Notably might also be worth learning Goo Bombs in this time so Hazou can have a ranged attack comparable to his Taijutsu (his goo bomb would be TN 70), and with little resource expenditure

Original creator bonus will apply and I think we were told Hazou could have learned it at Sealing 20, so it should be pretty straightforward to learn
 
Note that there's probably at least a month of leeway before Enma arrives back at the Conclave:
  • ??? weeks till Enma arrives in Arachnid
  • ??? weeks in Arachnid
  • ~4? weeks returning to the Conclave
As always, there are many tradeoffs to any course of action, both visible and invisible, but there's one that I'd like to point out. If you send the dog sooner (provided you can convince Cannai quickly), that gives Hazou more time to show his contrition/build relationships. If you send the dog later, you have more time to prep for the "friendly welcome" you'll no doubt receive from the Condors that blame you for their genocide and the Pangolins that blame you for defanging their military and, well, anyone else.
Ahhhh, good to know. I saw the following line:
Enma could be arriving any day now.
And figured it meant we were less than a week away from the Conclave kicking into high gear. This gives us more options, particularly with respect to Sealing. If we can think of anything doable within a week or two of research that would be particularly useful in a MARS stack for the target use case, now's the time to get started on it.

On timing, I'm torn between 'show up immediately and make the most of our time there before Enma returns' and 'show up at the same time as Enma for extra wow factor'. Will need to think more about it, but if we can't think of any way to capitalize on the sealing potential we may want to simply show up early. We'll want to meet as many representatives as we can, in one on one settings where we can exhibit our earnestness and determination without needing to play to a crowd. Deliver one Hazou Speech for each clan, after hearing their grievances and concerns, and we may just swing together enough support to make this work.
 
Notably might also be worth learning Goo Bombs in this time so Hazou can have a ranged attack comparable to his Taijutsu (his goo bomb would be TN 70), and with little resource expenditure
Are we sure that super obvious seals are the way to go given that some people don't even like the use of storage seals on the Seventh Path?

I don't think we have a lot of other options but it's worth thinking about that dimension of it.
 
Are we sure that super obvious seals are the way to go given that some people don't even like the use of storage seals on the Seventh Path?

I don't think we have a lot of other options but it's worth thinking about that dimension of it.
It's something worth talking to Cannai about. We should probably run how we're gonna approach this past him anyway.
 
some people don't even like the use of storage seals on the Seventh Path
Who? I genuinely don't recall this

Anyway, unfortunate truth of the matter is if Hazou can't use seals he's prob getting his ass blasted. Everyone knows exactly who he is and what he's done, and tbh I think an exorbitant use of seals kind of lends credence to the idea that he really is the best bet when it comes to fixing the Great Seal, which will still be damaged even if the conclave goes and beats all the Dragons' asses
 
It's very unfortunate that we haven't really had enough time to make this work but imagine how cool it would've been to show up with Dragon's Roar Seals. That mind-bending, reality-rending screech echoing around drawing all eyes to us as they grasp a brief glimpse of the true nature of what they're facing.

But there hasn't really been a long span of time where we've had the requisite sealing capability to pull it off (if we even have it now, our Calligraphy might still be too weak for it), so it must remain a figment of imagination.
 
If we got Hazou some mednin he could probably use banshees.
Not sure he'd be able to heal a Summon... different biology and all that (high TN?), but I'm not sure we have the time to earn enough CP for it, either. We can't FOOM for (at least) another 2 weeks...

Edit: although, talking with Cannai will give Hazou an excuse to spend a few hours on the 7th Path. Could FOOM for a training block, there (~3hrs, iirc).
 
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Namely, he's quite confident that the next seal (and possibly some future seals that build on it) are related to chakra-sensing. Hazō thinks he will benefit from his previous work on chakdar. Likewise, Kagome says that his own previous experiences with the chakrascope seal were helpful when he was working on this seal, and continue to be helpful even onto the fifth seal that Kagome is currently working on. Hazō thinks this seal is well within his capabilities (chūnin), but he could still improve his prospects by finishing chakdar v2 (chūnin) or working on Kagome's chakrascope seal (genin)
After researching the first three seals, does Hazou know wha they do? Do they all make varying kinds of chakra construct?
If we got Hazou some mednin he could probably use banshees
What does this mean? He can already use the banshee seal, any ninja can.
 
Enma left for Arachnid around a month ago, now. According to him, it would take him around a month to travel the route he chose, but he cautioned Hazō that it would actually take longer. Unlike Hazō, who was able to blithely travel through the territory of other clans without too much diplomacy, the clans take considerably more care when there's another clan boss around. Enma could be arriving any day now. Regardless, the Dog-Pangolin distance is much less than the Arachnid-Pangolin distance, so Hazō has plenty of time to arrange and send a representative before Enma returns to the Conclave.
Okay, so we have a little over a month to get to the Conclave. I think we should have Noburi send his envoy to Dog now, so that Hazou, Kei, and Noburi can arrive to the Conclave as a trio.
- Enma suggested leaning heavily on Jiraiya's reputation, and as his three heirs traveling as a trio of Summoners, this helps more than Hazou arriving as an individual.
- Invokes the Sannin mythos and evokes imagery of Hazou's group being potential Sannin (literally 'Three Ninja') of their own someday
- Helps prevent any of them as individuals getting their teeth kicked in by apparently hostile summons
- Is just a badass way to get the original gang together for a while

I have an additional sugggestion, one that definitely should be run by Cannai first and after getting some more lore about the process. We can bring a gthsss Archaeopteryx to the Conclave. We know that only the smallest Archaeopteryx remain:
Be thankful that only the smallest of their number survived the Dragon's hunt.
If we find one small enough (like, Panda-sized) then I think we could cage it and transport it to the Conclave for dramatic effect. This will be a pain, but I think pretty much any buff we can grant to Hazou's socials is worth the investment since he won't be cutting it in raw numbers when it comes to speechifying. Unveiling the fate that awaits the clans if they don't act is a serious wake-up call for anyone sitting around and twiddling their thumbs still, and Enma seemed to want Hazou to light a fire under their asses. I think this is a pretty good option for doing so (again, if Cannai thinks it would be effective.)

With Noburi, transporting a gthsss may be trivial, if Ma and Pa think he can safely drain it. However, I don't think there's time for Noburi to come all the way to Arachnid and meet up with us, so at minimum Hazou will need to transport it to Dog to meet up with Noburi. Some suggestions:
- Ask Kei/Panda to help test. Can Panda break out of a steel cage? If necessary, purchase a cage from the Inuzuka designed to hold chakra beasts/ask them for tips on transporting them.
- Goo bomb, then nonlethally Taijutsu attack the Archaeopteryx to knock it out and place it in the cage. From there, Hazou can use Noburi-provided drugs to sedate it. Alternatively, @RandomOTP pointed out that hawks and some other avians will cease all resistance when blindfolded, so we can try that too. If it's primarily driven by hunger, simply feeding it may be sufficient to keep it docile.
- From there, we can take the route back to Dog that Hazou took to Arachnid, and bring any interested Arachnids/Enma, who will be arriving in Arachnid soon. Traveling through Cat again isn't ideal if we're going to have to fight any hunters again, so we may want to arrange some tributes/fuckoff warnings in advance. Alternatively, we can travel the coast by boat, as the Arachnids did when they first washed up on the shores of Dog.
- After meeting up with Kei and Noburi in Dog, we can travel to Pangolin and speak at the Conclave, with our gthsss in tow and do our thing.

The primary issue with this approach is that that travel time makes it tougher to complete any last-minute Sealing projects to buff up Hazou. Chakrascope is likely doable, Goo Bombs plausibly, Chakdar 2.0 I'm not sure...
 
- Goo bomb, then nonlethally Taijutsu attack the Archaeopteryx to knock it out and place it in the cage.
This opens Hazou up to retaliation, we can just drop low powered explosives on it until it's Taken out.
With Noburi, transporting a gthsss may be trivial, if Ma and Pa think he can safely drain it. However, I don't think there's time for Noburi to come all the way to Arachnid and meet up with us, so at minimum Hazou will need to transport it to Dog to meet up with Noburi. Some suggestions:
I don't think we know if Noburi can drain a summon without turning into a statue. We might be able to get Ma and Pa to be on standby when he tries for the first time. I'd be okay with that level of safety.
The primary issue with this approach is that that travel time makes it tougher to complete any last-minute Sealing projects to buff up Hazou. Chakrascope is likely doable, Goo Bombs plausibly, Chakdar 2.0 I'm not sure...
Chakrascope is totally worthless to this endeavor and shouldn't be considered. Goo Bomb should be highest priority, followed by Chakdar 2.0. Which should just be one research cycle away with 2 invokes.

Tbh might be worth buying an FP or two.
 
Chakrascope is totally worthless to this endeavor and shouldn't be considered.
To be clear I'm only interested in it due to potentially saving time on Chakdar. It's a genin level seal, the OG creator is on hand to lower the TN, and Hazou already has a decent amount of veterancy on it, so Hazou might be able to finish it in a day without SSA. If it shaves a few days off of chakdar, it would be worth the time. (Is chakdar really only 1 research cycle away?)


Tbh might be worth buying an FP or two.
Good point.


I don't think we know if Noburi can drain a summon without turning into a statue. We might be able to get Ma and Pa to be on standby when he tries for the first time. I'd be okay with that level of safety.
Honestly I suspect he can't, yet. We should have him ask them, perhaps the update that Hazou speaks with Cannai (prob EJ's next update)


This opens Hazou up to retaliation, we can just drop low powered explosives on it until it's Taken out.
Whatever works, yeah.
 
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To be clear I'm only interested in it due to potentially saving time on Chakdar. It's a genin level seal, the OG creator is on hand to lower the TN, and Hazou already has a decent amount of veterancy on it, so Hazou might be able to finish it in a day without SSA. If it shaves a few days off of chakdar, it would be worth the time. (Is chakdar really only 2 research cycles away?)
To the best of my understanding, researching chakrascope will lower the Sealing TN of Chakdar 2.0 by 1-3 points. But the problem was the ~40 TN for Callig. We should be fine with that now. I think that with 2 FP to buy invokes and a full research cycle Chakdar 2.0 is one roll away. My memory is that we had already completed 2/3 of the seal before getting that seal failure and backing off.
Honestly I suspect he can't, yet. We should have him ask them, perhaps the update that Hazou speaks with Cannai (prob EJ's next update)
Definitely support this. It has a good chance of getting progress on Sage Mode too.

EDIT:
Hazou (Sealing): 42 + 22 (SSA) + 14 (prep days) + 7 (invoke "Promising Sealing Student) + 6 = 91
Hazou has made huge progress! He thinks he's over three-fourths of the way done!
3/4 of the way done already, we don't need a double invoke. We can probably just do a full research cycle to finish it. Or skip the research cycle and double invoke to get a +16 bonus
 
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Okay, so we have a little over a month to get to the Conclave. I think we should have Noburi send his envoy to Dog now, so that Hazou, Kei, and Noburi can arrive to the Conclave as a trio.
- Enma suggested leaning heavily on Jiraiya's reputation, and as his three heirs traveling as a trio of Summoners, this helps more than Hazou arriving as an individual.
- Invokes the Sannin mythos and evokes imagery of Hazou's group being potential Sannin (literally 'Three Ninja') of their own someday
- Helps prevent any of them as individuals getting their teeth kicked in by apparently hostile summons
- Is just a badass way to get the original gang together for a while

I have an additional sugggestion, one that definitely should be run by Cannai first and after getting some more lore about the process. We can bring a gthsss Archaeopteryx to the Conclave. We know that only the smallest Archaeopteryx remain:

If we find one small enough (like, Panda-sized) then I think we could cage it and transport it to the Conclave for dramatic effect. This will be a pain, but I think pretty much any buff we can grant to Hazou's socials is worth the investment since he won't be cutting it in raw numbers when it comes to speechifying. Unveiling the fate that awaits the clans if they don't act is a serious wake-up call for anyone sitting around and twiddling their thumbs still, and Enma seemed to want Hazou to light a fire under their asses. I think this is a pretty good option for doing so (again, if Cannai thinks it would be effective.)

With Noburi, transporting a gthsss may be trivial, if Ma and Pa think he can safely drain it. However, I don't think there's time for Noburi to come all the way to Arachnid and meet up with us, so at minimum Hazou will need to transport it to Dog to meet up with Noburi. Some suggestions:
- Ask Kei/Panda to help test. Can Panda break out of a steel cage? If necessary, purchase a cage from the Inuzuka designed to hold chakra beasts/ask them for tips on transporting them.
- Goo bomb, then nonlethally Taijutsu attack the Archaeopteryx to knock it out and place it in the cage. From there, Hazou can use Noburi-provided drugs to sedate it. Alternatively, @RandomOTP pointed out that hawks and some other avians will cease all resistance when blindfolded, so we can try that too. If it's primarily driven by hunger, simply feeding it may be sufficient to keep it docile.
- From there, we can take the route back to Dog that Hazou took to Arachnid, and bring any interested Arachnids/Enma, who will be arriving in Arachnid soon. Traveling through Cat again isn't ideal if we're going to have to fight any hunters again, so we may want to arrange some tributes/fuckoff warnings in advance. Alternatively, we can travel the coast by boat, as the Arachnids did when they first washed up on the shores of Dog.
- After meeting up with Kei and Noburi in Dog, we can travel to Pangolin and speak at the Conclave, with our gthsss in tow and do our thing.

The primary issue with this approach is that that travel time makes it tougher to complete any last-minute Sealing projects to buff up Hazou. Chakrascope is likely doable, Goo Bombs plausibly, Chakdar 2.0 I'm not sure...
We might get more sage mode lore by asking about draining things on the seventh path too fwiw
 
Nah, we were explicitly not invited last we checked. Enma's full of shit. :p
Oh yeah, Hazou should have just busted down the door of half a dozen essies with a grudge against him. Lol

Enma, it's not Hazou's fault that you (and everyone else) assumed he was lying. Love how it's Hazou's fault if he does what they want and if he doesn't do what they want.

I kind of want to give the whole collection a "reasons you suck" speech.
 
It costs less than Noburi's total reserves. Noburi did the Summoning, so he should know the cost. I don't think we've asked since the update became canon.
It was a one-time contract and there are lots of confounding factors. For example:
  • Without passive regen, Noburi is rarely at "full".
  • The koi pond was partially tapped thanks to SC training earlier that day.
  • Yuno was not at max capacity since she was training.
Etc. Noburi would need to get a long-term contract with them before we revealed their costs.

Is this taking into account our willingness to pay the various levels of workers and artisans for the equivalent of what earthshaping it would cost?

Is the lack of response here due to forgetfulness or internal QM discussion (or some other thing I'm not privy to)?
I think we missed it. If you would like to try this, you may do so in character. It hasn't happened in the background.

(Note: When you say "what earthshaping it would cost", do you mean "what it would cost to build things *without* using Earthshaping"?)

Also @eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped are Aburame lenscrafters all civilians and/or is it immediately obvious to Hazo that his creating lenses with ninja techniques is going to be a Merchant Council issue?
Given that there is no civilian lenscrafting industry, there is no one harmed by the Aburame making telescopes, so the Merchant Council has no objections. The Aburame have kept their method of lenscrafting a clan secret, so you don't know if they are exclusively civilian.

Relatedly...

Don't tell them how you copied the lenses; claim clan secrets (and imply it's related to your bloodline).
This is not an objection to you caiming it, but be aware that it's a lie. With Earthshaping in the Leaf Private Library, Hazou is well aware that it is not a clan secret.
 
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Just for consideration, I don't think we should plan to use pangolin peppers in any altercation at the conclave. Two main reasons for this.

1) we don't want to highlight our past with the Pangolins more than necessary. They already know who we are, and actively still using stuff we got from the Pangolins has all sorts of messaging. Especially if we're not using any dog techniques. The logistics of our ability to use dog techniques unfortunately doesn't matter for optics on this.

2) We want to put on a show, but have everyone think well of us after subduing. Anything particularly unpleasant or permanent will get in the way of that. Let me posit two scenarios

A) An interesting dude with a questionable past comes to town. A couple teens pick a fight with him. He casually dodges one, knocking one down. He ties up another. He defeated them, but didn't hurt them. That makes him more dangerous, but also more interesting.

B) An interesting dude with a questionable past comes to town. A couple teens pick a fight with him. He casually dodges one, knocking them down. He then maces a second one in their face, and then hits them in the ears enough they bleed. He's dangerous, but also violent, prone to escalation. We need to be wary of him.


I'm not suggesting not to use sealing at all, I think winning is more important than fighting sealless. But I do think how we fight and how we win will really set that initial tone.
 
@Velorien @Paperclipped @eaglejarl, would you be open to including something like the following in the rules doc? These topics come up periodically and generally cause headaches. I think that unwritten understandings are bad as well as being a barrier to quest participation.

I'd be happy to write a few example plans that illustrate what I've laid out below - I didn't include them right now because I'm too lazy to replace X with chi.

(Also apparently you can schedule automatic close of voting according to the link in the 'how to voting' post? That's neat.)
Good idea. We've taken your suggestions as the skeleton and are adding / modifying a few things and will post it later. Thank you for putting this together, it saved us a bunch of effort. +1 XP to all!
 
Adhoc vote count started by Velorien on Jan 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM, finished with 174 posts and 15 votes.


Voting is closed.

 
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