Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Which is why it's crucial to ensure that the Gouketsu Clan's members get absorbed into the Nara. If they're all sitting on the Gouketsu estate, neatly packaged for AoE ninjutsu, then of course they're all vulnerable to Hidan/Itachi Hidaning/Itachiing them. If they're diluted among the Nara or the general Leaf population? Then the essies would need to track them down individually, sorting out a ton of paperwork, OR conduct an indiscriminate massacre of Leaf civilians in the middle of Leaf.
And I don't buy that they'd do the latter. That won't even send any message to us or punish us, since they wouldn't be slaughtering our civilians. It would just be a totally arbitrary thing to do. They may as well go kill some Rock civilians instead.
Note that my current main objection to changing out the blood is that it may clue Orochimaru in regarding our intent to leave. He has all the pieces to figure it out:
- We've leaked to him that we're wary of the Akatsuki stealing our research.
- We've been coy about the reasons for the Akatsuki's interest in us, suggesting something major we're hiding.
- We've just finished with the Dragonwar, explaining why we'd do it now and not months earlier.
- Hazou's Severe recently healed (something he'd doubtlessly be able to notice), explaining why we'd do it now and not months earlier.
- We've previously asked him specifically for camouflage jutsu.
- He himself is very familiar with the idea of going missing to pursue his research; unlike other Leaf ninja, this hypothesis would easily occur to him.
He'd do his best to prevent us from leaving, if he realizes.
So we must not let him realize.
And suddenly approaching him with "hey, I've suddenly changed my mind, can you make it so Hidan can't track me after all?" may well clue him in.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Do you think it'd be viable to ask him to do it after we've left? I intend to get in contact with him on the Seventh Path to try and secure his cooperation for necromancy and/or anti-Akatsuki measures, on the rationale that if we can un-reverse-summon at any moment to an unknown location we cannot be forcibly put under Orochimaru's power like if we were in his Basement. I originally imagined we would also solely contact him through Shadow Clone for an extra layer of security, but if we meet in person he should probably be able to perform the operation there.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X][MissingWhen] I want us to not go missing
This seems dumb. Frankly I've been disappointed with most decisions by QMs and voters since the EM Nuke fiasco (I honestly believe the QMs should have just ruled that as 'no it doesn't work like that because the implications would not be good for the story') and another massive shift like this for seemingly arbitrary and stupid reasons (as I perceive what I understand to be the thread's reasoning anyway, I am not casting aspersions on anyone here I just don't get it) would probably cause me to just stop reading. It doesn't improve the narrative imo.
Hell, I don't even care about the stupid necromancy plotline, it was dumb from the start and has just acted as a cancer on the narrative and the decision-calculus of the thread. If the result is anything other than 'you get a withered husk of a Jiraiya who doesn't even recognise Naruto's face let alone Hazou's' I'd be incredibly surprised. Despising and opposing death for irrationally emotional reasons is one of things about 'rational thought' that I just find utter umbrage with and I hate how it derails every ratfic/quest/whatever into RAGE AGAINST MORTALITY shit.
EDIT: Sorry, that was some frustration that's built up over a while. I'll probably just take a break from reading in general, because the seeming mood of the thread doesn't really align with my hopes and reading won't be productive for my mood at all.
This seems dumb. Frankly I've been disappointed with most decisions by QMs and voters since the EM Nuke fiasco (I honestly believe the QMs should have just ruled that as 'no it doesn't work like that because the implications would not be good for the story') and another massive shift like this for seemingly arbitrary and stupid reasons (as I perceive what I understand to be the thread's reasoning anyway, I am not casting aspersions on anyone here I just don't get it) would probably cause me to just stop reading. It doesn't improve the narrative imo.
Hell, I don't even care about the stupid necromancy plotline, it was dumb from the start and has just acted as a cancer on the narrative and the decision-calculus of the thread. If the result is anything other than 'you get a withered husk of a Jiraiya who doesn't even recognise Naruto's face let alone Hazou's' I'd be incredibly surprised. Despising and opposing death for irrationally emotional reasons is one of things about 'rational thought' that I just find utter umbrage with and I hate how it derails every ratfic/quest/whatever into RAGE AGAINST MORTALITY shit.
EDIT: Sorry, that was some frustration that's built up over a while. I'll probably just take a break from reading in general, because the seeming mood of the thread doesn't really align with my hopes and reading won't be productive for my mood at all.
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I don't think you realize how fanatically devoted we all are to simulationism. (I mean, the grue exists, but it follows certain rules. AFAICT the QMs don't deploy it unless certain conditions are met.)
The idea is to try to do something awesome or die trying, instead of sticking around in Leaf for years being everyone's loot piñata. Which in my opinion, is much better for the narrative.
You're right about that lmao
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Don't hold back, Shane. Tell us how you really feel and don't worry about those polite circumlocutions you've been using.
One thing I will reassure you on: I am not willing to write a Jiraiya or Akane with dementia. Either you won't get them back or they'll recognize everyone and have the large majority of their personal memories. Maybe they've lost some jutsu or dropped some levels in Taijutsu etc, maybe there are a handful of minor experiences they've forgotten, but they'll remember who everyone is and the vast majority of their lived experience, and they won't have more than the usual amount of trouble remembering things going forward.
I'm saying this without even talking to the others because it's an absolute dealbreaker for me. I would quit the quest before I would write a Jiraiya or Akane with dementia symptoms.
EDIT: @Paperclipped and @Velorien have since told me that they wholeheartedly agree with my stance.
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Calling it right now: Jiraiya doesn't remember any forbidden lore.
I will have Hazou beat it out of him with a lead pipe
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Well, the particular circumstances of Elemental Mastery aren't quite so cut and dry.
This is an old jutsu, old enough that when it was introduced the mechanics were still calibrated such that a Jounin's capstone stat would be 20, not 60. The way Elemental Mastery scaled, 5 degrees C every level, was completely harmless in that system. To get to nuke levels you'd need to reach level 40 in the technique, something equivalent to about level 120 in modern FtD.
But then the balancing changed, Jounin capstones became 60, and level 40 became a mere chuunin-level investment. By rights, the jutsu's scaling should have changed accordingly, 5/3 degrees C every level, but instead EM fell through the cracks and wasn't updated in any way.
When it came to the QM's attention, it could have gone either way. We hadn't put any XP into the technique, so we actually didn't know how strong it was or how it scaled or anything. There were no in-universe data points to contradict, and the intended use case of the jutsu was so banal that it didn't matter if the Isanese were leveling the jutsu to level 2 or 6 in their offscreen hypothetical character sheets. The world would look the same regardless of which scaling they chose, and there were no compelling simulationist reasons why it ought to be one way or the other. Both were plausible, both were permitted.
So the QMs looked at the jutsu and consciously decided to keep the stronger scaling, the one that permits a nuke. It would have made just as much sense, been just as in-keeping with simulationism, to cut its scaling by a factor of three, but the QMs decided they preferred it this way. And I mean, I can absolutely see why. The EM Nuke is very cool (no pun intended), and allowing it means that after all these years of chasing WMDs Hazou would finally create something worthy of the title. It also creates interesting new problems and questlines for our heroes to address, even bringing Isan back into focus as the question of proliferation looms overhead.
This is the part where the fanatical devotion to simulationism comes in, really. Back in the Swamp, way back at the start of the quest, the QMs really thought that we would be building a village there, a close-knit community full of dangers and fledgeling geopolitics. Unfortunately, when they considered the state of the board they were forced to conclude that Hidden Swamp was doomed, with Zabuza on our tail and Leaf unwilling to stop him. And so Hidden Swamp died, not because the QMs wanted that outcome but because the state of the board, upon consideration, demanded a certain outcome.
With the EM Nuke it was our testing procedures. We already stretched belief as much as possible ensuring Hazou and Akane would be at a plausibly safe distance and that we wouldn't be literally nuking Leaf on our first attempt, but when we returned to Leaf it quickly became apparent that no action on our part could keep the nuke secret. From there it fell into Asuma's hands, and the doomsday-prevention cabal formed, and the fate of the EM Nuke storyline rested primarily in the hands of Asuma and Shikamaru. Coincidentally, this new board-state also coincided with the novel development that Asuma gained the ability to outright wipe a village off the map with a single jutsu. Fancy that.
I can't say that the outcome was inevitable at that point, and I can't say with certainty that it was the right choice (even now, there are various risk vectors floating around which may bring about the doomsday of ice and storm anyways), but the storyline was already in motion and the QMs were not in a position to undo it without fully breaking simulationism. This may have even led to the deaths of Akane and Asuma, if some of our theories about the suspicious circumstances around their deaths are correct, but if that's what simulationism demands then the QMs aren't in a position to refuse.
The existence of the nuke is, I would say, an intentional QM choice. But the consequences of the nuke, from Leaf acquiring it to the doomsday-prevention cabal to the many and varied different kinds of fallout that may or may not have happened as a result of our choices, I don't think the QMs had all that in mind when they approved EM's balancing. After all, half the point of simulationism is that the world gets to take on a life of its own and do things you never expected.
- Location
- Central Standard Time
The vote's skewed, but that's more reason to express this opinion on the record.
[X][MissingWhen] I want us to not go missing
And also, a tactical vote:
[X][MissingWhen] Write in: I'd rather not go missing than have all of Team Uplift go missing
[X][MissingWhen] I want us to not go missing
And also, a tactical vote:
[X][MissingWhen] Write in: I'd rather not go missing than have all of Team Uplift go missing
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- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
If we are just taking off filters amd blurting out things then my current gripe is that voters have faaaaar too much hopium and seem like they can do whatever feels right/good to do without modeling any NPCs inner lives or reasoning. This whole "leave with the whole family and manage to keep them safe and happy" is so ludicrously optimistic that from my side it sounds more like wishful thinking than like anything that can be called a plan. It's like people are incapable of modeling what they would do if this happened and they were playing Naruto-Quest, or Shikamaru-Quest, or Ritsuo-Quest, or Itachi-Quest, or Pantsaa-Quest, or Haru-Quest.
And no, I don't mean just in this situation. There have been lots and lots of votes and suggestions and discussions where it literally felt to me that participants were so divorced from modeling NPCs as people with inner lives that arguing with anyone about it felt like a fruitless endeavor costing too much energy and I just hoped they'd be outvoted over the natural course of the voting cycle, if I participated at all at the time. It's indeed how Hazō-pilot is written by now. He doesn't think of things that are so blatantly obvious that Kei/Mari have to talk down to him like a child. Except that's not the QMs fault, since it literally was voted in and we are so damn lucky to have sanity checkers.
Often I just shrug and accept that that's how people are some times, but right now I feel like it has massive potential to ruin too much for me to stay emotionally indifferent. And this time we don't have sanity checkers because we have to decide last minute and our checkers are very biased on this subject (and of course also people whose hearts I personally would rather not shatter in the case of Kei/Snowflake).
Edit: Most recent example would be the idea to give Yuno the Hyena scroll. Completely ludicrous, but I didn't really care to argue because Kei could do it instead. I'm pretty much just perpetually low on spoons for a long time now, so sometimes even reading and thinking about the winning plan is not quite in the cards for me. And then I end up whining about it afterwards instead, which is both useless and unfair.
Anyway, I'll probably still read the resulting story eventually, even if burning down everything we built in Leaf will be sad and hard to read.
And no, I don't mean just in this situation. There have been lots and lots of votes and suggestions and discussions where it literally felt to me that participants were so divorced from modeling NPCs as people with inner lives that arguing with anyone about it felt like a fruitless endeavor costing too much energy and I just hoped they'd be outvoted over the natural course of the voting cycle, if I participated at all at the time. It's indeed how Hazō-pilot is written by now. He doesn't think of things that are so blatantly obvious that Kei/Mari have to talk down to him like a child. Except that's not the QMs fault, since it literally was voted in and we are so damn lucky to have sanity checkers.
Often I just shrug and accept that that's how people are some times, but right now I feel like it has massive potential to ruin too much for me to stay emotionally indifferent. And this time we don't have sanity checkers because we have to decide last minute and our checkers are very biased on this subject (and of course also people whose hearts I personally would rather not shatter in the case of Kei/Snowflake).
Edit: Most recent example would be the idea to give Yuno the Hyena scroll. Completely ludicrous, but I didn't really care to argue because Kei could do it instead. I'm pretty much just perpetually low on spoons for a long time now, so sometimes even reading and thinking about the winning plan is not quite in the cards for me. And then I end up whining about it afterwards instead, which is both useless and unfair.
Anyway, I'll probably still read the resulting story eventually, even if burning down everything we built in Leaf will be sad and hard to read.
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- Pronouns
- They/Them
My issue with purported simulationism is that it keeps seeming to conform to the same tropes, specifically where you have the necessary caveat that no one has yet killed all civilisation, so either that is really damn hard or everyone else is just stupid and doesn't think-good. And I'm kinda burned out by just... the existence of the SI genre on the concept of 'protagonist is just better at think-good than everyone else so gets really strong' and anything that even resembles it at a distance gets my hackles up.
That's not a good idea. I am currently on my 'last chance' according to the Staff, in part due to infractions in this thread and will not get 'another' chance in a time frame of less than a year of impeccable behaviour at least.
This is why I stopped trying to engage and just read. I tried to bring this up and offer my actual damn training/education as a social worker to help explain why the models weren't accurate, but that didn't go well so I stopped entirely.
Oh and has anyone considered the evidence we have that a) the cosmos in this setting is deliberately engineered, b) that souls passing to other realms is an intended function of that massive nigh-incomprehensible system and c) that disrupting this will either cause a failure cascade in ways we can't understand or imagine or just get the sysadmin to be really fucking pissed at Hazou in particular?
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
As the person who came up with that idea (as opposed to suggesting Mari for the scroll), I can maybe help share my perspective and mindset through that decision.
The conversation as a whole was a brainstorming session on how to protect Hyena from Pangolin advances. We were in particular talking about the strategic value of a Summoner and how a good summoner could potentially make a big difference against the Pangolins. When I came into the conversation, someone had suggested that Mari would be a good choice for the role, since they believed that a genjutsu-spec Elite Jounin would be very powerful against Pangolins.
My initial line of thought was that Mari would be a bad fit for the Hyena's needs, actually, as her genjutsu don't work on non-humans and her Taijutsu is a tertiary specialization. Then I cast around and recalled Yuno, and quickly realized that in terms of skillset compatibility she would in fact be exactly what the Hyenas needed.
I admit, I didn't take her thoughts into consideration. This was primarily a brainstorming session about what was even possible to do to help Hyena, after all. I did think about it a few minutes later though, and (simultaneously with Shrooms) ventured that she might disagree with the arrangement. I wasn't sure if she would disapprove or not, though, since I don't actually have a very good read on Yuno. Does she hate Isan, or love it? Does she want the people there dead, or does she prefer they live? Does she want them to live specifically so they can die by her hand? What does she think about the Pangolins after all the religious upheavals in recent years? Are they still divine to her? Does she still feel reverence towards them? I genuinely didn't know the answer.
So, wanting to pursue this route of inquiry IFF Yuno would be okay with it, I supported putting this route of inquiry into the plan with sanity checker support. And when the sanity checker veto'd the idea, well, that was well within my expectations of plausible outcomes here.
If I had to pinpoint the problem here, it's that I had no way of resolving my OOC confusion without resorting to an IC external sanity checker like Kei. Begging faflec to dispense his ancient wisdom aside, it occurs to me that at no point during this did we ask Hazoupilot what he thinks Yuno would think about the proposal. It's a little odd to parse, but I can't say there's a compelling reason why Hazoupilot can't be one of our sanity checkers. And something Hazoupilot does catch, like perhaps "oh yeah Yuno still thinks Pangolins are divine she would not be on board with killing them", would save us just a little bit more of that "Hazou looks like a fool in front of others" trouble (though I do feel this last one was very well-handled and not egregious or painful for me to read, as Kei kept her critique moderated and Hazou didn't go full doormat).
But ultimately, from the perspective of a planmaker, there are always going to be things that we simply don't know that IC characters do, and so we will always have to write into our action plans "we're thinking of doing X but we're not sure of Y, please sanity check with Z". The QMs don't like us pinging them too much for character opinions between chapters after all, even if we pushed that angle as far as it went we'd still have plenty of moments where an idea needs to get put into an action plan before we can know if it's a nonstarter or not. That might seem like we aren't even trying, but from my perspective I did everything I could without making assumptions and then I reached out to the people who would have the answers to any questions I couldn't solve on my own. I'm not sure there's a qualitatively better methodology I could be doing here instead.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm fairly confident that was sarcasm, insofar as you were coming across as being direct to the point of rudeness where people would typically use a basic degree of polite circumlocution to avoid offending others unnecessarily.
Spector29
It Only Gets Worse From Here
This is more or less where I'm at. Short of coming back with Jiraiya and pretty much every best-possible outcome, any reflection or memories of the relationships we have here become at-best bittersweet. Given just the content of the updates, it doesn't feel like we actually have a path to that kind of victory. The idea of going missing-nin just makes me feel hopeless, really.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yes. Unironically, yes to all those things. The effects of childhood emotional abuse are fucking awful.
Frankly this is me being circumspect. This is me doing my best to assume grace about decisions and priorities that just don't make sense to me in any way. I'm sorry if that reads as rude, it is not my intention to offend anyone in any way and I'm really trying to do it right and it really sucks that apparently it's not working at all.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Even very recently I still remember her revering/respecting Kei because of her status as Pangolin Summoner. That doesn't happen in a world where she now has indifferent-to-negative opinions on the Pangolin.
And even without taking that into account, having two family members participate in a lethal war on opposing sides just doesn't really work. And Kei has far too little pull with the Pangolin Empire in order for said Empire to change their invasion plans because Kei's sister in law has now suddenly been manuevered into being a Hyena combatant by Hazō.
Oh, that wasn't an issue I had with Kei this chapter. She was very calm and restrained. In her place I'd have thunked my head on the table in exasperation.
I don't think it's a question of methodology. It just often feels as if there is a general lack of fictional people and fuctional cultures modeling skills among our community, so that considerations that would arise from that don't have an easy way of making it into the plans. But also that said lack of skill isn't recognized, so people with those skills (and I'm not even really counting myself because I don't participate enough for mostly separate reasons from just that) feel like their concerns fall on deaf ears.
Suggestions for the future:
- Avoid disparaging terms like stupid/dumb even when it feels that putting qualifiers like "seemingly" should be enough. It isn't. "You look stupid to me" is still an insult.
- Try and remember what the author enjoys about their passion project. If, for instance, you have noticed that eaglejarl is very fond of the whole necromancy project thing, don't shit all over it from multiple angles. There's more diplomatic ways of explaining why it is not for you.
- Don't go into a community that's nearly dominated by a certain subculture and outright disparage said subculture. Arguing with and questioning elements of the subculture can work, but not if you represent yourself as being above it and disliking it in general.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
[X] Lore Update
[X] (Non-Binding) Treasonous Meetings
I must admit that it's also frustrating to see a criticism levied against me that includes "but you also don't recognize this flaw" because that props up your argument with an endless circle of "ah, but you just say that you don't have this flaw because you have already been blinded to it!" I am left feeling like there is nothing I could say or show that would convince you to change your mind, that you have already reached your conclusion and are just attempting to shame me - or rather, the model of me that you have in your head - for not living up to your standards.
I don't think you are actually approaching this in such a way, of course, but your words have been frustrating and a little hurtful all the same. I do try to model these fictional people and cultures, after all, and I showed you an example where I and others spent time doing just that, and receiving a criticism that reads as "nah, I still think you suck, and also you're epistemically compromised in a way that makes it impossible to meaningfully disagree with me" stings the pride of my honest and earnest attempts to do exactly the thing you wish me to do.
From my side of the table, I feel as if I have outlined a reason why it might appear to people not involved in the planmaking process that the planmakers do not think about these things, when it is actually true that the planmakers do think about these things a lot and simply do not always reach confidence about their answers. As someone frequently involved in the planmaking process, and very present for these moments, I am much more likely to say that this is the main factor at play here than I am to say that every planmaker is socially deficient and epistemically compromised. With respect, please do not levy accusations against our character like that without more tangible evidence to back it up. I understand that you were merely expressing a vague feeling you have, but it is still a hurtful accusation that should not be exercised carelessly.
[X] (Non-Binding) Treasonous Meetings
I see where you're coming from, but I can't help but feel like after I thoroughly outlined a salient scenario where I and others did actively work to model the relevant fictional characters and largely stopped for a lack of information (that you had more information is not relevant to this, I must note) and you just turned around and repeated that you think we don't do this thing. The impression this segment conveyed to me is, rather, that you have an underlying sentiment feeling regarding the overall state of the situation and are using that as your lodestone in a way that I can't really engage with in any way.
I must admit that it's also frustrating to see a criticism levied against me that includes "but you also don't recognize this flaw" because that props up your argument with an endless circle of "ah, but you just say that you don't have this flaw because you have already been blinded to it!" I am left feeling like there is nothing I could say or show that would convince you to change your mind, that you have already reached your conclusion and are just attempting to shame me - or rather, the model of me that you have in your head - for not living up to your standards.
I don't think you are actually approaching this in such a way, of course, but your words have been frustrating and a little hurtful all the same. I do try to model these fictional people and cultures, after all, and I showed you an example where I and others spent time doing just that, and receiving a criticism that reads as "nah, I still think you suck, and also you're epistemically compromised in a way that makes it impossible to meaningfully disagree with me" stings the pride of my honest and earnest attempts to do exactly the thing you wish me to do.
From my side of the table, I feel as if I have outlined a reason why it might appear to people not involved in the planmaking process that the planmakers do not think about these things, when it is actually true that the planmakers do think about these things a lot and simply do not always reach confidence about their answers. As someone frequently involved in the planmaking process, and very present for these moments, I am much more likely to say that this is the main factor at play here than I am to say that every planmaker is socially deficient and epistemically compromised. With respect, please do not levy accusations against our character like that without more tangible evidence to back it up. I understand that you were merely expressing a vague feeling you have, but it is still a hurtful accusation that should not be exercised carelessly.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Eh.
I can sympathize with "Players bad" and related sentiments only to the extent that if you hand me an instance of us dropping a ball I'll say "Yeah the ball was probably dropped there, oopsies", but most of those ultimately weren't a big deal. Sucks that they happened, but everyone in here has finite time, and I respect the hustle from everyone who actually sacrifices a few hours (sometimes much more than that!) of their week or weekend to put action plans together, optimize them, and update them throughout. There are many weeks where I don't have the time for that anymore, so hats off to everyone who does that. *offers fistbumps*
I think some folks have some preconceived notions of how this whole quest thing works and they pop in from time to time to let everyone know their opinions on some chapters. I don't generally get much from that when it happens, because for a lot of reasons this quest ain't like others when it comes down to it (and I've read a lot of those over the years. #BlameDanzoGang), so "why did you vote to do [insert dumb thing]" is generally a bit eyeroll inducing. To those folks I would say: spend a few months participating in thread and see for yourself.
(Those same folks don't tend to recognize the perception bias there either or chime in about big wins either, I note. Those don't just come from a hat, those were earned.
)
If you read this story and you want "Marked for Death, Story Only, With A Slightly More Competent and Less Inept Hazou, And Maybe Less Ruthless Simulationist Consequences" or whatever then I'm sure our lovely and talented authors have a price for that. Throw money and laurels at them or something for that, but that's not my wheelhouse. I'm just a chick in this thread that tries to keep the ball rolling, and to that end...
*shrugs*
Personally, I'm not here to play out 60-100 chapters of fluffy interactions, comedic social chicanery, and firehose political problems in this village (while the village yoinks FOOM at the start of it ) only for Nagato and co to just pop in at the end there and declare themselves King Shits of Fuck Mountain now that they've got the whole world by the metaphorical balls or whatever. From where I stand, that's playing to lose, and I'm not here for that.
I'm here to win the game and to try to get a good ending both for the setting, and for these characters we've spent so much time with.
If we go down swinging then we go down swinging. That's fine. Fair ball.
I can sympathize with "Players bad" and related sentiments only to the extent that if you hand me an instance of us dropping a ball I'll say "Yeah the ball was probably dropped there, oopsies", but most of those ultimately weren't a big deal. Sucks that they happened, but everyone in here has finite time, and I respect the hustle from everyone who actually sacrifices a few hours (sometimes much more than that!) of their week or weekend to put action plans together, optimize them, and update them throughout. There are many weeks where I don't have the time for that anymore, so hats off to everyone who does that. *offers fistbumps*
I think some folks have some preconceived notions of how this whole quest thing works and they pop in from time to time to let everyone know their opinions on some chapters. I don't generally get much from that when it happens, because for a lot of reasons this quest ain't like others when it comes down to it (and I've read a lot of those over the years. #BlameDanzoGang), so "why did you vote to do [insert dumb thing]" is generally a bit eyeroll inducing. To those folks I would say: spend a few months participating in thread and see for yourself.
(Those same folks don't tend to recognize the perception bias there either or chime in about big wins either, I note. Those don't just come from a hat, those were earned.
)If you read this story and you want "Marked for Death, Story Only, With A Slightly More Competent and Less Inept Hazou, And Maybe Less Ruthless Simulationist Consequences" or whatever then I'm sure our lovely and talented authors have a price for that. Throw money and laurels at them or something for that, but that's not my wheelhouse. I'm just a chick in this thread that tries to keep the ball rolling, and to that end...
*shrugs*
Personally, I'm not here to play out 60-100 chapters of fluffy interactions, comedic social chicanery, and firehose political problems in this village (while the village yoinks FOOM at the start of it ) only for Nagato and co to just pop in at the end there and declare themselves King Shits of Fuck Mountain now that they've got the whole world by the metaphorical balls or whatever. From where I stand, that's playing to lose, and I'm not here for that.
I'm here to win the game and to try to get a good ending both for the setting, and for these characters we've spent so much time with.
If we go down swinging then we go down swinging. That's fine. Fair ball.
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- Location
- Europe
Mari has Jonin combat stats, three elements, is probably good enough at long range, has SC and has Sealing support.
Mari is also experienced enough to deal with whatever politics is going on. Ruri managed to survive with a lot less support, Mari would have Hazou and Noburi to talk to the other 7th clans in preperation.
Yuno being a young jonin that is good at chakra monster stuff doesn't really compare to that.
And if the Hyena don't want a Goketsu summoner and/or be the Dog's ally, its their loss. Have fun with the Pangolin.
- Location
- U.S.
[X][MissingWhen] I want to go missing but not until certain things have happened
[X][MissingWhen] I want us to not go missing
[X][MissingHow] Take a long-term mission so that we are expected to be out of Leaf for a few weeks / months, then don't come back
[X][MissingWho] Hazō and Kagome
Going missing is, in my mind, a 'do or die'. We either pull it off or we're fucked. I would want a lot more prep and a much firmer and straightfoward plan; in the ideal scenario, we'd have some good runes ABC prepped or researched, and we'd maybe somehow verify we can do the specific Rift runes/seals XYZ we want with our current skills.
Then we go missing. We use Rune ABC, research Rift Runes XYZ, pull off the Rift Heist. And then we address the actually-quite-difficult problem of exploring and retrieving people from unknown, hostile, chakra-less land which we haven't even touched on yet.
This should be less a vague thing and more a Ocean's Eleven-style plan. We verify everything we reasonably can, get a solid gameplan with fallback options, then we execute it. This is the proper way to handle a very risky play like this, and I don't know if we've done it to a degree that seems workable to me.
[X][MissingWhen] I want us to not go missing
[X][MissingHow] Take a long-term mission so that we are expected to be out of Leaf for a few weeks / months, then don't come back
[X][MissingWho] Hazō and Kagome
Going missing is, in my mind, a 'do or die'. We either pull it off or we're fucked. I would want a lot more prep and a much firmer and straightfoward plan; in the ideal scenario, we'd have some good runes ABC prepped or researched, and we'd maybe somehow verify we can do the specific Rift runes/seals XYZ we want with our current skills.
Then we go missing. We use Rune ABC, research Rift Runes XYZ, pull off the Rift Heist. And then we address the actually-quite-difficult problem of exploring and retrieving people from unknown, hostile, chakra-less land which we haven't even touched on yet.
This should be less a vague thing and more a Ocean's Eleven-style plan. We verify everything we reasonably can, get a solid gameplan with fallback options, then we execute it. This is the proper way to handle a very risky play like this, and I don't know if we've done it to a degree that seems workable to me.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
The "keep them safe and happy" part may or may not be the case, but -- I think that not giving them the option to join us would be a massive snub to them. If any of them choose not to, that's fine. We're not going to keep them from returning to Leaf (or, at least, I do not intend to).
And -- the one I would be least sure about, Kei, has previously been willing to help cover up high treason for us. (I mean, we didn't do it, that time, but that's indicative of the level of care she has for Hazou. And if she has some other idea for how to solve this problem, we'll be all ears for it.
That said, regarding spoons on engaging with the planmaking process as a whole: Fucking mood. It's a struggle to engage with at the best of times through no fault of the QMs.
Vote closed
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
