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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
I'd put in my plan us talking to the Uchiha, Hagoromo, and the Amori, and I think there was discussion regarding using the whole grape-land thing as leverage?
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I meant that the plan that was put into action had a timeline of 5 days and didn't address the vote. So we didn't do much in the way of coordination, other than that talk with Ino from the chapter prior.

To clarify, I'm not upset or angry. Actually, I'm rather amused at myself (in a twisted sort of way). I spoke against timelines, but not from a narrative perspective (in this case: more time to coordinate), which is the perspective I usually argue from.
 
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I mean, it was Keiko and Shikamaru who didn't tell Asuma, hence why she's the one he is disappointed in.

Also Keiko gave in far too easily. That was her mistake. She should have fought to keep that poison pill provision in and only given it up when forced.
 
RandomOTP said:
If you're that upset, then say something before voting closes. I sympathize with your issue, but complaining about it only after something goes wrong is simply too little, too late. Raise your concerns during the voting process, THEN claim the moral high ground of "I told you so."

Because complaining about the cows getting out AFTER they get out is pointless, especially if you're not going to help check the barn doors.
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I follow literally dozens of different quests and I have no way of knowing when the voting will close or even if people have made a plan short of exhaustively reading every post in this very prolific thread. I'm not complaining about the cows getting out after, I'm saying 'next time make sure the cows don't get out by doing this' and when I come back later the cows are out again.
 
Shane_357 said:
I follow literally dozens of different quests and I have no way of knowing when the voting will close
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Well, you do, but perhaps you haven't ever asked:

12 noon London time on Wednesdays for Velorien

9am (or later, sometimes) NYC time on Saturdays for EJ.

(AFAIR at least, it has always been that. @faflec ?)
 
Shane_357 said:
I follow literally dozens of different quests and I have no way of knowing when the voting will close or even if people have made a plan short of exhaustively reading every post in this very prolific thread. I'm not complaining about the cows getting out after, I'm saying 'next time make sure the cows don't get out by doing this' and when I come back later the cows are out again.
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It's at the end of almost every update, you just have to read. As for not having the time to read everyone's comment? Fair enough, but it's not that hard to keep up to date on which action plan is winning (thread tools, use them) and then chime in with your thoughts.

You seem to be missing my point about the cows. Fair enough, southern similes and metaphors aren't for everyone. I'm saying that you're wandering in after something bad happens, saying "oh, that was preventable and you're all such idiots for not catching that. Woe to you simple fools, if only you had listened to my advice! Truly, then you would have been saved!" And then you wander off again.

If you want to rightfully own the moral high ground you so lovingly stake, then do more than that. Be a solution, be an active voice. If you're too busy to be that active of a voter, that's fine, but you lose that precious high ground.

You cannot, rationally, abstain from voting while also whining about how said voting turns out. Don't like the way the voting turns out? Then be more active in subsequent plans or, better yet, make your own.
 
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[X] Kagome celebrates Hazou's grue'd birthday in private

I mean, all the other Uplift members get these full-length chapters for their birthdays with presents so narratively important they start entire sub-arcs, and Hazou gets nothing of note? This is clearly why.
 
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RandomOTP said:
It's at the end of almost every update, you just have to read. As for not having the time to read everyone's comment? Fair enough, but it's not that hard to keep up to date on which action plan is winning (thread tools, use them) and then chime in with your thoughts.

You seem to be missing my point about the cows. Fair enough, southern similes and metaphors aren't for everyone. I'm saying that you're wandering in after something bad happens, saying "oh, that was preventable and you're all such idiots for not catching that. Woe to you simple fools, if only you had listened to my advice! Truly, then you would have been saved!" And then you wander off again.

If you want to rightfully own the moral high ground you so lovingly stake, then do more than that. Be a solution, be an active voice. If you're too busy to be that active of a voter, that's fine, but you lose that precious high ground.

You cannot, rationally, abstain from voting while also whining about how said voting turns out. Don't like the way the voting turns out? Then be more active in subsequent plans or, better yet, make your own.
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That's your way of putting it. Mine is 'I told you not to stick a fork in the power socket, why are you sticking the fork in the power socket?!'
 
Shane_357 said:
That's your way of putting it. Mine is 'I told you not to stick a fork in the power socket, why are you sticking the fork in the power socket?!'
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More like:

"Hey don't stick a fork in the power socket"

"Uh, okay. I wasn't intending on it, but...thanks?"

"OMG YOUR FRIEND STUCK A FORK IN A POWER SOCKET YOU BUFFOON, HOW COULD YOU DO THIS"

The Goketsu are good about updating Asuma, the Nara made this mistake. Stop saying everyone is an idiot dumb-dumb for not foreseeing this and suplexing Keiko as she wrote the legislation while self-congratulating yourself for being so insightful
 
Velorien said:
"Imbeciles," Lord Kurusu spat. "If they'd chosen my uncle, may his spirit be forever one with the Will of Fire, Sainan would have been a rout and we would all be speaking Rock right now."

"The people of Hidden Rock share our native language, Lord Kurusu," Keiko said with the faintest touch of disdain. "Their most common dialect, known as Lithic, is perfectly comprehensible once one accounts for the vowel shifts."
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Nitpick: If all major nations in the EN speak the same language, and we don't know of the world beyond, then whence does this expression ("we would be all speaking [the language of the conqueror]") even come from? How is it still widely used? I suppose they would know that other languages exist from ancient texts and interactions with the Summons, but the underlying idea of "a foreign nation would speak a different language and if they win we'll have to learn too " seems like it should've never originated to begin with. Or died out by now, assuming that pre-chakra there were multiple nations and the expression came from back then.
 
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Noumero said:
Nitpick: If all major nations in the EN speak the same language, and we don't know of the world beyond, then whence does this expression ("we would be all speaking [the language of the conqueror]") even come from? How is it still widely used? I suppose they would know that other languages exist from ancient texts and interactions with the Summons, but the underlying idea of "a foreign nation would speak a different language and if they win we'll have to learn too " seems like it should've never originated to begin with. Or died out by now, assuming that pre-chakra there were multiple nations and the expression came from back then.
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MfD is a translation from the language of the Elemental Nations to English. @Velorien and I do our best to prevent translation difficulties but sometimes, as in this case, there's an idiom being used that doesn't have a good English translation and the literal version would be far too wordy. In those cases we go with a "best fit" approach, which is what Velorien did here.
 
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We might want to schedule a weekly appointment with Asuma to explain how we're going to try to take over the world revolutionize his sewer system this time.
 
Waffle said:
We might want to schedule a weekly appointment with Asuma to explain how we're going to try to take over the world revolutionize his sewer system this time.
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My understanding is that we're making a model for our clan first, yes? It might be prudent to give the completed model (i.e., once we've finished the sewer system for our clan) so that he can judge its completed version instead of a half-finished...thing.

In this case, the sewer system only on the Gouketsu clan doesn't really affect Asuma negatively (assuming that Gouketsu prosperity is not a bad thing for Asuma).
 
MEANWHILE IN THE PURE LANDS:

HIASHI: Hah. You know what time it is, Jiraiya? Time to watch your kids get in over their heads again.

JIRAIYA: Yeah, yeah, go trip on a falling building or something.

Velorien said:
The silence was deafening. Regent Kyōsuke's face was thoroughly schooled, much like the man himself had just been.
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INOICHI: WELL HOT DAMN!

SHIKAKU: Heh.

SHIKIGAMI + SHINJI: incoherent shouting over tankards of craft beer

HIASHI: Come on, say something you useless pile of Hyuuga. Come on.

JIRAIYA: Your politician just got schooled by a fifteen year old that's literally been imprisoned for treason in this village. Twice.

ZABUZA: I'm surprised the Senju isn't jumping up to treat his burn wounds.

NAGATO: Which Hyuuga's?

ZABUZA: Yes.
 
faflec said:
My understanding is that we're making a model for our clan first, yes? It might be prudent to give the completed model (i.e., once we've finished the sewer system for our clan) so that he can judge its completed version instead of a half-finished...thing.

In this case, the sewer system only on the Gouketsu clan doesn't really affect Asuma negatively (assuming that Gouketsu prosperity is not a bad thing for Asuma).
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You're certainly right. My point is that we're doing radical things on a regular basis: we've just massively changed our approach to criminal justice, introduced an alien (as in: non human and not from our world) religion to Fire, backed a plan that could upset marital alliances and strategies for the nobility, and that's just last week. (or it might not be, I'm not too sure of the chronology). Anyway I think we're always going to ruffle some feathers.
 
Waffle said:
You're certainly right. My point is that we're doing radical things on a regular basis: we've just massively changed our approach to criminal justice, introduced an alien (as in: non human and not from our world) religion to Fire, backed a plan that could upset marital alliances and strategies for the nobility, and that's just last week. (or it might not be, I'm not too sure of the chronology). Anyway I think we're always going to ruffle some feathers.
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I will observe that Naruto, who is more politically astute and loyal to Asuma, also backed the plan. And despite his claims during the actual vote, he was fully aware that Keiko was in love with Tenten, as he was present when Snowflake revealed, among other things, Keiko falling in love with Tenten. Shikamaru you can make the excuse of being too swamped to realize, but Naruto? If he made the same mistake I did (not telling Asuma because he assumed others had), I don't think that our mistake here is so bad.

Side note: It's interesting to note that all of the things you mentioned have been done with...well, minimal input from the hivemind. We certainly reacted after Ikenaga, but most everything was done as a response and the former two (the criminal justice and religious things) were done with Asuma's support AFAICT.
 
faflec said:
I will observe that Naruto, who is more politically astute and loyal to Asuma, also backed the plan. And despite his claims during the actual vote, he was fully aware that Keiko was in love with Tenten, as he was present when Snowflake revealed, among other things, Keiko falling in love with Tenten. Shikamaru you can make the excuse of being too swamped to realize, but Naruto? If he made the same mistake I did (not telling Asuma because he assumed others had), I don't think that our mistake here is so bad.

Side note: It's interesting to note that all of the things you mentioned have been done with...well, minimal input from the hivemind. We certainly reacted after Ikenaga, but most everything was done as a response and the former two (the criminal justice and religious things) were done with Asuma's support AFAICT.
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Nobody seemed to have told Naruto what the intent of the law was, regradless if he knew about their relationship.

Funny enough, Yuno was at Keiko's birthday and would know.

Also, none of this is our mistake.

Shikamrau and Ami intended to trick most other clans:

Velorien said:
Shikamaru nodded seriously. "Through no small fault of your late husband, anyone hearing the word 'concubine' will naturally visualise a harem in which a single powerful man is doted upon by a selection of beautiful women who inexplicably have nothing better to do. An unfortunate misunderstanding which, alas, this document carelessly perpetuates even as it fails to specify such basics as the gender and marital status of either person in the relationship."
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It's probably good that we didn't try to convince anyone else, unless of course we would have told other clan heads about the actual intention of the law. Which got surprising support anyway, so this "desception" wasn't even necessary, Sasuke might not have cared if he didn't feel lied to, for example.

For once, nobody is annoyed at us and we can continue to buy land from a very conservative clan and screw the neutral one.
 
major changes: Increased detail on Neji section, cut down misc due to word count

[X] Action plan: A gossamer web with sunlight illuminating it
Time period: 3 days
  • Dogs:
    • Manufacture bags and sleds, then deliver to Canoe.
    • Spend some time paying our respect to Kakashi with them.
      • Specifically to any dogs he had as summons or knew well.
    • See if we can meet more of the clan and learn their culture.
      • Consult with the Inuzuka to try to find the best method to interact with them
    • If we prove our worth to Cannai and bond with the dogs try to find summons to contract
  • Meet with Neji at the Naked Jaybird
    • Optimize with Keiko and Mari (-1FP, invoke "Lists and Plans" during the conversation)
      • Make sure the menu is customized to Neji's taste.
    • We'd like to discuss Seventh Path trade:
      • If all the summoners in Konoha work together, we can create an instantaneous transportation network between all the clans and anywhere in Fire, allowing them to become vastly wealthy.
      • We could also sell an exclusive contract with companies to increase our profits:
      • We would split the profits evenly between each summoner and the trade network.
        • (e.g., 4 summoners: Each summoner gets 20% with 20% going to the trade network)
    • Talking points:
      • This is between fellow summoners, not between clans:
        • Only those of us who have travelled through the Paths are worthy (-1FP, tag "Fellow Summoners")
      • This will also keep Team Gai close:
        • Lee is on our short list for next year's adoption.
  • Begin looking through Jiariya's journals for information on Orochimaru.
  • Misc:
    • Continue seal research.
      • If we finish Chakdar move on to LBF
    • Task Mari with acquiring all the grape producing land
      • Nothing treasonous
    • Noburi should recruit more summons
    • Bring in more engineers for skyslider, look into recruiting a wind-type jutsu user who can functionally be a wind tunnel for testing​
 
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Velorien said:
Hazō could only hope Uchiha Sasuke wasn't the grudge-bearing type.
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This is the most canon referencing shade I've seen since since "if Hermione Granger wasn't a Ravenclaw, what's even the point of the house"

Inferno Vulpix said:
We should tell Mari about this meeting, apropos of nothing. Paying particular attention to the kind words of Lord Hagoromo.
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On the one hand, that seems like it'll go down a darker path than we want. On the other hand, it would be entertaining, and she's an adult (and also entirely likely to find out anyway, because she's Mari), so I'm on board.
 
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