I'm still somewhat skeptical but alright.
I feel like we should get this without making an official declaration for it. Like... he absolutely had passwords and codes in his letters with Hazo through Noburi, there's no way they were all just variations of what to do when Akatsuki comes knocking. We should already have this.
There was some math over in the Discord server, it was unclear if it was a matter of a few hours or a few days to warm up but it was definitely not weeks or months. Also recall that the ground can still be quite cold without having liquefied air. That's approximately the first thing to go.
So @Noumero I take it you would support this?
The circle of destruction and force dome will be detectable for months, so specify that this be done somewhere really remote, or fairly deep underground.
Please explicitly mention the risk that Oro will Yoink the rift and never return to Leaf.
These deadman switches need to work even if Orochimaru somehow subverts Hazou.
Cannai seems sufficient. Have him swear to spread the information if Hazou doesn't call it off once every week. He'd likely be able to detect if Hazou is mind-controlled/under duress during these check-ins.
Might be. If we're counting on that, then "talk with Hazou for 20min and check for coercion/subversion" should be an explicit part of Cannai's protocol/oaths.
Ehh, ninja stuff happens where people can be disabled for a week pretty easy. I think a month would be more reasonable, with options for extending that without disabling the failsafe if the likes of Noburi or Kagome pass a message on suggesting that Hazo is in the process of healing and will be available to confirm in person shortly.
Frankly aside from having absolute knowledge that these failsafes exist (so he can state it with confidence under interrogation), Hazo should be left in the dark about the details so he can't be used to subvert them. Trust in people like Cannai, Kei, or Mari to understand the dangers inherent in either this information getting out when it shouldn't, or this information not getting out when it should, and act accordingly.
A month is long enough for Oro to dribble the rift scar to a secret location, turn around, and team up with Leopard+Pangolin+other allies to kill Cannai.
I appriciate the sentiment, but Cannai's the best choice, I don't think anyone else anyone has a summon in dog right now, and it lets Cannai check in on Hazou firsthand.
There is a vast middle ground to explore there, making it both difficult to disarm AND difficult to trigger accidentally. Either case can be considered a bad end not just for Hazo, but potentially the whole world. I don't think giving Cannai more wiggle room to not set off the deadman necessarily leads to Orochimaru having a greater chance of diffusing it as a result. For Orochimaru to act, it would require 3 things
I don't see why, there's no storm formation inside a FD. If you have a proposed mechanism as to how the FD is destroyed I'll consider it more
I'll put this in soonish. WC getting tight although perhaps this is worth 399
By what mechanism can Hazou be subverted via Shadow Clone? Oro isn't a genjutsu user. I think this is overly paranoid and I'm not going to bother coming up with something. If you come up with it yourself and it's a reasonable number of words I'll include it.
This countermeasure is for the entire span of time we work with Oro, including after we kill the Akatsuki and take the rift; not only for the first conversation with him. The core threat model is that he kills us immediately after the Akatsuki, or arranges for us to die during the battle; not before.
Oaths can be flexible, such as "if Oro acts against me, make a strong effort to spread runecrafting in a way such that it denies Orochimaru the exact outcome he aimed at by acting against me".
There should still be ultra cold superfluid, right? I'm worried that will damage the physical rune responsible for the FD, as the FD rune needs to be inside the FD.
Thanks.
I'm assuming that if Oro can find us, he(or an SC, or a Snake) can take us down without permitting us to reverse-summon.
Come on is nobody going to engage with this? I thought this line was kind of inspired, honestly.
What.
Example failure mode: Oro leaves us alive, but steals the Rift. Cannai interprets that as him acting against us (because it is) and proceeds to spread runecrafting according to his oaths, despite us being alive and well. Obviously this is patchable by providing a more specific definition of "acts against me" - but you get the point. Plus, if you're going to use vague oaths, why use oaths at all? If Cannai decided he didn't want to keep that promise there's more than enough room to technically fulfill it while not actually doing anything significant, like by sharing part of the notes with someone (not the exact outcome Oro was aiming for) but not enough for them to learn runecrafting.
Irrelevant to your actual point, but liquid air is not a superfluid (at least, not unless the rune can get very close to absolute zero).
Also mostly irrelevant, but biological excreta from shadow clones vanish when they do; it seems likely that this also applies to scent traces, meaning that shadow clones can't be tracked by scent after they pop unless they're carrying something scented.
I think you've dramatically misread me. Sorry if I was unclear.
Just a normal cold liquid. About liquid N2 temps, you can freeze rocks in that and they'll be fine -- if substantially more brittle than they would be at room temp. You can watch videos of people freezing things in liquid N2 and shattering them it's not destructive to basically any objects.
I don't necessarily feel this is a reasonable assumption. We can ask Mari/Kei about this if you want.
I'm fine with Kei having access to a dead man's switch we don't know about. We can do 2, one with Kagome and one with Cannai.
Force dome's transparent to visible light, could have slow but steady radiant energy transfer that way. Doesn't need to heat up all the way back to STP to prevent a violent reaction after the superchiller shuts off, just a few degrees to boil the liquid oxygen and nitrogen. Crust of ice - water and possibly even CO2 - would tend to accumulate on the outside of the dome, rather than more extreme convective effects. What enabled the hellstorm was incoming air being chilled far faster than would normally be thermodynamically possible at constant pressure.
Thanks for the clarification. You are usually so reasonable that I was totally shocked to find myself disagreeing with you 😅
(We did do anti-Oro runes, though. The whole chain of rift-moving runes only makes sense in the context where we don't expect to coordinate rift-stealing with Oro, i. e., where we intend to steal it from under his nose too. Otherwise it's pointless redundant work.
Yes easily. We lost maybe 33% of total research output by duplicating his work on Rift Runes. Seems like a terrible decision in hindsight but it is what it is.
I definitely feel a little smug since I thought rift runes where a mistake to do first
As you should be!
