Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Black King · May 18, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Thrice is Nice
Word Count: <300

Mari/Kei
- Talk about getting Kagome SC. Should be easy with Dragons and his sealing, right? If not, what can we offer? Maybe mandatory OPSEC classes for Kagome?
- Get Yuno SC as well.
- Akane's mission was leaked, we need to find out how/from who and prepare accordingly. Also look into seeing if any of the rest of us are being targeted as such. Also if there are any deniable assets she knows of who could've done this
- Asking Hidan for help with tracking Akane's blood. Fine idea? He likes us, is AMITY enforcer? Ask Asuma? Ask Ami, if not?
- See about getting access to spices/items from other countries to cross-reference with Canvass for Akane's attackers. Independent of Asuma action.
Asuma
- Sanity check below with Mari
- See about getting access to spices/items from other countries to cross-reference with Canvass for Akane's attackers.
- If Mari clears, ask about Hidan's help
- Discuss getting Kagome SC for Dragonwar. More Kagome-level sealing is big help.
- Promotion to Sealing Special Jonin. Orochimaru fancies us his peer, we think it's time.
- Idea: R&D missions. You hire a ninja to research something for you as a mission via the tower. That thing is considered non-secret property of the client -- if people other than client/people they designate mod/hack/are-known-to-publically-use it then they're required to pay a fee (like how sealmasters need to pay to sell mods of someone else's seal).
  - Generates tax, encourages innovation, doesn't seem to cause significant problems in the process.
Hazou/Sealing
- Continue work on Minato's Seals (no prep, reroll -9, 12 calligraphy if chunin seal or lower).
- Use a clone to multi-thread, work on Directional Explosives (no prep, reroll -9, -12 calligraphy)
  - Once complete, do 1 day prep on Rocket Boots, if chunin seal or lower use same standards as DE, if jonin proceed with full prep.

Iris-Iven-Ibis · May 18, 2023

I thought we already tested Burning Sand Macerators for effectiveness (off-screen) guess we have to do it again if it was effective once we need to be prove it can be effective 338 times for every plan we have we have to test the effectiveness of Burning sand Macerators (off-screen) it's the only way we can be sure it's effective (off screen) and never works when we use it on screen

charlesrwest · May 18, 2023

The burning sand macerator test and the sage's answer about VD on 7th path people.

Black King · May 18, 2023

Iris-Iven-Ibis said:
I thought we already tested Burning Sand Macerators for effectiveness (off-screen)

If you can point to it, sure. I didn't see anything about it.

charlesrwest said:
The burning sand macerator test and the sage's answer about VD on 7th path people.

Would this get your vote?

Shrooms · May 18, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Thrice is Nice

I will vote for anyone who includes getting Hidan involved

charlesrwest · May 18, 2023

Black King said:
If you can point to it, sure. I didn't see anything about it.

Would this get your vote?

I am grateful for the inclusion. However, both of those items were in previous winning plans, so I am hoping it's not required?

Burning sand macerator test was in the last winning plan and VD question was in the last conclave plan.

Unaligned Player · May 18, 2023

Black King said:
Talk about getting Kagome SC. Should be easy with Dragons and his sealing, right?

Hasn't Kagome himself said something to the effect "Don't give me Shadow Clone, it'll be out of the country within a week at most."?

ProperAttorney · May 18, 2023

Black King said:
[X] Action Plan: Thrice is Nice

I don't think we can work on both Minato and directional explosives with SSA. I also don't particularly think checking those other seals matters now as we very much have to focus on the Minato seals.

Orisha91 · May 18, 2023

Very tempted to accuse the Pangolins of trying to purposely sabatoge the Conclave with a purposely botched assassination attempt and intimidating the foreign representatives with a public execution. If the conclusion is a breakdown in dialouge, then Pantsa will be satisfied. If the next best thing is to control its direction, that's a good plan b.

Black King · May 18, 2023

charlesrwest said:
I am grateful for the inclusion. However, both of those items were in previous winning plans, so I am hoping it's not required?

To my knowledge, if it's not answered in the update, it didn't happen.

Unaligned Player said:
Hasn't Kagome himself said something to the effect "Don't give me Shadow Clone, it'll be out of the country within a week at most."?

Did he? If you can find it, I'll gladly abide by his words and focus on Yuno instead.

ProperAttorney said:
I don't think we can work on both Minato and directional explosives with SSA. I also don't particularly think checking those other seals matters now as we very much have to focus on the Minato seals.

I'd argue that if we can make seals that can help us survive easily, they'd be of great help. Depending on the time of the update, we can either just make a check a day with a clone, or do them all at once and lose out on FOOM XP for a day or two. Directional Explosives can be done if we have multiple days. I suppose I should also ask if I would get your vote for removing one or both of these?

Also do you have a preference for a long or short plan (in terms of days covered)?

Cariyaga · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
I don't think we can work on both Minato and directional explosives with SSA. I also don't particularly think checking those other seals matters now as we very much have to focus on the Minato seals.

We can, now that we're at Resolve 60.

ProperAttorney · May 19, 2023

Black King said:
I'd argue that if we can make seals that can help us survive easily, they'd be of great help. Depending on the time of the update, we can either just make a check a day with a clone, or do them all at once and lose out on FOOM XP for a day or two. Directional Explosives can be done if we have multiple days. I suppose I should also ask if I would get your vote for removing one or both of these?

Also do you have a preference for a long or short plan (in terms of days covered)?

If those seals helped us with either of our two goals (Necromancy, Dragonwar), I would be inclined to research them. I just don't think they would. The only one I can see as immediately helping are the force wall shuriken for Kei, but if Kei is ever in RW range of the dragons, we've already lost. She doesn't have kage level RW, ergo she just dies. Sure she can use SC, but we've seen at least one of the dragons use mental attacks that will surely transfer along with the popped clone.
My ideal plan would be two scenes, one with Uplift in which we discuss possible sources of Akane's assassination and task Mari with investigating those possibilities, no matter how remote they may seem (Asuma, Shikamaru). Her second task is to acquire Shadow Clone for Yuno and Kagome. Full stop. Whatever she has to do. Hazo's task will be working on the Minato line of seals. If Resolve 60 means we can do two SSA rolls without slowing down, then sure, multithread and research directional explosives.
Second scene would be Mari's investigation, I enjoy her point of view.

Unaligned Player · May 19, 2023

Black King said:
Did he? If you can find it, I'll gladly abide by his words and focus on Yuno instead.

Can't find it myself so let's try old reliable. @faflec, mind lending us assistance?

Black King · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
If those seals helped us with either of our two goals (Necromancy, Dragonwar), I would be inclined to research them. I just don't think they would. The only one I can see as immediately helping are the force wall shuriken for Kei, but if Kei is ever in RW range of the dragons, we've already lost. She doesn't have kage level RW, ergo she just dies. Sure she can use SC, but we've seen at least one of the dragons use mental attacks that will surely transfer along with the popped clone.

Well...Kei needs to make it to Dragonwar right? She's still doing missions and TN 60 Seals would help her survive greatly. Also we want to get Mari a scroll for Dragonwar and...to do that we need to go out. TN 60 Seals help greatly with that as well.

If that isn't enough to convince you then I can probably take those seals out for now, if your vote is contingent on it.

ProperAttorney said:
My ideal plan would be two scenes, one with Uplift in which we discuss possible sources of Akane's assassination and task Mari with investigating those possibilities, no matter how remote they may seem (Asuma, Shikamaru). Her second task is to acquire Shadow Clone for Yuno and Kagome. Full stop. Whatever she has to do. Hazo's task will be working on the Minato line of seals. If Resolve 60 means we can do two SSA rolls without slowing down, then sure, multithread and research directional explosives.
Second scene would be Mari's investigation, I enjoy her point of view.

I can see if I can work that into it. I'm weighing the Special Jonin/bringing our stuff to Asuma meeting against that, if only two scenes...otherwise I could try 3 with the Mari investigation being the in-between (we need her go ahead to bring up SC to Asuma afterall).

Inferno Vulpix · May 19, 2023

So I figure there are three rough classes of solution here: solutions where we abide by Pangolin law, solutions where we bend Pangolin law, and solutions where we break Pangolin law. I think this is the main factor differentiating between solutions because it decides what kind of problem we're going to have to overcome to get our desired outcome.

If we abide by Pangolin law, we need to find what our permitted actions are and how we can utilize them.
If we bend Pangolin law, we need to figure out how to pass the necessary social checks.
If we break Pangolin law, we need to figure out how to avoid reprisal. Especially timeline-breaking reprisal, because we know that Hazou ends this sequence of events schmoozing in the conclave instead of frantically fleeing Pangolin.

Now, the pros and cons of each route depend heavily on what our goal here even is. Saving the condor would be ideal, naturally, but it's very important that Hazou recapture the sense that he's an ally to the Condors. This may or may not be mutually exclusive with saving the condor in question.

For instance, if we want to abide by Pangolin law we could ask for a moment to speak with the Condor and show sympathy towards him (while carefully avoiding outright saying "because the Pangolins enslaved you and that was wrong" but still implying it). This would be a pretty safe maneuver but might not help us look better. If we want to bend Pangolin law we could perhaps claim that, as an aggrieved member of the Dog Clan, our pack has a right to something something. This would force a few social rolls to get them to bend and then once that's done we'd have to find some way to turn that into a PR win for us. I'm still not sure what the best strategy is, but the answer will in large part come down to how we expect the Pangolins to respond to our choices.

Shrooms · May 19, 2023

Black King said:
She's still doing missions and TN 60 Seals would help her survive greatly.

I otherwise agree with you but I don't think this part is true. Mari however is still doing missions, as is Yuno and the other Goketsu.

ProperAttorney · May 19, 2023

Black King said:
Well...Kei needs to make it to Dragonwar right?

Kei can not contribute in the Dragonwar with RW. The Dragons killed a Clan Boss in their territory. Kei is at least 20 to 30 skill levels from being able to even threaten them. Maybe if she did a suicide run with the Frozen Skein she could harm one.
Akane's existance is on a timer. I don't want to waste any more time on seals that won't meaningfully change our progress towards our goals. If you remove the check on the other seals so that the focus is on Minato's seals, I will vote.

acidshill · May 19, 2023

Orisha91 said:
Very tempted to accuse the Pangolins of trying to purposely sabatoge the Conclave with a purposely botched assassination attempt and intimidating the foreign representatives with a public execution. If the conclusion is a breakdown in dialouge, then Pantsa will be satisfied. If the next best thing is to control its direction, that's a good plan b.

This would be so fucking funny. I'd vote for it.

Black King · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
Akane's existance is on a timer. I don't want to waste any more time on seals that won't meaningfully change our progress towards our goals. If you remove the check on the other seals so that the focus is on Minato's seals, I will vote.

Very well then.

Black King said:
[X] Action Plan: Thrice is Nice
Word Count: <300

Mari/Kei

Talk about getting Kagome SC. Should be easy with Dragons and his sealing, right? If not, what can we offer? Maybe mandatory OPSEC classes for Kagome?

Get Yuno SC as well.

Akane's mission was leaked, we need to find out how/from who and prepare accordingly. Also look into seeing if any of the rest of us are being targeted as such. Also if there are any deniable assets she knows of who could've done this

Asking Hidan for help with tracking Akane's blood. Fine idea? He likes us, is AMITY enforcer? Ask Asuma? Ask Ami, if not?

See about getting access to spices/items from other countries to cross-reference with Canvass for Akane's attackers. If the Chunin Exam is still going on, use that. Independent of Asuma action.

Asuma

Sanity check below with Mari

Discuss getting Kagome SC for Dragonwar. More Kagome-level sealing is big help.

Promotion to Sealing Special Jonin. Orochimaru fancies us his peer, we think it's time.

See about getting access to spices/items from other countries to cross-reference with Canvass for Akane's attackers. If the Chunin Exam is still going on, use that.

If Mari clears, ask about Hidan's help

Hazou/Sealing

Test Burning Sand Macerators for effectiveness (off-screen)

Continue work on Minato's Seals with Kagome

Continue on Directional Explosives/Rocket Boots (no prep, reroll -9, -12 calligraphy)

It has been done (you were OK with Directional Explosives, correct?)

I'll try to work in the Mari investigation soon.

Shrooms · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
She doesn't have kage level RW, ergo she just dies.

How soon do you imagine we're actually launching the attack on them? I think it's decently plausible she has RW 59 and Frozen Skein 40 or something by the time we're actually fighting them (59 + 12 (PKH) + 16 (Frozen Skein) + ??? (Force Wall Shuriken attack bonus, if any) = big ol damage). She's not soloing a Dragon or anything but she could plausibly meaningfully contribute.

ProperAttorney said:
Her second task is to acquire Shadow Clone for Yuno and Kagome

Can I ask why people are so gung-ho about shadow clone for kagome? He's not going to be let in on FOOM, period, he even asked to be left out of any such conspiracies because he knows he'll leak them. He likely doesn't have the reserves to make use of it outside of sealing research (IE can't really fight with it, especially given that his style revolves around seals). Speeding up Kagome's research is useful, but marginally so imo. Asuma is massively disincentivized to share it with him because Kagome has literally 0 OPSEC ability, and Asuma knows if Kagome were ever captured he would 100% leak the technique, so we would never be allowed to take him out of Leaf to Ouzu or whatever.

It seems like burning an absurd amount of political capital for somewhat faster research from Kagome. I don't think it's worth it, and I don't think we have a strong argument to make in favor of him getting it. I'll support efforts for Yuno and Noburi to get it but I will oppose trying to get it for Kagome right now.

Inferno Vulpix said:
If we abide by Pangolin law, we need to find what our permitted actions are and how we can utilize them.

If we bend Pangolin law, we need to figure out how to pass the necessary social checks.

If we break Pangolin law, we need to figure out how to avoid reprisal. Especially timeline-breaking reprisal, because we know that Hazou ends this sequence of events schmoozing in the conclave instead of frantically fleeing Pangolin.

Not saying this needs to be your job but given that a lot of strategy suggestions are getting flung around it would be nice if someone could collate them into one place using a sorting method such as this one.

ProperAttorney · May 19, 2023

[X] Action Plan: Thrice is Nice

Shrooms said:
How soon do you imagine we're actually launching the attack on them?

If it's not any time soon, then those seals can be researched after we've done Minato's seals.

Shrooms said:
Can I ask why people are so gung-ho about shadow clone for kagome?

For me, there's three reasons.
1. Kagome doesn't have SSA, so his sealing throughput can double, triple, etc. You say it's of marginal utility, but I don't necessarily agree.
2. If Hazo dies, Kagome's ability to quickly finish the necromancy rift seal might mean he can be recovered. SC can only speed that up, and it's not something that can be acquired for Kagome after Hazo dies.
3. It would be beyond interesting if any of the constituent personalities emerge in shadow clones.

Shrooms · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
If it's not any time soon, then those seals can be researched after we've done Minato's seals.

No strong feelings from me there either way. We can do both if people really want to due to Resolve 60 giving two mild slots.

ProperAttorney said:
If Hazo dies, Kagome's ability to quickly finish the necromancy rift seal might mean he can be recovered. SC can only speed that up

This actually isn't true. You can't have clones researching the same seal to do it faster. And due to the linearity of needing prereq seals to make new seals SC doesn't really speed that up. It only lets you do other unrelated projects at the same time.

ProperAttorney said:
It would be beyond interesting if any of the constituent personalities emerge in shadow clones

While that would be cool I unfortunately don't think it convinces Asuma

ProperAttorney · May 19, 2023

Shrooms said:
This actually isn't true. You can't have clones researching the same seal to do it faster. And due to the linearity of needing prereq seals to make new seals SC doesn't really speed that up. It only lets you do other unrelated projects at the same time.

AFAIK you don't actually need to do the seals in order, they just grant veterancy. Research the current one at speed and the next much slower with full prep? Either way, Kagome can be turned to FOOM if the situation calls for it (like the death of Hazo and possible annihilation of all paths).

Shrooms said:
While that would be cool I unfortunately don't think it convinces Asuma

You asked why I wanted it, not what would convince Asuma lol.

ContextBot · May 19, 2023

acidshill said:
he's not wrong

We haven't really broken any agreement. Every person that has a Pangolin jutsu is part of our Clan and Kei ended the deal without our input, we just took the fall.

That's why Jashin loves us, he knows we are just a honest mass murderer.

But it is what it is, now we can play Oathbreaker Hazou.

Shrooms · May 19, 2023

ProperAttorney said:
AFAIK you don't actually need to do the seals in order, they just grant veterancy. Research the current one at speed and the next much slower with full prep?

Hmm honestly I don't know! Kagome made it sound like he was as far in to the chain as he needed to go though, and it was time to do original research, he's just waiting on Hazou to read the chain up to where he is. Could be wrong but that's how I recall it

ProperAttorney said:
Either way, Kagome can be turned to FOOM if the situation calls for it (like the death of Hazo and possible annihilation of all paths).

The FOOM startup is so slow to pay off that it might honestly be faster to just have Mari learn Sealing and become better than Kagome lmao

ProperAttorney said:
You asked why I wanted it, not what would convince Asuma lol

Touche. Still, I haven't seen an argument I personally think Asuma will find convincing even from Mari. The closest one is probably so that Kagome can look at the Great Seal without needing to put himself at risk but it actually doesn't help because studying it doesn't do anything unless you understand 3D sealing, which he doesn't. I feel like if we're going to put her on the case we should probably try to think of a reason he should have it that Asuma would accept

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Agony that desires to meet Extinction