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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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acidshill said:
IMO MfD has had serious structural problems, in terms of the narrative, for at least several years now, and one of the major redeeming qualities has been the light at the end of the tunnel that one day all of our effort will pay off and Hazō will get to do really cool things. And I think that light is fading
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I don't disagree. I've been saying for years that MfD would be much more enjoyable as a story if it was not a quest. Interacting with such a doomed world is not enjoyable. Convincing people to not murderhobo is not enjoyable.

I have been around since the story's beginning and the feel of the story has changed wildly since then. It used to feel like we could do anything. Now we are more powerful than ever and our options feel oh so limited.

I'm still here because the actual writing is stellar, the QMs are good people, and I enjoy interacting with most of the player base. I like the PCs and a handful of the NPCs.

DanZapman said:
Every established player is also so ridiculously strong that even if we'd gone for an entirely different build and made current Hazo a punchjonin who tried to fight them he'd just have died on contact with them
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I've been told over and over that this is wrong. Most essies have jonin stats and some zany ability. We would have decent odds of beating most of them if we prioritized punching stats and materialized our own zanyness.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I've been told over and over that this is wrong. Most essies have jonin stats and some zany ability. We would have decent odds of beating most of them if we prioritized punching stats and materialized our own zanyness.
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Sure, in general Essie terms I could get behind that. For example, Mari or Kakashi or Gai or even Zabuza all seem like they're reasonable to fight if you have info and prep for their tricks beforehand. For what we specifically learned about the Akatsuki dossiers, I have no idea how Hazo would be expected to go toe-to-toe with them. Especially Itachi or Konan.
 
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DanZapman said:
Konan
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I think there's a non-zero chance we can negate Konan's existence as chakra if we make a powerful enough version of the Human-Chakra-Gathering Rune we have been planning. It likely won't work on regular people since their chakra is tied up in their physical bodies, but the moment Konan tries to disassociate, she will hopefully get sucked up.

Granted, I think she will just turn back to physical form in response, but it does mean that we can lock her down and fight her as a "normal" Essie.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I think there's a non-zero chance we can negate Konan's existence as chakra if we make a powerful enough version of the Human-Chakra-Gathering Rune we have been planning. It likely won't work on regular people since their chakra is tied up in their physical bodies, but the moment Konan tries to disassociate, she will hopefully get sucked up.

Granted, I think she will just turn back to physical form in response, but it does mean that we can lock her down and fight her as a "normal" Essie.
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I'm discussing the counterfactual Hazo where we went all in on punching instead of sealing. I agree that Hazo-the-sealmaster can do something about Konan's weird seal-based tricks. I see no plausible route for Hazo-the-facepuncher to do something about it.
 
DanZapman said:
I'm discussing the counterfactual Hazo where we went all in on punching instead of sealing. I agree that Hazo-the-sealmaster can do something about Konan's weird seal-based tricks. I see no plausible route for Hazo-the-facepuncher to do something about it.
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Punch her until she runs out of chakra? She does not have unlimited amounts. Essie combat is more paper rock scissors than anything else. It's a bad matchup, sure, but Punch-Hazo could conceivably defat Kakuzu, Hidan, Sasori, Kisame, Deidara, and/or maybe Itachi. Itachi would be the toughest of those as you seemingly can't dodge Amaterasu.
 
SMH what kind of rational quest would it be if you didn't have to overcome enemies significantly stronger than you somehow. If 11 year olds can contend with century old dark wizards we can handle a few punks with fancy eyes. We've already beaten a few apocalypses already

Dig deep and find your inner minmaxer and meld it with the true Shonen strength to ball beyond your limits
 
ProperAttorney said:
Punch her until she runs out of chakra?
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Sure. And what do you do when she doesn't stand still to be punched to death? Or lets you punch the bits of her that blow up in your face and kill you? According to the dossier, her being a swarm of seals is her default form now and she only assumes the human form out of nostalgia so it doesn't seem to be difficult to maintain even if Oro's guess isn't literally true. I also expect Oro to be correct when he mentions that Konan's happy to just toss lots of seals at a problem like exploding some guy trying to punch a swarm of paper.

Shrooms said:
SMH what kind of rational quest would it be if you didn't have to overcome enemies significantly stronger than you somehow. If 11 year olds can contend with century old dark wizards we can handle a few punks with fancy eyes. We've already beaten a few apocalypses already
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To be clear- I agree. Recent discussions about Hazo's use of his XP and time made me consider how many of his problems could be solved with just punching specifically and I expect ~0 of the apocalypses could be punched into submission by Hazo himself, or even Hazo, Noburi, Kei, and Mari together.
 
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Problems.
1. Akatsuki revives Pain.
2. Akatsuki steals our research.
3. Akatsuki interrogates Leaf if anything happens to the rift.
4. Orochimaru steals our research.
5. Tower spies.
6. Sharing FOOM.
 
DanZapman said:
Sure. And what do you do when she doesn't stand still to be punched to death? Or lets you punch the bits of her that blow up in your face and kill you? According to the dossier, her being a swarm of seals is her default form now and she only assumes the human form out of nostalgia so it doesn't seem to be difficult to maintain even if Oro's guess isn't literally true. I also expect Oro to be correct when he mentions that Konan's happy to just toss lots of seals at a problem like exploding some guy trying to punch a swarm of paper
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You dodge long enough for your teammates to use jutsu against her. Like I said, paper rock scissors. You won't win every matchup. Punch-Hazo will have to be content with only being able to beat 5/7 Akatsuki members.
 
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What To Do Before Leaving Leaf: Faflec's Compilation
  • Informational
    • What To Do Before Leaving Leaf: Faflec's Compilation​

    Disclosure: I am not a proponent of leaving Leaf, and as such this compiliation may have biases. I have attempted to be objective when writing this. Please forgive any errors.

    Summary: This is an attempt at listing out what members of the hivemind have suggested we do before leaving Leaf, and my personal thoughts of how important these things are in order for us to succeed in our goal.

    The Plan to Outrace Akatsuki:
    1. Successfully develop a method to open, move, and/or close the rift.
    2. Successfully gain access to the afterlife rift.
    3. Using the method developed previously, move the rift to a secure location.
    4. Explore the rift and rescue Jiraiya et al.
    5. Return to Leaf as epic heroes.
    A To-Do List Before Leaving Leaf:
    1. Secure allies: This section lists out groups or individuals we want (or need!) to get on our side before leaving.
      • Cannai/The Dog Clan:
        • Justification: If Hazou is to succeed while being hunted as a missing-nin by Akatsuki and the EN as a whole, he needs a secure location to do dimensionalism research. The Seventh Path, as Naruto and Hazou discussed previously, is the best location for him to do research, as it provides an isolated location that also shelters Hazou from the two Akatsuki members capable of attacking him there (Itachi & Kisame). With this as a safe zone, Hazou is free to do all the theoretical research he needs, with only minor trips to the Human Path to infuse runes (assuming Hazou does not choose to break his oath to not infuse on the Seventh Path). Cannai, as Alpha of the Dogs, has the final say on whether Hazou is allowed to use his home as a shelter against Akatsuki. Also, Cannai gives us a ton of Summons if he goes in with us on the plan, with a ridiculous number of skills that can help us.
        • Importance: Essential
        • Faflec's thoughts: If Cannai rejects us, can we even win? We'd have to spend our entire time in the Human Path, and I question our ability to evade Akatsuki, let alone survive an assault from any of their members.
      • Noburi:
        • Justification: Bringing Noburi gets us access to FOOM. His barrel and the access to additional chakra per day lets us train and gain XP faster, allowing us to level essential skills like Sealing. Over the course of months, this represents a significant glut of XP crucial for catching up and getting ahead of Akatsuki, whose chief sealmaster, Sasori, is at the pinnacle of the Sealing art. Noburi is also a Summoner and brings with him the ability to safely contact us/stay safe in the Seventh Path*, is competent enough as a medic to patch minor injuries, can enable a Zoo Rush with the right additional prepwork, and isn't shit at combat. But the FOOM thing is the most important part (sorry, Noburi).
        • Importance: Significant-Essential
        • Faflec's thoughts: Noburi's not essential in the same way that Cannai is, but his absence would make it extremely difficult for us to win (read: insane difficulty).
      • *Toads, Arachnids, Pangolins:
        • Justification: Same as Cannai for Hazou. Noburi, Kagome, and Kei need their permissions to gain Seventh Path resources and a safe zone. Not much more needs to be said.
        • Importance: Significant-Essential
        • Faflec's thoughts: Yeah, we need them on our side if we're bringing anyone with us, Noburi especially.
      • Kagome:
        • Justification: He's a competent sealmaster, has repeatedly commented on leaving Leaf, is good with traps, has spent literal years as a missing-nin, and is very much motivated to succeed. He's a Summoner, allowing him to research in the Seventh Path and can therefore be in the same safe zone as Hazou*. He's also immune to the grue and can stop Akatsuki from erasing us with it
        • Importance: Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: I don't list him as essential only because losing him doesn't ruin our ability to win the Akatsuki race; he is not a lynchpin in the way that Cannai is. Also, while we're kind of assuming Kagome joining us as a given, and it probably is, I'm starting to worry a little about Kagome's willingness to come back to Leaf with us. Only a mild worry, but it's still there.
      • Mari:
        • Justification: She's an elite Jonin, probably the best fighter we can bring with us (unless we somehow roll nat20s and convince Orochimaru), and is loyal to us. She's the only one outside of Hazou and Naruto even aware that Hazou is considering leaving, and hasn't betrayed us yet. Mari is also a skilled politician and infiltrator, and is probably the only one of us capable of entering civilization without being detected by Akatsuki.
        • Importance: Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: We should have at least one sanity-checker IMO to do our job, and Mari is the more combat-valuable member of the two. She's possibly the only one able to do anything against an actual Akatsuki member, and in terms of scouting the afterlife rift she (and appropriate Summons) are likely to be our forward scouts. She isn't a Summoner, and plans that bring her along should have getting her a Scroll as an important step, else she be a homing beacon for Akatsuki members searching for us.
      • Kei:
        • Justification: She's a Summoner and our sanity-checker alongside Mari. Unlike Mari, she gains access to the Frozen Skein to help her optimize plans; and comes with a Summoning Scroll with which she can access the same safe zone as Hazou*. Also, she has Forbidden Lore. Probably.
        • Importance: Useful-Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: Kei's the less-combat relevant member of our sanity-checkers, but already has a Summoning Scroll and doesn't have the higher immediate risk of being found by Akatsuki. It's reasonably likely that we'll find a Summoning Scroll (we have several leads), so I can't see her as being significantly more useful than Mari.
      • A Technique Hacker (Reo, Haruhisa):
        • Justification: Advanced TH is essential to further our understanding of Minato's Sealing notes, and Minatosealing may be required to successfully open the rift (it's one of two paths we're looking into, the other being runecrafting). Barring Seventh Path THers, who aren't sure they can teach us; or Mareo, who we don't even know is a THer, we will be wanting one of them. They probably have some combat skill?
        • Importance: Useful-Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: I'm not fully convinced TH is going to be the key here, but others may disagree; hence the Significant rating. But both have been indoctrinated into the Will of Fire and I'm not at all convinced that they will be willing to leave. Reo already has a sister in Leaf and Haruhisa has no real connections to us that we can use to get him to go missing with us. This is probably a crapshoot unless we're willing to trick them into going missing with us. They are also not Summoners, with the concerns that come with it.
        • Edited notes: Reo is insufficient as a TH tutor and his inclusion would serve no purpose.
      • Yuno:
        • Justification: Special Jonin in combat/chakra monster hunting. She's a good tracker and fighter. Also Noburi's wife, and is obsessive with her to the point where if we bring Noburi and not Yuno she might come after us anyway.
        • Importance: Useful
        • Faflec's thoughts: Half the justifications I've read involve her being Noburi's wife. She's useful, yes, but I would not call her a core figure to victory.
    2. Acquire resources: This section lists out resources still available to Leaf that we want or need to acquire before leaving.
      • Conversations with Orochimaru:
        • Justification: We still have timeslots with this guy, and can absolutely milk out information from him useful for us when leaving. There should be minimal issue in terms of timeslots, and good payout. This is low-hanging fruit.
        • Importance: Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: As with all things Orochimaru, caution is required. The worst-case scenario is that Orochimaru gets wind of us planning to go missing and abducts us a minute past us leaving.
      • Leaf seals/jutsu:
        • Justification: There's a lot of jutsu and seals available to a Special Jonin and Clan Head like Hazou, especially Naruto's stuff.
        • Importance: Useful-Significant
        • Faflec's thoughts: This is subject to QM spoons, sadly; is there anything we can do to help them give us stuff more easily?
      • Technique Hacking training:
        • Justification: Advanced TH is essential to further our understanding of Minato's Sealing notes, and Minatosealing may be required to successfully open the rift (it's one of two paths we're looking into, the other being runecrafting). If we don't want to learn while on the run, but do think we need TH, we need to stay in Leaf and get it done.
        • Importance: Useful
        • Faflec's thoughts: If it's a choice between getting TH and getting Noburi, we need to go for Noburi. We can survive without the former, not so much the latter.
      • Arranging the survival of our members:
        • Justification: They're our people. If we go missing, Akatsuki (read: Itachi) will do things. Things that may not be fixable by simply opening up the afterlife and taking them out of it. Itachi knows our win condition is to bring the dead back to life, and he knows he has ways to break someone that doesn't involve killing them. He may not do them, but he'll know he has that option.
        • Importance: Useful
        • Faflec's thoughts: We want to do this quietly, so nobody finds out we're planning to go missing (read: Akatsuki, Orochimaru).
    3. Plan our egress: This section lists out possible first destinations for when we leave.
      • The Forbidden Dungeon:
        • Justification: Ami pointed out there was Forbidden Lore still there, and the naming scheme leads me to believe that the Rat Summoning Scroll may be hidden in the place. It's out-of-the-way, surrounded by ocean that we can use as an anonymous Seventh Path return point, and close enough the afterlife rift that we aren't strapped for time to reach it. Further, the place likely isn't secured against flight-based technology and is thus vulnerable to a flight-based exploration plan.
        • Potential: Excellent
        • Faflec's thoughts: There's a non-zero chance that Ami pointed this place out to us as a way for her to meet up with us again. Whether this is because she wants to join us or because she set up a trap for us is left as an exercise to the reader.
      • The Desert Oasis:
        • Justification: Orochimaru claims that the place reduces chakra cost, which could help us when training. The Otter Scroll's last location was in the area, and this may be a useful staging ground if we decide to hunt that scroll.
        • Potential: Useful
        • Faflec's thoughts: The area is near Iwa, and in Sand. Orochimaru knows about the place. There is a non-trivial chance of significant combat with ninjas.
    Please ping me with suggestions or your thoughts; I would be happy to discuss and/or implement as necessary.
     
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