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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Velorien said:
The silence was deafening. Regent Kyōsuke's face was thoroughly schooled, much like the man himself had just been. He showed no hint of anger at being told that the Hyūga ancestors were inferior to the past Hokage and that his reverence for them was a failure of character, all in a way that contained no direct insult. Lady Kei looked like her birthday had come early, while Keiko's lips moved in the world's smallest "thank you". The others variously looked amused, appalled, deliberately neutral, and obliviously pleased at the display of patriotism from the immigrant.
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Okay, I thought it would be okay to ignore the Hyuga since they didn't have a reason to be against us anymore, but now we just insulted them. I think we should really start trying to get closer to Hinata so that we don't end up with another enemy who would like for Gōketsu to be wiped out.

If it will eventually mean one less enemy, or even a less vitriolic enemy, I think a few meetings with Hinata is a worthwhile investment.

Velorien said:
"So now, I'm going to read through the whole thing a second time, and at the end I'm going to ask myself: 'Is this worth the risk of destabilising Leaf as it already reels from the consequences of the KEI's first victory?' But I suspect I already know the answer."

Asuma walked away, package in hand. Keiko looked at Hazō, gaze pleading, but the Hokage was gone by the time he turned around.
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Okay, on second thought there's a LOT of clans that we should start trying to make friends with. Less because of it being actively dangerous to us, and more because being divided along party lines is something that Leaf really doesn't need right now.


Ways we can get on better terms with traditionalist clans:
  • More meetings with them.
    • The way we're romancing Ino? Do that with Hinata too. Have meetings with the traditionalist clan heads and just get to know them better.
    • Try to find common ground and emphasize that we both want what is best for Leaf
  • Economic ties.
    • Get some financial partnerships going with different clans.
    • The Hyuga have a ton of businesses, right? Find out what they are, and see if we can think up a way to expand their businesses with Gōketsu help.
    • Grape lands for the Amori.
    • Land clearing stuff in general, partered with whichever conservative clan we think best.
  • More game nights.
    • This is our main form of diplomacy, after all.
 
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Sentient Tree said:
Okay, I thought it would be okay to ignore the Hyuga since they didn't have a reason to be against us anymore, but now we just insulted them. I think we should really start trying to get closer to Hinata so that we don't end up with another enemy who would like for Gōketsu to be wiped out.

If it will eventually mean one less enemy, or even a less vitriolic enemy, I think a few meetings with Hinata is a worthwhile investment.


Okay, on second thought there's a LOT of clans that we should start trying to make friends with. Less because of it being actively dangerous to us, and more because being divided along party lines is something that Leaf really doesn't need right now.


Ways we can get on better terms with traditionalist clans:
  • More meetings with them.
    • The way we're romancing Ino? Do that with Hinata too. Have meetings with the traditionalist clan heads and just get to know them better.
    • Try to find common ground and emphasize that we both want what is best for Leaf
  • Economic ties.
    • Get some financial partnerships going with different clans.
    • The Hyuga have a ton of businesses, right? Find out what they are, and see if we can think up a way to expand their businesses with Gōketsu help.
  • More game nights.
    • This is our main form of diplomacy, after all.
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I agree, I don't think we can pass diplomacy onto Mari anymore. At least, not as much as we have been. I'll go ahead and tentatively precommit votes that do this. It's more social-fu, but we can always incorporate an element of training/sparring into the bonding, like we did with Haru.

Sasuke says that he was conflicted about game nights, right? Liked and loathed that he wasn't invited to them, yeah? And, imo, Sasuke actually seems more reasonable towards Hazou than Naruto (though that's largely our own fault, there). So let's invite Sasuke over to our (Weekly? Monthly) game nights and then try and set up regular sparring sessions with him. We can bond over fists, shonin-style, and just, in general, get Sasuke more involved in the quest.

I'll add it to my LTG once the internet gets set up (last guy misread the address and went to the wrong floor. Not a big deal, just some minor delays).

I know that I was initially hesitant to involve Sasuke's character in MfD, but his iteration within this quest is amazingly detailed and nuanced, even from just what we've been shown. I think that Hazou and Sasuke could become good friends, and we might even be able to sway Sasuke onto some version of Uplift.
 
[X] Action plan: A gossamer web with sunlight illuminating it

Looking back, I do think we're reforming/changing Leaf a little too fast and if the village wasn't so deep in shit after the recent events we'd be facing a lot of backlash. Consider that accepting missing-nin was revolutionary and now a few months later, the same missing-nin effectively control a third of the council's votes. I think a large reason for that is the pace/format though. Basically let's keep it simple when it comes to politics, our aims have mostly been achieved anyhow.

Instead we can focus on becoming living gods of plumbing or something.
 
[X] Action plan: A gossamer web with sunlight

Has both economic diplomacy with traditionalist clans and trying to get telescopes. I'm sold!

RandomOTP said:
So let's invite Sasuke over to our (Weekly? Monthly) game nights and then try and set up regular sparring sessions with him. We can bond over fists, shonin-style, and just, in general, get Sasuke more involved in the quest.
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Sparring with Sasuke is an excellent idea for getting closer to him. If he's retained even the slightest trace of his canon personality he'll probably prefer training to talking anyway.
 
...You know, if we really want to be ninja stinkers about things, we did technically choose to NOT talk to Sasuke or any of our other "allies" about the true goal of the concubine bill, save for Ino who we were 100% honest with. We could, if we wanted to, claim that while we did want the bill to pass, we didn't want to outright lie about its intentions to someone who has been honest and forthright with us and blah blah blah.
 
[x] Action Plan: Percussive Therapy no Jutsu
Words: TBD

  • Talk to Mari about Lord Fuckface's bigotry. Is there anyway we can deal with him long term, without it being traced back to us?
  • Sasuke (filter through Mari)
    • Coordinate a friendly spar
    • Come clear about why we didn't state our true intentions behind passing the law
      • worry for our sister's social status and, through that, her mental health,
      • And, mostly, we're not... accustomed to having allies to call upon. Mist wasn't a place where such vulnerability was rewarded. Everyone lived in constant fear of Yugara's madness, that one day he might smite us for something he praised us for the day prior. And all of Mist was willing to sacrifice each other to the pyre of his ire if it meant they, themselves, were spared for just one more day.
        • This is an explanation, not an excuse. We were wrong not to be forthright with you.
        • As young clan heads, we both get enough of that bullshit from older, "wiser" clan heads trying to make us dance to their "more experienced" tune. It won't happen again.
    • Extend Sasuke a standing invite for our Games Nights.
 
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RandomOTP said:
So let's invite Sasuke over to our (Weekly? Monthly) game nights and then try and set up regular sparring sessions with him. We can bond over fists, shonin-style, and just, in general, get Sasuke more involved in the quest.
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imo invitations to spar is one of the most inoffensive ways to reach out to a peer, so it's definitely a good way to start getting to know each other and pave the way for friendship. By the looks of things the game night is ever so slightly less inoffensive, but its status as a communal socialization event makes it safe to attend in general.

I strongly approve of these measures.
 
We should reach out to Naruto. Repairing that bridge will be slow, but I think it's doable.

The first step is to go to him and say words to the effect of "I know you don't like or respect me, but I still like and respect you. You have an open invitation to dinner whenever you want." (and also include some specific reasons why we like and respect him in there too).

After that, the main process is to be unfailingly polite and friendly to him so that he doesn't have any excuse to dislike our personality, and above all: stop committing treason, and keep helping Leaf/Asuma.

Eventually, he'll warm up to us again. But we do need to reopen communication with him.
 
MadScientist said:
We should reach out to Naruto. Repairing that bridge will be slow, but I think it's doable.

The first step is to go to him and say words to the effect of "I know you don't like or respect me, but I still like and respect you. You have an open invitation to dinner whenever you want." (and also include some specific reasons why we like and respect him in there too).

After that, the main process is to be unfailingly polite and friendly to him so that he doesn't have any excuse to dislike our personality, and above all: stop committing treason, and keep helping Leaf/Asuma.

Eventually, he'll warm up to us again. But we do need to reopen communication with him.
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imo we're doing optimally on that front by our behaviour in the council meeting and lack of pressing the issue. We already did that dramatic 'I'm legit a good guy, stop being so biased against me' thing to him and left him alone to chew on it, and imo until we either have something new to say or feel we've demonstrated inoffensiveness and/or left him to chew on it long enough the best thing to do is continue to be inoffensive and let time pass.

By standing up for Keiko in the meeting but not going overboard and pressing the issue, we add one more tally mark to the list of times when Hazou was a reliable sensible guy. I think we'll need a few more tallies like that before he's willing to give us a second chance, and in the meantime we shouldn't try to press our luck reaching out prematurely.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
imo we're doing optimally on that front by our behaviour in the council meeting and lack of pressing the issue. We already did that dramatic 'I'm legit a good guy, stop being so biased against me' thing to him and left him alone to chew on it, and imo until we either have something new to say or feel we've demonstrated inoffensiveness and/or left him to chew on it long enough the best thing to do is continue to be inoffensive and let time pass.

By standing up for Keiko in the meeting but not going overboard and pressing the issue, we add one more tally mark to the list of times when Hazou was a reliable sensible guy. I think we'll need a few more tallies like that before he's willing to give us a second chance, and in the meantime we shouldn't try to press our luck reaching out prematurely.
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Well yes, we did do that. And then we got almost executed for treason for conspiring with the group who kidnapped and tortured him, and he voted against saving us.

So. I think that one's kinda blown.

OTOH, a simple acknowledgement that "yes we know he hates us, but we don't hate him, and he's welcome for dinner any time" could plant the seeds for him to start recognising when we act in ways he would approve of.

I'm not saying "Hey, Naruto! Come for dinner this saturday!". That would end in instant rejection, and further cement the barrier between us like you say. But an open invitation doesn't do that. An open invitation sticks in his mind, because it's something he can't just decide a singular time that he's not coming. The option will always be open to him, at the back of his mind, weakening the barrier rather than strengthening it.
 
RandomOTP said:
[x] Action Plan: Percussive Therapy no Jutsu
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@MadScientist, a question: should I add the following section to the action plan, or save it for a later update down the road? I think it matches the sort of tone you're looking for.

Naruto
  • We know you don't like us, and frankly, we're not completely sure whether or not we like you, either... But you stood up for Keiko and supported her when it might have been better for you not to do so. And we're thankful for that. We respect that.
  • It's recently been made clear to us (from Ino) that the Goketsu aren't the only clans who are fighting the good fight for Leaf, and that's made us think about just how much you've done (Shadow clone army rebuilding Leaf, helping found Kei, etc).
  • We want to acknowledge your accomplishments. We respect all that you've done. It's worth mentioning that, even though we're still not completely sure if we like you, we sure as hell respect you... And sometimes, we think that's better than merely "liking" someone.
  • Mention personal revelations regarding the absolute authority of a clan head to their clan, and how that carries over to the seat of the Hokage.
  • We were wrong to do what we did, and we see that now. We're ashamed it took such a tragedy to open our eyes, but now we see that we were wrong to do as we did.
  • We're not asking for forgiveness or absolution. We just wanted you to know that we understand, now.
  • You have an open invitation to join us for dinner, but we also understand if you'd rather not take us up on that.
 
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Oneiros said:
Meet with Neji at the Naked Jaybird
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Not sure, but it might be a good idea to switch to 'a restaurant' or something. The Naked Jaybird has lost some reputation, and while I realize we're trying to build it back up it may be a good idea to not give Neji a reason to think we're slighting him by going to a less reputable place.

Not to mention Hinata might come along to make sure Neji doesn't embarrass himself, in which case we might accidentally insult their clan head as well as their summoner.
 
RandomOTP said:
and frankly, we're not completely sure whether or not we like you, either...
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Nope. Abort. Abort.

This entire strategy depends on continuously signalling that we DO very much like and respect him, and not in a begrudging way, either. Trying to turn this into an emotionally-transactional "I'll like you more if you like me more" thing ruins it.

It's really difficult to hold a grudge against someone who genuinely likes you a lot and keeps helping your agendas. That is what we're doing here.

I really think that the conversation as you've phrased it would do more harm than good.

(Also: Hazou does not think what he did was wrong, and he is not ashamed of it, so super don't bring that up.)
 
MadScientist said:
Nope. Abort. Abort.

This entire strategy depends on continuously signalling that we DO very much like and respect him, and not in a begrudging way, either. Trying to turn this into an emotionally-transactional "I'll like you more if you like me more" thing ruins it.

It's really difficult to hold a grudge against someone who genuinely likes you a lot and keeps helping your agendas. That is what we're doing here.

I really think that the conversation as you've phrased it would do more harm than good.

(Also: Hazou does not think what he did was wrong, and he is not ashamed of it, so super don't bring that up.)
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Oh, I thought you were going for a sort of reluctant respect evolves into mutual friendship thing. As for Hazou not being ashamed of what he did, I'd argue that there's enough context to say that he does... Though now that you mention it, that might be something that needs to be shown on-screen, rather than assumed.

I won't add it to the plan, then. Thanks for the feedback! ^.^
 
RandomOTP said:
Oh, I thought you were going for a sort of reluctant respect evolves into mutual friendship thing. As for Hazou not being ashamed of what he did, I'd argue that there's enough context to say that he does... Though now that you mention it, that might be something that needs to be shown on-screen, rather than assumed.

I won't add it to the plan, then. Thanks for the feedback! ^.^
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I'm not trying to be negative here. If you start by assuming the premise of the strategy you thought I had in mind, then the way you went about it was really good. I just think that strategy isn't a great one. :p
 
There has been some discussion on discord about adding Keiko and Noburi to the negotiations with Neji since that would allow us to use our standard tactics to keep him off balances. There was also discussion of raising Noburi's rapport which we could get to 35 and buy him the chakra enhancement jutsu. WHat do y'all think?
 
Oneiros said:
There has been some discussion on discord about adding Keiko and Noburi to the negotiations with Neji since that would allow us to use our standard tactics to keep him off balances. There was also discussion of raising Noburi's rapport which we could get to 35 and buy him the chakra enhancement jutsu. WHat do y'all think?
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IIRC Noburi wasn't sure how the jutsu would interact with his bloodline? Rest looks good, though I would caution that Neji might not be as willing to go in alone if he knew our whole team was gonna meet him. He'd bring his own backup, methinks.
 
Noburi needs his base stats raised. He's a summoner, he's going to be sent on missions, spending XP on rapport right now is going to kill him.
 
Oneiros said:
There has been some discussion on discord about adding Keiko and Noburi to the negotiations with Neji since that would allow us to use our standard tactics to keep him off balances. There was also discussion of raising Noburi's rapport which we could get to 35 and buy him the chakra enhancement jutsu. WHat do y'all think?
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Not sure if that would help, honestly. Keiko is likely a "deviant" in Neji's eyes and Noburi's never gotten along with Neji. Having them be a part of the negotiations would probably throw Neji off, but it'd also sour the whole tone of the discussion.

Especially since one of Yuno's chapters shows that Neji thinks non-leaf ninja are "uncouth barbarians." If Neji would say that to the face of his potential wife, then Neji would likely say worse to Keiko's face. And then we would be obligated to verbally/physically punch Neji's face in. Which... might make things awkward between the Goketsu and the Hyuuga. The exact opposite of what we want right now.

I'd say a hard no on Keiko being there, and a tentative no on Noburi. We could always send a missive, asking if Neji would be comfortable with us bringing them to the discussion, since the topic of it involves them. If we do so, then we should probably state something along the lines of "we understand how this might look, so if you would be more comfortable bringing your own parties to the table as witnesses, that's completely okay."

As for the rapport? Unless it's mandatory to buy the chakra enhancement (which may or may not work with Noburi, because VD) I'd say leave it. Noburi's a Summoner, which means dangerous missions, which means he needs to get stronk ASAP. I'd say leave his rapport alone for now and funnel the xp to other places.
 
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If we wanted to funnel the XP somewhere not useful in combat, I'd definitely say to put it in Resolve so that when we figure out a way for him to use shadow clone he can immediately start fooming.
 
Current plan. Updated Neji section. Cut the Misc section down to help with word count. Sorry @Sentient Tree
Oneiros said:
major changes: Increased detail on Neji section, cut down misc due to word count

[X] Action plan: A gossamer web with sunlight illuminating it
Time period: 3 days

  • Dogs:
    • Manufacture bags and sleds, then deliver to Canoe.
    • Spend some time paying our respect to Kakashi with them.
      • Specifically to any dogs he had as summons or knew well.
    • See if we can meet more of the clan and learn their culture.
      • Consult with the Inuzuka to try to find the best method to interact with them
    • If we prove our worth to Cannai and bond with the dogs try to find summons to contract
  • Meet with Neji at the Naked Jaybird
    • Optimize with Keiko and Mari
      • Spend a fate point to invoke the aspect list and plans since this conversation will be scripted and carefully practiced
      • Make sure to customize the menu to Neji's taste
    • We would like to discuss 7th paths trade
    • If all the summoners in Konoha work together we can create an instantaneous transportation network between all the clans and anywhere in Fire country
      • Allowing every summoner to become vastly wealthy
    • We could also sell an exclusive contract with companies to increase our profits
    • We propose that each summoner and the trade network each gets an even split of the profits
      • (with 4 summoners. Each summoner would get 20% with the remaining 20% going to the trade network)
    • Talking points
      • This is between fellow summoners not between clans
        • Only those of us who have travelled through the plans are worthy (Invoke Aspect fellow summoners if possible)
      • In addition this will help keep all of Team Gai close
        • Lee is on our short list for next years adoption
        • While TenTen and Keiko are incredibly close
  • Begin looking through Jiariya's journals for information on Orochimaru
  • Misc:
    • Continue seal research.
      • If we finish Chakdar move on to LBF
    • Task Mari with acquiring all the grape producing land
    • Noburi should recruit more summons
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