]

Face on fire. Face on fire. Face on fire. Grasp the stars.
Face on fire. Face on fire. Face on fire. Kill the gods.
Face on fire. Face on fire. Face on fire. Nuke the world.
Face on fire. Face on fire. Face on fire. Rule it all.

x 4 repeat
 
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