RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

soulcake · Apr 21, 2020

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)

Horium · May 31, 2023

Alratan said:
Having seen how Grungni broke the Rule of Three, I think that the Brotherhood is misguided in its approach.

The way He did it was to prevent the apparent destructive interference produced when having too many runes on an item. The Brotherhood trying to find a material that can stand up to the destructive interference seems to be missing the point.

Well, it's not as much missing the point, as it is choosing the "easy" way out.

EVA-Saiyajin · May 31, 2023

Urkdrengi

I can easily believe him doing better with Gromril what we can imagine doing with Adamant.

But the question is, if he clearly had Adamant available, why did he use Gromril…?

Alratan · May 31, 2023

EVA-Saiyajin said:
I can easily believe him doing better with Gromril what we can imagine doing with Adamant.

But the question is, if he clearly had Adamant available, why did he use Gromril…?

Depends on the timeline. He may have made this axe before they'd learned how to make adamant.

DragonParadox · May 31, 2023

EVA-Saiyajin said:
I can easily believe him doing better with Gromril what we can imagine doing with Adamant.

But the question is, if he clearly had Adamant available, why did he use Gromril…?

Maybe he did not have adamant at the time. It's not like the ancestors never developed their craft.

LaggPlaguedDuke · May 31, 2023

That increases the absurdity of the feat if they managed 5 runes before figuring out adamant since normal runesmiths can independently figure adamant out on their own meaning it is much simpler to discover. Either everyone is missing something fundamental about how to inscribe runes that no Ancestor bothered to correct or the Ancestor's brute forced it with Divine magic.

It does bring up the question of why the Brotherhood is so focused on adamant as well. You'd think Thungni would at least try teaching Durin how they did it and so he'd know it can be done with basic gromril. Then the most obvious way to go being figuring out what the rune layering technique is doing. Could be that while he was trying and failing at that the Ancestors made adamant and he changed tracks to the high energy tree and founded the Brotherhood after that.

BungieONI · May 31, 2023

soulcake said:
Everything in its construction is perfectly within the means of any Runesmith to acquire, and maybe that is the point. Every last aspect of this axe is perfection incarnate; as if drawing the very idea of what an axe, and the materials that make it up, is from a Dwarf's mind and imprinting it upon reality.

My take is that knowing what we know of Grungni's personality and challenge setting habits, and Snorri's comment about the stuff being entirely within the reach of any Runesmith, that Grungni actually made it out of Gromril for two reasons; it achieved what he wanted out of it with Gromril, and he made it out of Gromril, Gold, and Wutroth to make a demonstration of what is possible for future generations that might examine it.

E: This whole concept of "As if drawing the very idea of what an axe, and the materials that make it up" from the mind and into reality is also a concept that came up in Skarren's own forging - an Ideal, wrought onto mortal plane.

soulcake · May 31, 2023

#Rune-Ideas . Jeez, only two weeks and 30 something Runes. :^0

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of Stonehide:

Rune of Alloys:

Master Rune of Iron Rain:

#Rune Ideas

Rain and Stonehide are fine. Alloys original effect is now a future research reward, changed effect.

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of the Untouched:

Master Rune of the Resolute:

Master Rune of Hugrim Peacemaker:

#Rune Ideas

Untouched and Resolute added. Weapon, Armour, Banner and talismanic version of Peacemaker are fine.

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of the Great Stag:

Master Rune of Unicorns:

#Rune Ideas

Added

Voikirium said:
Rune of The Scaleslasher:

(Master? Genuinely not sure) Rune of Firefoe:

#Rune Ideas

Scaleslaher is fine. Firefoe requires knowledge of the Winds I think, so lemme think if this is something Vragni would make.

ArchAIngel said:
The Runes Of Runelord Flork Florksson.

Rune of Explosion:

Rune of Explosive Armor:

Master Rune of Flork Florksson/Reactive Armor:

Master Rune of Explosive Propulsion:

Rune of Burning Explosions:

Master Rune of Burning Craters:

Master Rune of Volcanic Fury:
--------------------------------
#rune-ideas

Because sometimes, the best shitpost is one made entirely seriously.

Added Master Rune of Flork Florksson and shoved explosive propulsion as the talismanic variant under it. Volanic Fury added, not by Flork though.

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of Broken Darkness:

Master Rune of Wutroth:

#rune-ideas

Broken Darkness has become the weapon variant of Cruel Sun, Wutroth Added.

Dragonofelder said:
#Rune-ideas

Rune of Containment: Designed to halt the spread of warp corruption, be it in the form of Warpstone or dark artifacts. Against active attack it can fail, but otherwise it can hold for a thousand years or more.

needs a quirk, basic Runes of warding and anti magic Runes and such do a similar enough job on their own.

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of Thungni's Endurance:

#rune-ideas

Added.

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of the Twin-Tailed Comet:

#rune-ideas

The idea itself is fine, the lore behind it won't be canon. Whether such a thing is possible I will not reveal barring you guys trying it.

ArchAIngel said:
(Master?) Rune of Devastating Miscasts:

Hmm, most miscasts already do terrible things to the wizard. I assume this is just massively increasing the miscast chance of one targeted wizard?

Dragonofelder said:
#Rune-Ideas

Rune of Starlight:

Rune of Far Whispers:

Added. Far Whispers as a future rune/research reward.

Voikirium said:
Rune of Choler: A veil of anger settles over the wearer, leaving no room for fear, and little room for terror.

#Rune-Ideas

Added.

Voikirium · May 31, 2023

soulcake said:
#Rune-Ideas . Jeez, only two weeks and 30 something Runes. :^0

Rain and Stonehide are fine. Alloys original effect is now a future research reward, changed effect.

Untouched and Resolute added. Weapon, Armour, Banner and talismanic version of Peacemaker are fine.

Added

Scaleslaher is fine. Firefoe requires knowledge of the Winds I think, so lemme think if this is something Vragni would make.

Added Master Rune of Flork Florksson and shoved explosive propulsion as the talismanic variant under it. Volanic Fury added, not by Flork though.

Broken Darkness has become the weapon variant of Cruel Sun, Wutroth Added.

needs a quirk, basic Runes of warding and anti magic Runes and such do a similar enough job on their own.

Added.

The idea itself is fine, the lore behind it won't be canon. Whether such a thing is possible I will not reveal barring you guys trying it.

Hmm, most miscasts already do terrible things to the wizard. I assume this is just massively increasing the miscast chance of one targeted wizard?

Added. Far Whispers as a future rune/research reward.

Added.

Neat! Do you mind if I ask about this one, though?

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of the Abjurer: Damn the world, for it is all wrapped up in cruelty, and cruelty done to the Dwarfs at that. That which is of this world burns like so much tinder at the edge of the ax and the face of the hammer; but that which is not, such as the undead and the forces of Chaos, does not.

A reminder that Dwarf spite is not always and only pointed at those who merit it. The creator is unknown, but their cause is not.

ArchAIngel · May 31, 2023

soulcake said:
#Rune-Ideas . Jeez, only two weeks and 30 something Runes. :^0

Rain and Stonehide are fine. Alloys original effect is now a future research reward, changed effect.

Untouched and Resolute added. Weapon, Armour, Banner and talismanic version of Peacemaker are fine.

Added

Scaleslaher is fine. Firefoe requires knowledge of the Winds I think, so lemme think if this is something Vragni would make.

Added Master Rune of Flork Florksson and shoved explosive propulsion as the talismanic variant under it. Volanic Fury added, not by Flork though.

Broken Darkness has become the weapon variant of Cruel Sun, Wutroth Added.

needs a quirk, basic Runes of warding and anti magic Runes and such do a similar enough job on their own.

Added.

The idea itself is fine, the lore behind it won't be canon. Whether such a thing is possible I will not reveal barring you guys trying it.

Hmm, most miscasts already do terrible things to the wizard. I assume this is just massively increasing the miscast chance of one targeted wizard?

Added. Far Whispers as a future rune/research reward.

Added.

Effectively yeah, it's not a good defense against magic as the spell goes off, but it sure does make that spell going off suck for both of you.

Also hooray that Flork Florksson is a thing!

soulcake · May 31, 2023

Voikirium said:
Master Rune of the Abjurer: Damn the world, for it is all wrapped up in cruelty, and cruelty done to the Dwarfs at that. That which is of this world burns like so much tinder at the edge of the ax and the face of the hammer; but that which is not, such as the undead and the forces of Chaos, does not.

A reminder that Dwarf spite is not always and only pointed at those who merit it. The creator is unknown, but their cause is not.

Didnt have Rune-ideas, guess thats how I missed it. HMMM. Effect isn't really that crazy, lore is the major thing, but not horribly so. A Runesmith falling independently wouldn't be too out there frankly. Iunno, lemme think. I'll add the Rune and effect at least. Dunno about the fluff.

Voikirium · May 31, 2023

soulcake said:
Didnt have Rune-ideas, guess thats how I missed it. HMMM. Effect isn't really that crazy, lore is the major thing, but not horribly so. A Runesmith falling independently wouldn't be too out there frankly. Iunno, lemme think. I'll add the Rune and effect at least. Dunno about the fluff.

Oh, sorry about that.

mastigos · Jun 1, 2023

soulcake said:
So now you're left wondering, if Gromril is a perfectly suitable material to hold more than three Runes, that it can in fact contain all that power, why can you not manage the same? Grungni is an Ancestor and many of the rules that apply to you do not to Him, but you can't help but wonder if the fault may instead lie with you and not the materials you use.

Does Snorri happen to know enough history to be able to tell if there's any indication that the capabilities of each Ancestor changed after their personal Ancestor Rune was discovered/invented? We know those Runes are weirdly and uniquely morphic compared to other Runes and chalk that up to their association with the Ancestor Gods but now I'm wondering if the connection is even deeper.

soulcake · Jun 1, 2023

mastigos said:
Does Snorri happen to know enough history to be able to tell if there's any indication that the capabilities of each Ancestor changed after their personal Ancestor Rune was discovered/invented? We know those Runes are weirdly and uniquely morphic compared to other Runes and chalk that up to their association with the Ancestor Gods but now I'm wondering if the connection is even deeper.

None at all, or at at least at levels you would have noticed.

Mayto · Jun 1, 2023

SuperHeavy said:
No one knows about them this side of an ocean I think. Which is a shame because that means their is nothing any dwarf can do about the Slann deciding to play jig-saw puzzle with continental plates.

The Book of Valaya a tome on ancient dwarf lore mentions them. Teclis says the elves acquired a copy or two during the golden age, when the dwarfs hadn't yet made it so only priestesses were allowed to read them.

So it shouldn't be impossible for Santa to find a loremaster with a copy to read?

Dark as Silver · Jun 1, 2023

snow eternal said:
I mean they kind of do…. If you ingest harmfully substances like plastics they sometimes don't leave the body for years, or how smoking fills your lungs.

Also it's a dwarves magic, not their bodies that we need to question. Or rather the soul/ runesmithing channels. We didnt physically purify gromil to make adamant, so why would we physically purify our body to make an adamant dwarf?

If runesmithing uses these channels as we know it does, then impurities in the channels would impart themselves on the runes.

Please decide if we're talking about biology or souls.
My responses are different either way.

SuperHeavy · Jun 1, 2023

Alratan said:
The Hashut worshippers at Karak Dum managed it to some degree. Snorri smashed a piece of their attempt at replicating a rune.

They also probably had materials from the slain runesmiths from relics to workshops along with abundant time isolated. Unless someone else can pull that extremely specific set of circumstances we are not in danger. In my personal opinion the greatest threat to the secrecy of runesmithing is going to be if we lose a Karak and a magic race can pick over the remains thoroughly.

snow eternal · Jun 1, 2023

Dark as Silver said:
Please decide if we're talking about biology or souls.
My responses are different either way.

Respond to both then? But the latter mostly, once again why would the body matter for the magic?

Dark as Silver · Jun 1, 2023

snow eternal said:
Respond to both then? But the latter mostly, once again why would the body matter for the magic?

Alright then.

I agree, the body shouldn't matter for magic. Therefore its wrong to discuss impurities from a biological perspective. And also biology doesn't work like that anyway.

From a soul perspective its incorrect because Runesmiths aren't able to do what they do because their souls are more 'pure' than normal dwarves. From the description of Brana, runesmiths have conductive 'ore vein' like things running through their souls which other dwarves do no.
It is the impurities in the dwarven soul that allow runesmiths to interact with magic. So cleansing them would leave you with a normal dwarf.

tri2 · Jun 1, 2023

Dark as Silver said:
Alright then.

I agree, the body shouldn't matter for magic. Therefore its wrong to discuss impurities from a biological perspective. And also biology doesn't work like that anyway.

From a soul perspective its incorrect because Runesmiths aren't able to do what they do because their souls are more 'pure' than normal dwarves. From the description of Brana, runesmiths have conductive 'ore vein' like things running through their souls which other dwarves do no.
It is the impurities in the dwarven soul that allow runesmiths to interact with magic. So cleansing them would leave you with a normal dwarf.

The Antithesis of Snorri, the Rune of Gift Taking, one of the most severe punishments besides shaving a dwarves beard, for those of Thugni's line at least, the rune lets you smack The Gift out of a rune capable dwarf

snow eternal · Jun 1, 2023

Dark as Silver said:
From a soul perspective its incorrect because Runesmiths aren't able to do what they do because their souls are more 'pure' than normal dwarves. From the description of Brana, runesmiths have conductive 'ore vein' like things running through their souls which other dwarves do no.

I know that, I've read the same story as you. I specifically mentioned the channels in my prior post for a reason. If the 'ore vein' is more pure or a better ore then the runes might be better. Same with the surrounding stone, the magic still touches that and it might leave impurities if the stone isn't pure.

And again, the body can build up impurities, heavy metals/smoke/ micro plastics. It's just it can usually get the bulk of it out on its own.

One google search dude, and you'll find out that heavy metal poisoning is a thing, same with so many other things that leave harmful substances in the body.

Dark as Silver · Jun 1, 2023

snow eternal said:
I know that, I've read the same story as you. I specifically mentioned the channels in my prior post for a reason. If the 'ore vein' is more pure or a better ore then the runes might be better. Same with the surrounding stone, the magic still touches that and it might leave impurities if the stone isn't pure.

And again, the body can build up impurities, heavy metals/smoke/ micro plastics. It's just it can usually get the bulk of it out on its own.

One google search dude, and you'll find out that heavy metal poisoning is a thing, same with so many other things that leave harmful substances in the body.

Heavy metal poisoning isn't "impurities in the body". Its poison.
The body isn't a pure substance, its made of different things. To me, talking about impurities just sounds like woo, like if you talked about Harmonising Energies or something. We can use specific language.
And you said yourself it shouldn't affect magic so why respond rather than move on?

That ore stuff is a lot of different consternations all wrapped up:
A) What are souls of?
B) Does a more conductive ore exist? If it does, is there a reason it wasn't used either by the Old Ones of Thungni deliberately?
C) How do we alter a dwarves soul deliberately and what are the consequences? Do we even want to given strictures about religiously guarding rune lore, this is possibly the best possible defence.
D) How do runes work? Specifically why is rune magic different from other casting and what made the Thungni and his descendants (and also all the other ancestor gods, but not their descendants) able to craft them?

We don't have the information to answer these, so it seems weird and counterproductive we're jumping to it, when we're already jumping over several consternations, which will probably explain what the actual next steps ought to be..

Alratan · Jun 1, 2023

Dark as Silver said:
B) Does a more conductive ore exist? If it does, is there a reason it wasn't used either by the Old Ones of Thungni deliberately?

Ore is a very suggestive term that implies that there is a pure type of soul stuff that's analogous to metal that is present at a low concentration but can be refined to form that pure form.

Dark as Silver · Jun 1, 2023

Alratan said:
Ore is a very suggestive term that implies that there is a pure type of soul stuff that's analogous to metal that is present at a low concentration but can be refined to form that pure form.

Or it is a metaphorical term for how stuff can be included into a body of rock (the default dwarf soul) without having being divisions or fractures.
Or it is the fact that we were having that discussion in Khazalid, and a different term would have been used if the discussion had been in aneyoquean.

Very is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

DragonParadox · Jun 1, 2023

Alratan said:
Ore is a very suggestive term that implies that there is a pure type of soul stuff that's analogous to metal that is present at a low concentration but can be refined to form that pure form.

Worth keeping in mind that this simile was give to us by relatively young mages of a young tradition. I would want a second opinion from someone at least a thousand years old before I drew any conclusion on the basis of that, you know to be properly dwarfy.

Voikirium · Jun 1, 2023

Rune of Shieldbane: A Rune meant for weapons, it forces the shield or blade out of position during the block, leaving the opponent open to be counterattacked.

A Rune created to deal with those foes whose defenses consist primarily of the block rather than the endure.

#Rune-Ideas

RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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