Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
Kage bunshin is a shatter point for Ami. She is one with her bloodline. Deeply tied to overcoming it, she has claimed her personhood from it. There is no such thing as an Ami without the Mori Voice. Contrasted with Keiko who sees herself as her own person, afflicted with a malady.

If Ami clones are anything except unrecognisable as Ami, it is an admission of delusion. Does Ami avoid Kage Bunshin to protect her conception of her identity? Or dive head first to display certainty or a lack of apprehension that her clones will fracture her world view? Correct framing can prevent this from coming to a head before critical problems are resolved. Switch her from one track to the other, ready for fallout. Waiting until the new exams work out before asking for benefits averts the appearance of an opportunistic foreigner, pragmatically.
 
coldcutconvict said:
Kage bunshin is a shatter point for Ami. She is one with her bloodline. Deeply tied to overcoming it, she has claimed her personhood from it. There is no such thing as an Ami without the Mori Voice. Contrasted with Keiko who sees herself as her own person, afflicted with a malady.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
AMI: "Shadow Clone Jutsu!"

Ami-Test-Clone: "...yeah, no."

Ami-Test-Clone: [dispels]

AMI: "What? Shadow Clone Jutsu!"

Ami-Test-Clone: "...nope, not doing this."

Ami-Test-Clone: [dispels]

AMI: "Stop that! Shadow Clone Jutsu!"

Ami-Test-Clone: "...You can refuse the Mori Voice, I can refuse you."

Ami-Test-Clone: [dispels]

AMI: "...Well that was a waste of xp."
 
How did so many shinobi die? Is Konoha that much worse than its enemies? Did a third party kill a comparable amount of enemy shinobi but it is hidden by fog of war? We should expect fewer casualties than would otherwise be expected in absence of zoo rush tactics. It is important to identify if there are unexplained variables here.

Statistically, how many would have been captured without dying? How many went nukenin? How many more are expected to defect in the next months? Nonclan, nonKEI ninja have fewer bonds cementing loyalty. Do we get ahead of the issue by working with Yakuza to steer mercenary deserters to proKonoha work?
 
Shrooms said:
[X] Action Plan: We Need to Talk About Ami
Word Count: 299
  • Ask Mari to help Hazou pick an AMITY outfit. (Subtext: OPSEC discussion)
    • Somehow, Ami repatriated herself.
    • (Joking) There's finally a Leaf ninja whose social skills can potentially contend with Mari.
    • Hazou wants to like Ami, but hasn't forgotten she threatened Mari recently.
      • Clearly he's not Hazo isn't immune to Ami's charms. He wants to be a genuine friend, but feigning loneliness is also a common S&I trick.
      • Even knowing that Still, Hazou wants to continue trying to be a real friend.
        • He's depending on Mari What does Mari need to catch any plots against them? since Ami's social skills far outclass his for now.
        • If Asuma allows Ami to learn Shadow Clone, maybe they always will, since she's somewhat aware of FOOM. For now, she thinks the secret is a legacy technique of Jiraiya's. (Hold her hand or something if mentioning Jiraiya makes Mari sad.)
          • Does she think Ami will get SC? Can it be prevented?
          • Regardless, even if she did she'd never catch up to Mari. Mari's always been Goketsu's ace, and not just for her jounin skills.
        • Mari is a huge part of Goketsu - not just because she's a jounin. Can Hazo help her with anything? She does a lot.
    • Try to get genuine fashion advice in the meantime!
  • Arrange dinner with Ami, Kei, and people Ami likes
    • Celebrate her repatriation and successes with AMITY. How can Hazou help it succeed?
    • Should he attend? It's an opportunity to spread word about the DRAGONWAR, but he's no Diplomat.
      • Some of the Akatsuki hate him, but Sasori's help with the Great Seal would be huge.
      • Also, some of Akatsuki love him, some hate him. Might sow unnecessary discord by being there.
        • Still, Sasori's help with the Great Seal could be crucial
      • For that matter, has Ami heard anything about Hidan recently?
      • What's the current status of the Akatsuki? Who's a member?
    • Hazou wants to retry recruiting the Kurosawa for the Great Seal, maybe open relations with trade. Any advice?
  • Misc
    • Make arrangements to adopt the 4 new estate chuunin and celebrate as was done for Atomu and co.
    • Have Mari use silk wealth to barter for more slots to adopt the others soon, too.
    • Pay wergild and apologize to Hagomoro. Follow all protocols. Do not take shots at him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I would be reasonably happy to vote for this plan with these changes. However, some of them are substantial-ish; the tone of the Mari section changes, so I don't expect their wholesale adoption.

I do think it's important to make it explicit, in the plan, that we're trying to get Mari to stop Ami from getting SC if at all possible, or to provide a risk assessment that it will happen. It might be something we just need to get out in front of.

Pruning some of the plan down to include a sanity-check with Mari would probably be smart, too. Given that the adoption ceremony would be onscreen (?) that line might be something which could be cut.

...what do you think the odds are that Hazo qualifies Mari as 'someone Ami likes'? That would be pretty special. Kei has declared ambivalence, so doing so would even meet the bar of respecting her agency.
 
coldcutconvict said:
We should expect fewer casualties than would otherwise be expected in absence of zoo rush tactics. It is important to identify if there are unexplained variables here.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think that we've sustained realistic losses given that we're operating against a numerically superior force. There might be some unexplained variables, but Zoo Rush brings us up to par with Rock (given that our S-rankers can't be everywhere) - it isn't a war-winning strategy on its own. Same with things like getting Orochimaru to go to Isan. We're keeping our head above water for now, but if this continues, we drown.
coldcutconvict said:
Statistically, how many would have been captured without dying?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Gut feel, very few, and mostly chuunin/genin.
coldcutconvict said:
How many went nukenin?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Everyone who could, probably, but that sort of thing is restricted to folks powerful enough to pull it off. I don't imagine the average genin can meaningfully self-destruct, and it appears that there are good methods to prevent suicide techniques. much less suicide techniques that take out your assailant, too.
coldcutconvict said:
How many more are expected to defect in the next months?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Back up there: defect from Leaf? Did I miss a statement that's been happening? I'd be pretty shocked to find out that anyone is cutting and running. This is a popular war even if we're losing, and ninja are indoctrinated in the Will of Fire to a fanatical extent from a young age.

I'd expect the same to be true of Rock. This is probably a very popular conflict, and if there is significant unrest, it'll be accompanied by regime change headed by someone powerful who saw an opportunity to take the hat and save their village, not appreciable desertion.
coldcutconvict said:
Do we get ahead of the issue by working with Yakuza to steer mercenary deserters to proKonoha work?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If we don't already have a good strategy to handle third-party shinobi I'll eat a hat.
 
A lot of the saved word count in this will likely get implemented, thanks
FaintlySorcerous said:
I do think it's important to make it explicit, in the plan, that we're trying to get Mari to stop Ami from getting SC if at all possible, or to provide a risk assessment that it will happen. It might be something we just need to get out in front of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think this opposes the general premise of the plan, although there is probably a better way to word what I'm trying to go for. Basically, I want it to be so that if Ami asks if Hazou is blocking her from getting Shadow Clone or working against her goals or something he can genuinely say, "What?" since she would see through it if he were lying. So we need Mari to act but for Hazou to remain ignorant (and TLitF would not work because she would need to have activated it before he had the idea).

So any wording suggestions that are in line with that premise need to allow us to steer Mari through Hazou with Hazou being none the wiser....

This is meta

AND THIS

IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!
 
[X] Action Plan: We Need to Talk About Ami

I approve of the approach of trying to keep it away from Hazou. If this doesn't work out, we can try more explicit measures. Always best to have multiple layers of defense.

It is not an immediate concern, but delaying Ami's SC is extremely important imo, if we don't want her to end up as the EN-winning-singularity (which she kinda is already shaping up to be without SC). This would be bad because a few short weeks ago, she threatened Mari's life. She's not our friend, friends don't try to kill your family. She's fun, and she's friendly, and she's made it clear that when push comes to shove, she will kill people that we like.

Maybe it's possible to make her a friend in the future, though it would be really hard to get her onto the level of trust that Team Uplift shares with each other...
 
Shrooms said:
Basically, I want it to be so that if Ami asks if Hazou is blocking her from getting Shadow Clone or working against her goals or something he can genuinely say, "What?" since she would see through it if he were lying.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I want to make sure that I'm understanding you.

What you want is for Hazo to deniably plant the idea in Mari's mind that Ami should not have SC, therefore allowing Hazo to plausibly lie to Ami if she asks him about it.

I don't think that Hazo can deceive one A-rank social spec, much less two, which is what would need to happen for this plan to work. I think that we should be upfront with Mari: we don't want Ami to get SC, and we don't want her to hate us for it. She's a specialist, and she's either going to tell us that those constraints make the problem impossible or that she can solve the problem.

At the very least, I think that intention needs to be spelled out in the plan even if Hazo never speaks it aloud, because a reading of the plan does not make that clear. If I were Vel and writing an update based on your plan, I would not go in that direction. (I would probably be very confused about that section and not really know what you wanted to accomplish with it.)

If you want Hazo to manipulate Mari without realizing he's doing it, then...I don't think that's gonna happen. Maybe we can include an OOC note in the plan? But each layer of obfuscation impacts plan readability and leaves room for intentions to be misinterpreted.
 
FaintlySorcerous said:
If you want Hazo to manipulate Mari without realizing he's doing it, then...I don't think that's gonna happen. Maybe we can include an OOC note in the plan? But each layer of obfuscation impacts plan readability and leaves room for intentions to be misinterpreted.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This one (sort of). I just want Hazou to bring Ami knowing about FOOM to Mari's awareness, and the fact that Ami being repatriated means she could learn Shadow Clone now, and hope that Mari takes initiative herself. I am 85% confident that any initiative Hazou takes himself, even if it's just asking someone else to do something to intervene, will eventually be discovered by Ami. Plus, like Paper said if it did become necessary we can order Mari to do it later, but I really hope it doesn't come to that since I do like Ami as a character and don't want to burn bridges. I just don't want more insane people to become essies (before us, at least) and she did kinda threaten our entire family like a month ago...

(And for the record I wouldn't be upset with Vel or EJ if this doesn't pan out, this is a pretty meta approach, but when dealing with Ami you can't settle for less than meta)
 
Last edited:
FaintlySorcerous said:
What you want is for Hazo to deniably plant the idea in Mari's mind that Ami should not have SC, therefore allowing Hazo to plausibly lie to Ami if she asks him about it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We're not going to have to push Mari into having an anti-Ami stance because as paper says
Paperclipped said:
This would be bad because a few short weeks ago, she threatened Mari's life. She's not our friend, friends don't try to kill your family.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Mari isn't an idiot (which she's not) she's going to do everything to keep Ami from getting access to SC. By portraying Hazou as an idiot she will just not clue us in to the plan. Either because she thinks we are compromised in regard to Ami or want a cutout to make sure we can't be implicated
 
Shrooms said:
2 scenes. hopefully this is sufficient to encourage Mari to prevent Ami from learning Shadow Clone, by persuading Asuma or whatever. suggestions welcome.

EDIT: to further clarify let me repost what I said to FS:

"I don't want Ami to get shadow clone for as long as possible. But if Hazou actively plots against Ami himself she will figure it out immediately. Thus we need to plant the idea in Mari's head without Hazou's direct instruction to maintain innocence and not tip Ami off, since ideally Hazou wouldn't know either. I'm hoping the plan indicates to Mari that he is a risk vector for plots, though she already knows that probably, and that she will realize Ami FOOMing is not good."

can also be word count optimized

[X] Action Plan: We Need to Talk About Ami
Word Count: 281
  • Ask Mari to help Hazou pick an AMITY outfit. (Subtext: OPSEC discussion)
    • Somehow, Ami repatriated herself.
    • (Joking) There's finally a Leaf ninja whose social skills can potentially contend with Mari.
    • Hazou wants to like Ami, but she threatened Mari recently.
      • Hazou's not immune to Ami's charms. He wants to be a genuine friend, but feigning loneliness is a common S&I trick. Even knowing that, Hazou wants to try.
        • What does Mari need to catch any plots against them? Ami's social skills far outclass Hazou's for now.
        • If Asuma allows Ami to learn Shadow Clone, maybe her skills will always outclass Hazou's, since Ami's somewhat aware of FOOM. For now, she thinks the secret is a legacy technique of Jiraiya's. (Hold her hand or something if mentioning Jiraiya makes Mari sad.)
          • Regardless, even if she figured it out she'd never catch up to Mari. Mari's always been Goketsu's ace, and not just for her jounin skills.
    • Try to get genuine fashion advice in the meantime!
  • Arrange dinner with Ami, Kei, and people Ami likes
    • Celebrate her repatriation and successes with AMITY. How can Hazou help?
    • Should he attend? It's an opportunity to spread word about the DRAGONWAR.
      • Some of Akatsuki hate him, but Sasori's help with the Great Seal could be crucial.
      • Does Ami know the status/location of the other members?
    • Hazou wants to retry recruiting the Kurosawa for the Great Seal, maybe open relations with trade. Any advice?
  • Misc
    • Make arrangements to adopt the 4 new estate chuunin and celebrate as was done for Atomu and co.
    • Have Mari use silk wealth to barter for more slots.
    • Pay wergild and apologize to Hagoromo. Follow all protocol in good faith.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
updated and implemented ~most of FS's suggestions
 
Velorien said:
This, this was how life was meant to be lived. It was yet another thing Akatsuki and Hidden Rock had to pay for. In cutting down so many of Leaf's finest, they'd left the Maris looking for worthy challengers among the likes of Lady Inuzuka (who simply didn't have the skill to compete) and Yūhi (who wasn't interested in playing the game for its own sake). The Maris weren't born to sit at home reading all day (with the possible exception of Scholarly Mari). They were born to fence with fellow masters using words sharper than blades, dancing on battlefields far more subtle and no less deadly than any blood-drenched warzone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Mari:

 
FaintlySorcerous said:
I think that we've sustained realistic losses given that we're operating against a numerically superior force. There might be some unexplained variables, but Zoo Rush brings us up to par with Rock (given that our S-rankers can't be everywhere) - it isn't a war-winning strategy on its own. Same with things like getting Orochimaru to go to Isan. We're keeping our head above water for now, but if this continues, we drown.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Didn't know this. Would still prefer in chapter confirmation of investigations and facts.
FaintlySorcerous said:
Everyone who could, probably, but that sort of thing is restricted to folks powerful enough to pull it off. I don't imagine the average genin can meaningfully self-destruct, and it appears that there are good methods to prevent suicide techniques. much less suicide techniques that take out your assailant, too.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nukenin doesn't refer to suicide. It is a synonym for abandoning your country.
 
Semi important question, Since we are basically on the cusp of getting Noburi to start FOOMing (if everything works out) how are we going to handle the huge increase in chakra that we need to get him going. Do we want to cut back on anyone or just do an even split of chakra? Slow down Kei and Akane to let the boys catch up?
 
Last edited:
Oneiros said:
Semi important question, Since we are basically on the cusp of getting Noburi to start FOOMing (if everything works out) how are we going to handle the huge increase in chakra that we need to get him going. Do we want to cut back on anyone or just do an even split of chakra? Slow down Kei and Akane to let the boys catch up?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Could just divert to investing heavily in CR with everyone. Not very efficient but it would give us more chakra to work with and at least it's still a very useful stat, especially for summoners
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top