On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.
Grimnir didn't inscribe his Ancestor Ryne though. He inscribed the Master Rune named after him, which is, as far as I can tell, a regular master rune with none of the special rule-breaking properties of an Ancestor Rune, although it is probably a compressed combo that at some stage of development included at least one of his ancestor rune.
The wackier part of that was we got 2 categories of MGrimnir out of the tablet. So either Snorri big brained a second category when he passively reverse engineered it or Grimnir put down two master runes on a single tablet. And if it was the latter, that's still 2 separate categories of runes on a single tablet, talisman and banner. He also did it in like under a minute when these MRunes tend to take weeks or longer for Snorri. Very much don't think too hard about it territory lol.
They'd legit have to reverse engineer it from first principles, and even then it just wouldn't happen. Thungi was, as most Ancestor Gods, a genius bar none and trying to replicate it without any help that he laid down or his children have built upon is like developing a ninth Wind of Magic.
Grim but didn't inscribe his Ancestor Ryne though. He inscribed the Master Rune named after him, which is, as far as I can tell, a regular master rune with none of the special rule-breaking properties of an Ancestor Rune, although it is probably a compressed combo that at some stage of development included at least one of his ancestor rune.
Here is the simple answer. It's Ancestor BS/"definitely not magic".
Less simple answer. It is a Rune so tied with a "God" and carved by his own hand, with his own Divine Weapon, upon the eve of his final act/doom that he can do whatever the fuck he wants. Even then, it's not a "true" Rune, it's a God writing his name on a stone tablet.
Besides it only glows only when we do Rune shit that involves him and the other Ancestors. It both is and isn't a Rune. It is both simply his mark and something more.
They'd legit have to reverse engineer it from first principles, and even then it just wouldn't happen. Thungi was, as most Ancestor Gods, a genius bar none and trying to replicate it without any help that he laid down or his children have built upon is like developing a ninth Wind of Magic.
there are other BS characters in fantasy in the other races, and thungni only discovered runes after finding the glittering realm, so there is a possibility someone else will discover it as well as create rune from scratch again
there are other BS characters in fantasy in the other races, and thungni only discovered runes after finding the glittering realm, so there is a possibility someone else will discover it as well as create rune from scratch again
the main issue isn't finding the principles of runes.
the issue is that only really a dwarf or the dead has the stamina to actually use the knowledge on its own.
now, they might use the principles of runes in their other works. make wind magic more reliable while still being wind magic. that sort of thing. which is dangerous, but it's not making runes.
Aye, runes as they are require exacting standards that most other races could never accomplish except by those who train to the limit. Plus the Dwarfen body is one of the least magically absorbent kinds, any other would likely be mutated when the winds get trapped in the Rune.
Was unclear?
However to be completely fair, if the Ancestor Gods didn't break every rule that applied to a normal dwarf would they really be Ancestor gods?
"Aye you heard me right Olin, it's a card game that I heard The Gift Giver created centuries ago before he moved up far north, That is why you can find the game down South." Yorra explained "I found out about it when coming back from Patrol with some members of the Hearth Guard."
"Yorra ended up buying a spare deck from those lads and all of here have played it before besides you and Rurik." Explains Otrek drawing a nod from both Yorra and Borri.
"The game can be played with 3 to 4 people but where it really shines like Gomril is when its played with 4." Adds Borri taking a drink from his tankard.
"Well, I don't see any problem playing a few rounds." Rurik says.
"Aye, why not." I agree.
"Excellent." Yorra states with a grin before ordering us another round and handing the deck to Borri to shuffle and deal.
***
"You could not make it more obvious that you are Borri's ally if you tried Olin." Declared Rurik
"Or maybe I was forced to play my queen because some daft fool kept playing the same suit!" I responded
"Bah!"
"Don't 'Bah' me you gremlin!"
***
"Counting it all out it looks like you two failed by about 12 points." Says Yorra.
"I would have won that if my teammate actually had anything of value in their hand." Otrek grumbles taking another swig from his drink.
"HOW IS IT MY FAULT YOU DEALT THE CARDS!" Retorts Borri.
"Aye I did and some fine cards they were."
***
"So, a question for the table, say if some very handsome fellow would happen to have all the Kings in his hand." Rurik begins.
"How can the worst player be so bloody lucky." Bemoans Otrek with his face in his hands.
"What would such a handsome fellow do when he is supposed to call for a king for aid?" Rurik finishes.
"In such a situation you can call for aid from the Queen." Answers Yorra.
"Very good. Thank you Yorra." Rurik says we a satisfied nod. "Now what would such a fellow do if he had all the queens as well?"
"Dodge!" I say
"Dodge. Wait wha." Rurik manages to say before he ducks under my tankard I threw.
***
"Why didn't you play the Beardling earlier Rurik when I played the Living Ancestor?" Yorra questions.
"Well, you hadn't played your king yet, I wasn't sure you were my teammate" responds Rurik.
"Rurik it was painfully obvious that she was your teammate, why do you think she kept letting get her Thanes and Rangers." Borri explains.
"I thought she just had a bad hand." Rurik defends.
"Skill of a drunk blind goat and the luck of the Undaunted." Groans Otrek.
***
"Well Lads was a fun time, but I have to head off for the night." I say getting up from the table. "Well played by everyone besides Rurik."
"Farewell" "Aye later Olin" "Bye" "Bah!"
"Don't 'Bah' me Rurik!"
AN:
The game they are playing here is called French Tarot and its pretty much the same game as in real life with a few differences. Normally there are only 4 suits (ignoring the trumps) of the classic Spades, Hearts, Clubs and Diamonds but here each deck is unique with each suit being stylised off of a hold from the around Karaz Ankor. So, you might have tarot deck that instead of Spades, Hearts, Clubs and Diamonds it would be Drakk, Grom, Krum and Dorden. In universe you can switch out the hold suits without problem which the only rule being no duplicates and only 4 suits in a deck. The trumps in the deck will always be the same but they are of course dwarf themed with the 3 special trumps (Oudlers) normally called Le petite, Le 21 and L'excuse being instead called the bearding, The living ancestor and the matron.
With 4 players the game ends up being 3 v 1 against the person who bids to win but with 5 players the person who bids to win is able to call for a king to help them win and who ever has the king in their starting hands is on their team. So, it becomes 2 v 3 with the ally of the bidder not being confirmed till the called king is played.
So, in the story the players are calling for the help for the aid of the king of Drakk and who has that is on their team. The king is most valuable and strongest non-trump card, but I would like it in universe that for decks with suits from hold with a Queen ruler like Grom the queen and king positions is switched out. It would be really confusing but I feel like its in character with dwarfs.
The strength of these cards from top to bottom is King, Queen, Knight, Jack, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 (Ace).
My head canon as well is that these cards also become like collectibles with the value being based on who made the decks. The game is really old and probable older than Snorri but in the Far North people Claim that the Gift Giver created the game before coming north. All over the Karaz Ankor you would have story of people claiming that it was some legend from their hold that created it. But decks created by Snorri or Karstah ould be valuable, but I also see craftsmen from the far north or all over making Suits of the hold they come from and maybe other cards.
Oudlers
Le petite – The bearding (weakest trump but bonus points if played on the final round)
Le 21 – Living ancestor (Beats everything)
L'excuse – The Matron (can't be taken from who has it and allows to bow out on one round)
l'ecart/le chien = Cache
Kings = Kings
Queens = Queens
Knight = Thane
Jack = Ranger
If anyone that wants to draw art for this story i would love to see a Dwarf version of French Tarot card
; )
Aye, runes as they are require exacting standards that most other races could never accomplish except by those who train to the limit. Plus the Dwarfen body is one of the least magically absorbent kinds, any other would likely be mutated when the winds get trapped in the Rune.
Elves are extraordinarily resistant to mutation, to the degree that they can live in the Chaos Wastes with the personal attention of a Chaos God for millennia and only pick up unusual eye and hair colours. We see much more evidence of magic mutating dwarves (chaos dwarves and petrifying runelords) than we do of it mutating elves, so based on the evidence we have to us, I think we should conclude that dwarves are more susceptible not less.
Elves are extraordinarily resistant to mutation, to the degree that they can live in the Chaos Wastes with the personal attention of a Chaos God for millennia and only pick up unusual eye and hair colours. We see much more evidence of magic mutating dwarves (chaos dwarves and petrifying runelords) than we do of it mutating elves, so based on the evidence we have to us, I think we should conclude that dwarves are more susceptible not less.
I would like it in universe that for decks with suits from hold with a Queen ruler like Grom the queen and king positions is switched out. It would be really confusing but I feel like its in character with dwarfs.
That can be a Deck characteristic to differentiate the various "hold decks". One with a stronger Ranger, and maybe one where the Jack is instead an Engineer for the West. That way, it can be a history lesson if the "strength" is indicated in the card, or a "current knowledge" lesson if it isn't and thus you'd have to argue (and be agreed upon) for it's ranking.
And for their points, instead of the normal conflict (no good to normalize hold v hold fight after all), it's about snazz points, or glory/honor or treasure or whatnot.
We have an example of that IC, where the writer of the elven Alchemy book we have was written by someone who likely got a Chamon mutation locking them into that singular wind and thus being ostracized for it but still managing to raise their status enough due to skill and hard work (mostly post mortem).
That can be a Deck characteristic to differentiate the various "hold decks". One with a stronger Ranger, and maybe one where the Jack is instead an Engineer for the West. That way, it can be a history lesson if the "strength" is indicated in the card, or a "current knowledge" lesson if it isn't and thus you'd have to argue (and be agreed upon) for it's ranking.
Their mindworms would force them to do reverse-powercreep, though, and by the canon age everyone's just glacially throwing poop cards at each other while lamenting the times.
Their mindworms would force them to do reverse-powercreep, though, and by the canon age everyone's just glacially throwing poop cards at each other while lamenting the times.
That can be a Deck characteristic to differentiate the various "hold decks". One with a stronger Ranger, and maybe one where the Jack is instead an Engineer for the West. That way, it can be a history lesson if the "strength" is indicated in the card, or a "current knowledge" lesson if it isn't and thus you'd have to argue (and be agreed upon) for it's ranking.
And for their points, instead of the normal conflict (no good to normalize hold v hold fight after all), it's about snazz points, or glory/honor or treasure or whatnot.
Dwarfs would be the kind of people to have minor changes between hold suits making thing more complicated but in the end the game would stay the same at the base. But if some beardling wants to get life lessons out of a card game then good for them.
The way I envisioned the "lore reason" behind the point system, is less that the holds are fighting against each other and more that they are all part of a massive throng and trying to out do each other.
make it into a journey token, with dwarves that travel more to more holds having a obvious larger collection of cards each with written wisdom on them and more strategies they can use in the game which will easily overcome those with only one available strategy. like pokemon journey gym badges except given by way stations in each hold, a unique hold only card. gives dwarves another reason to use the underway caravans
make it into a journey token, with dwarves that travel more to more holds having a obvious larger collection of cards each with written wisdom on them and more strategies they can use in the game which will easily overcome those with only one available strategy. like pokemon journey gym badges except given by way stations in each hold, a unique hold only card. gives dwarves another reason to use the underway caravans
