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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Wait can academy students accidentally cause sealing failure even without the sealmaster stunt? If so I wonder if could teach genin it as a weapon of last resort
 
As a general principle, do not teach people with the objec that they be able to do severe damage to the fabric of reality.
Distributing weapons of mass destruction to the populace at large seems very inadvisable for rather simple reasons.
 
roobee said:
Wait can academy students accidentally cause sealing failure even without the sealmaster stunt? If so I wonder if could teach genin it as a weapon of last resort
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Probably not, but she could mess with something in a way that could make Kagome's next seal fail. Like, say she mishandles a piece of seal paper and it's got a crease in it. If Kagome doesn't notice the crease and draws a seal on it, it might fail and kill him.
 
Infusing an improperly drawn seal causes failure.

If, after infusing, an extra line is drawn on the infused seal with chakra ink, will that also cause failure?
 
OliWhail said:
I believe this has an established answer of "yes", for the same reason that getting a seal wet will do so.
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I would think there would be a lot more seal failures then. Anytime a squad is hit by rain all their seals would have to be check for failures. Sure, seals are expensive enough that an ordinary genin would not have them, but clanborns and chuunin and higher should have at least a few on hand for emergencies.

Keeping them in airtight containers would prevent failures, but it would also prevent fast usage, ultimately making them useless in emergency cases.

Again, if seal failures are as easy to cause, the Watchers would make their visits to every second ninja in times of war, not only to Jiraiya.

I'm just digging a hole at the bottom of which the grue eats sealing altogether, ain't I? I will shut up now.
 
TarzanNn said:
Again, if seal failures are as easy to cause, the Watchers would make their visits to every second ninja in times of war, not only to Jiraiya.
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Bear in mind that there is no guarantee whatsoever that a sealing failure will hurt the enemy more than yourself. It could power up your enemies with a helpful mutation. Or it could give the Dragons a shortcut to the Human Path, including however many are still trapped by the Great Seal--whereupon they would decide that, as their inadvertent summoner, you must have enough power to be a devouring priority.
 
I also am not sure getting a seal wet=instant seal failure, it may just make them more prone to sealing failure, and given the severity of such a thing you would always treat the risk as a certainty. Perhaps adding random lines is something similar. Maybe it would be harmless but why would you ever chance that?
 
Shrooms said:
I also am not sure getting a seal wet=instant seal failure, it may just make them more prone to sealing failure, and given the severity of such a thing you would always treat the risk as a certainty. Perhaps adding random lines is something similar. Maybe it would be harmless but why would you ever chance that?
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Noburi once disarmed an exploding tag by ramming it into a water clone, if that helps.
 
Velorien said:
Bear in mind that there is no guarantee whatsoever that a sealing failure will hurt the enemy more than yourself. It could power up your enemies with a helpful mutation. Or it could give the Dragons a shortcut to the Human Path, including however many are still trapped by the Great Seal--whereupon they would decide that, as their inadvertent summoner, you must have enough power to be a devouring priority.
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I am not saying that we should experiment with getting seals wet, I'm not Radvic enough for that.

I am saying that given how fragile seals seems to be almost every ninja cornered by the enemy with seals on hand would choose to tear them apart. They would have nothing to lose: it's either death or - which is probably worse - interrogation.

On the other hand, they could go with a bang and take some enemies with them to face the kami. Not to mention that they could have a direct order to do just this. Someone like Yagura may have thought that sealing failures are pretty good for his liking.

It's like nuclear weapons in WWII - scientist (sealmasters) know that it's the thing one shouldn't mess with, but leaders of warring nations think that end justifies the means, and Hiroshima gets reduced to rubble. So, this but ten times worse since magic medieval death world.

To be clear, this is not an attack on QMs. I am grateful for all the hard work you put in the quest and in patching the illogical atrocity of Kishimoto. I certainly would have enough patience and imagination to deal with it.
 
TarzanNn said:
I am not saying that we should experiment with getting seals wet, I'm not Radvic enough for that.

I am saying that given how fragile seals seems to be almost every ninja cornered by the enemy with seals on hand would choose to tear them apart. They would have nothing to lose: it's either death or - which is probably worse - interrogation.

On the other hand, they could go with a bang and take some enemies with them to face the kami. Not to mention that they could have a direct order to do just this. Someone like Yagura may have thought that sealing failures are pretty good for his liking.

It's like nuclear weapons in WWII - scientist (sealmasters) know that it's the thing one shouldn't mess with, but leaders of warring nations think that end justifies the means, and Hiroshima gets reduced to rubble. So, this but ten times worse since magic medieval death world.

To be clear, this is not an attack on QMs. I am grateful for all the hard work you put in the quest and in patching the illogical atrocity of Kishimoto. I certainly would have enough patience and imagination to deal with it.
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As Keiko explains in a very early chapter, the most reliable way to avoid interrogation using a seal (specifically, an exploding tag) is to set it off in close proximity to one or more of your vital organs. Ripping a seal doesn't kill you as reliably.
 
OliWhail said:
As Keiko explains in a very early chapter, the most reliable way to avoid interrogation using a seal (specifically, an exploding tag) is to set it off in close proximity to one or more of your vital organs. Ripping a seal doesn't kill you as reliably.
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Velorien said:
"The most effective means is an exploding tag placed here," she indicated a spot near her solar plexus. "There is little time for pain, and the damage prevents the enemy from dissecting your remains for village secrets. But exploding tags have a time delay, and require activation, so the enemy can stop you. Therefore the most reliable means is to sever the carotid artery with a kunai. If you make a movement like this, you will bypass the thick neck muscles and inflict a deep, broad cut. In the final moments, try to fall so that your body cannot be retrieved before you bleed out.
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faflec.pedantry
 
TarzanNn said:
I am not saying that we should experiment with getting seals wet, I'm not Radvic enough for that.

I am saying that given how fragile seals seems to be almost every ninja cornered by the enemy with seals on hand would choose to tear them apart. They would have nothing to lose: it's either death or - which is probably worse - interrogation.

On the other hand, they could go with a bang and take some enemies with them to face the kami. Not to mention that they could have a direct order to do just this. Someone like Yagura may have thought that sealing failures are pretty good for his liking.

It's like nuclear weapons in WWII - scientist (sealmasters) know that it's the thing one shouldn't mess with, but leaders of warring nations think that end justifies the means, and Hiroshima gets reduced to rubble. So, this but ten times worse since magic medieval death world.

To be clear, this is not an attack on QMs. I am grateful for all the hard work you put in the quest and in patching the illogical atrocity of Kishimoto. I certainly would have enough patience and imagination to deal with it.
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Ryugamine and the 5 clans may be dissuading people from doing it. After all, someone had to start those rumors about the Watchers.

Edit:
It may also be like chemical warfare in WW2. Germany could have used them, but then the allies would have too, so it would have both been net neutral and actively made things worse for everyone.
 
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Sentient Tree said:
Ryugamine and the 5 clans may be dissuading people from doing it. After all, someone had to start those rumors about the Watchers.

Edit:
It may also be like chemical warfare in WW2. Germany could have used them, but then the allies would have too, so it would have both been net neutral and actively made things worse for everyone.
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Actually Germany probably would have used chemical weapons if they had been effective. Chemical weapons are not more effective to WWII era militaries than an equal tonnage of high explosives. Further reading here if you're interested.
 
TarzanNn said:
It's like nuclear weapons in WWII - scientist (sealmasters) know that it's the thing one shouldn't mess with, but leaders of warring nations think that end justifies the means, and Hiroshima gets reduced to rubble. So, this but ten times worse since magic medieval death world.
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I'm not an expert or anything, but I don't think most physicists objected to nuclear weapons before they were built and the destructive capabilities became obvious. I think there were a couple of early objectors, but nothing like a consensus.
 
OliWhail said:
As Keiko explains in a very early chapter, the most reliable way to avoid interrogation using a seal (specifically, an exploding tag) is to set it off in close proximity to one or more of your vital organs. Ripping a seal doesn't kill you as reliably.
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Yes, it doesn't. I am not sure whether this notion would stop a nin that has low self-preservation (frankly, a lot of them), downright mentally unstable (most of the jōnins), or just anyone believing (rightfully or not) it will bring more good to their side than not.

Sir Stompy said:
I'm not an expert or anything, but I don't think most physicists objected to nuclear weapons before they were built and the destructive capabilities became obvious. I think there were a couple of early objectors, but nothing like a consensus.
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Yeah, there was no consensus before the Japan bombings. There was afterwards, but it didn't stop nation leaders to coming this close to blowing the world into Fallout-verse. Several times.

And those leaders were not the dumbest people around. They did manage to get on top of everyone else in their countries, so they had to have at least some competency, even if their morals mostly we're garbage. Now imagine every second soldier on any battlefield since 1945 carrying a portable nuke in their pockets.
 
I think the point is that "Complete seals are extremely prone to sealing failures" and "Everyone has a bunch of seals" end in "Sealing Failures everywhere, everytime", every time something happens to a seal(Water,water jutsu, physical damage, idiot ninja killing himself with style, ect...)....boom!Sealing Failure. Thankfully, we already know it doesn't work like this: it depends both on the type of seal, the type of damage and the sealmaster skill.
Storage and explosive seals are among the most stable seals that exist, in fact, storage seals are so stable you can rip them in half and the majority of times nothing bad happens(To the point that Mari thought breaking storage seals had 0% chance of a sealing failure).

EDIT: at the moment the only reliable way to create a sealing failure 100% is failing an infusion roll, iirc. So if you want to die with a sealing failure, you need to be a sealmaster or have break an unstable seal(That only sealmasters have) and pray Eaglejarl Jashin will give you a Sealing Failure
 
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Lord Marshal said:
I think the point is that "Complete seals are extremely prone to sealing failures" and "Everyone has a bunch of seals" end in "Sealing Failures everywhere, everytime", every time something happens to a seal(Water,water jutsu, physical damage, idiot ninja killing himself with style, ect...)....boom!Sealing Failure. Thankfully, we already know it doesn't work like this: it depends both on the type of seal, the type of damage and the sealmaster skill.
Storage and explosive seals are among the most stable seals that exist, in fact, storage seals are so stable you can rip them in half and the majority of times nothing bad happens(To the point that Mari thought breaking storage seals had 0% chance of a sealing failure).

EDIT: at the moment the only reliable way to create a sealing failure 100% is failing an infusion roll, iirc. So if you want to die with a sealing failure, you need to be a sealmaster or have break an unstable seal(That only sealmasters have) and pray Eaglejarl Jashin will give you a Sealing Failure
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Fair point. The number of other types of seals would be significantly lower, hence drastically reduced number of failures in the field (intended or otherwise).
 
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