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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Kiba said:
All I am saying that this chakra farm idea will be harder to manage and cost more than you think initially, especially for a clan of six people.
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I'm inclined to agree, in addition to not really seeing the necessity when there's a wilderness full of monsters that need killing anyway to protect the civilians.

Cariyaga said:
I would be very dissapointed in Kagome if he let our faces get eaten.
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Making a monster farm sounds like the sort of thing that Kagome would call you an imbecile and rant at you for hours for suggesting, though, while enumerating all the ways it could go horribly wrong.
 
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TaliesinSkye said:
Making a monster farm sounds like the sort of thing that Kagome would call you an imbecile and rant at you for hours for suggesting, though, while enumerating all the ways it could go horribly wrong.
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Yes, but is it also the sort of thing that he'd start mentioning the advantages of mid-rant and end up convincing himself of the idea and ending the rant in support of it?
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Yes, but is it also the sort of thing that he'd start mentioning the advantages of mid-rant and end up convincing himself of the idea and ending the rant in support of it?
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What are the advantages though? Monsters aren't a scarce resource. Why spend resources to make more? Monsters are so close to settlements that it doesn't seem like much of a convenience factor.
 
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I'm not sure who came up with the mobile force wall pressure stuff, but I drew pretty pictures for it.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
What are the advantages though? Monsters aren't a scarce resource. Why spend resources to make more? Monsters are so close to settlements that it doesn't seem like much of a convenience factor.
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There are enough chakra beasts hanging around nearby that if we wanted chakra we could go and hunt for it pretty easily, yeah, but tracking and fighting chakra beasts down requires time and energy invested and can also cost our own chakra. I expect that a proper chakra beast farm (we can look to the Wakahisa and their 'ornamental' pools for inspiration) would be much faster and easier than hunting ourselves.

If we can find a suitably chakraful and docile chakra beast and create a farm out of them, we can pay civilians to take care of caring for them, effectively creating a mechanism where we can exchange money for chakra (as opposed to exchanging time, effort, and chakra for chakra). Keiko's deal with the pangolins means that we may very well have more money on our hands than time, and in that case such a mechanism becomes valuable.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
There are enough chakra beasts hanging around nearby that if we wanted chakra we could go and hunt for it pretty easily, yeah, but tracking and fighting chakra beasts down requires time and energy invested and can also cost our own chakra. I expect that a proper chakra beast farm (we can look to the Wakahisa and their 'ornamental' pools for inspiration) would be much faster and easier than hunting ourselves.

If we can find a suitably chakraful and docile chakra beast and create a farm out of them, we can pay civilians to take care of caring for them, effectively creating a mechanism where we can exchange money for chakra (as opposed to exchanging time, effort, and chakra for chakra). Keiko's deal with the pangolins means that we may very well have more money on our hands than time, and in that case such a mechanism becomes valuable.
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You know, in the Swamp of Death there were a ton of chakra-enhanced plants. I wonder if we can figure out a way to collect those instead of actual animals, and start a mini-swamp in our backyard. It would save money food, if the plants don't eat flesh.
 
Could we try aquatic chakra beasts? Ones that can't survive outside of water, like most fish? Or at least don't like to leave the water? The benefit is that they're already in water for Noburi to drain.
We'd also have to make sure the beasts we use are too big to fit through the gaps in our 5SB grates/cage.
 
Cariyaga said:
Much more important to make contacts from Lightning, Rock, and Sand, imo.
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We're disrupting the geopolitical landscape already by trying to make a never before seen alliance between two major nations. If we manage to pull this off we can then move onto making other agreements.

We don't even have this one bird in hand yet; let's not get ahead of ourselves by trying to go after four more in various hostile bushes.
 
Cariyaga said:
Chakra isn't that easy to get for most ninja. Shadow Clone is a technique that uses a shitton of chakra and sends its memories back to you when it's done, making it ideal for training.
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Ah, that helps a bit. Is there a way to get chakra from monsters without a Wakahisa's assistance, or does this depend on Noburi?

Inferno Vulpix said:
There are enough chakra beasts hanging around nearby that if we wanted chakra we could go and hunt for it pretty easily, yeah, but tracking and fighting chakra beasts down requires time and energy invested and can also cost our own chakra. I expect that a proper chakra beast farm (we can look to the Wakahisa and their 'ornamental' pools for inspiration) would be much faster and easier than hunting ourselves.

If we can find a suitably chakraful and docile chakra beast and create a farm out of them, we can pay civilians to take care of caring for them, effectively creating a mechanism where we can exchange money for chakra (as opposed to exchanging time, effort, and chakra for chakra). Keiko's deal with the pangolins means that we may very well have more money on our hands than time, and in that case such a mechanism becomes valuable.
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I suppose that makes sense. Although...if regular fish provide Noburi chakra, then we could use regular animals too, right? There's got to be a supply of cattle and stuff being slaughtered anyway.

Also, roughly how long does it take a normal ninja to recharge their chakra pool from basically empty to full?
 
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Any reason we can't just have a standard fish farm? They're incredibly high density, provide a ton of food for a small amount of labor, and can probably support our chakra draining needs.

Institute a selective breeding program and we'll even get chakra returns that ramp up over time.
 
Dictator4Hire said:
We're disrupting the geopolitical landscape already by trying to make a never before seen alliance between two major nations. If we manage to pull this off we can then move onto making other agreements.

We don't even have this one bird in hand yet; let's not get ahead of ourselves by trying to go after four more in various hostile bushes.
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We're not trying to go after the birds, we're just laying out seed for them.
 
Also, we sorely need to develop chakra visualization seals. Just as a method to help scientific research and medical practice.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
Ah, that helps a bit. Is there a way to get chakra from monsters without a Wakahisa's assistance, or does this depend on Noburi?



I suppose that makes sense. Although...if regular fish provide Noburi chakra, then we could use regular animals too, right? There's got to be a supply of cattle and stuff being slaughtered anyway.

Also, roughly how long does it take a normal ninja to recharge their chakra pool from basically empty to full?
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It's dependent on Noburi, yeah. 24 hours to recharge.
Dictator4Hire said:
We're disrupting the geopolitical landscape already by trying to make a never before seen alliance between two major nations. If we manage to pull this off we can then move onto making other agreements.

We don't even have this one bird in hand yet; let's not get ahead of ourselves by trying to go after four more in various hostile bushes.
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Also, never-before-seen is a bit much: Leaf is already allied with Sand. If we don't make motions that indicate we remain peacable toward the other nation now, they may well unite against our coalition instead of joining it.
 
Here is something that I wrote up the last time we were talking about chakra farms.

Immortal Lurker said:
I've got an idea for the chakra farm, apologies if anyone beat me to this.

Chakra voles. They are tiny, easy to take care of, and breed like lightning (3 weeks to gestate, 1 month to reproductive maturity, 5-10 litters a year, 5-10 voles a litter.)

Creation and Design

Use pangolins and earth jutsu to dig a large cavern below the bedrock. Carve large air-holes, but make sure they are hidden from the surface. Block the air-holes with 5SB wire mesh, to prevent entry and escape. Also disguise the smell, somehow.

Wide, flat cages are made by MEW, complete with a granite ceiling. I'm thinking 5'x5'x9"For each cage, a wire mesh viewing port and raised floor are reinforced via 5SB. An airlock style hatch for feeding is placed on top, and is reinforced by two more 5SB. A final hatch for transferring voles is placed on the front, and reinforced with a single 5SB A drainage system reaches beneath the wire mesh floor, so that the cage can be periodically cleaned. The drain lead to a holding tank, where the water and waste can be separated via jutsu, with the waste put into a storage seal.

If necessary, the entire cage can be made of 5SB wire mesh, though I don't think chakra voles can get through granite.

The cages can be stacked on top of each other, though the feeding hopper means they will have to have some space in between them.

Maintenance

They are fed through the airlock either from our own underground garden or from produce purchased on the 7th path. I prefer to buy from the Toads, unless we can find something else the Pangolins want. I am nervous about having so many things relying on only one trade good.

Simple maintenance tasks such as cleaning and feeding will be done via elemental clones, which we can sustain due to getting absurd amounts of chakra.

Dangerous maintenance, such as the removal of dead voles, transferring mice between cages, and replacing 5SBs is only conducted when Noburi is actually present, and after the entire cage has been drained to the point of unconsciousness.

We should be able to maintain 1000s of voles like this. See this for an idea of how dense we can pack these things. Except we can get denser than that, because we don't care about them being comfortable. We can generate as much ice as we like via Akane, to keep them from cooking in their own body heat.

Security

Security by Kagome, of course, but with three suggestions:
  • An airlock system that requires completely submerging in water to get in or out. Any voles hitchhiking voles will likely start to struggle when the air suddenly goes away.
  • Clones on either side of the airlock. The only job for the inside clone is to sound an alarm if it sees any other clone die. The only job for the clone on the outside is to run and get help if it hears an alarm.
  • At least a clone or two who patrol the whole site, that kill any voles that somehow escape their cages, and sound an alarm. We don't want any ecological harm/evidence of the farm.

Sanity check

And now for the most important step: Why hasn't anyone else done this? Which is really: why haven't the Wakahisa done this?

How do we know they haven't? We already know of the Koi pond, but that to me seems too symbolic and thematic. An open secret that everyone expects, to disguise the real one. Noburi hasn't heard of it because they can't let everyone in the clan know, or everyone would know, and ninja would be sent to destroy the farm. And if the Wakahisa seem to have an abnormally large amount of chakra to throw around in everyday life, well, large chakra reserves are kind of their thing.
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