On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.
Thanks to @Xepheria for their initial write-up, @BungieONI , @LaggPlaguedDuke and several others who provided input into the development of this system.
The system of researching new Runes has been updated to something that's more fun to interact with I hope. So in short, to create variants of an existing Master Rune you'll have to first understand that Master Rune. The way you can do this is through the traditional Understand a Master Rune option, but now, if you develop a Master Rune from your research, or compress a combo into a Master Rune that will also count as doing the Understand option. After you understand a Master Rune, you can then begin to create variants of that Master Rune, and even a Regular Rune version at a much cheaper cost than before. Of course not all Master Runes are the same, so now we move on to the method I'll be calculating the action cost for these new actions.
Learned Master Runes will have a Complexity Rating attached to them that will appear on the Rune List post and in Rune trades in the future. They start from 0 for "base" Master Runes like the Master Rune of Gromril for instance, and can theoretically go up forever all the way until Azamar. Putting a Master Rune into a combo raises the Complexity Rating, however Compressing a Combo** into a Master Rune does not.
Spitestrike, the precursor combo for the Master Rune of Spite: Complexity 0
Compressing it into Master Rune of Spite: Complexity 0
A combo that involves the Master Rune of Spite: Complexity 1
Compressing that Combo into a new Master Rune: Complexity 1
And so on and so forth.
Relevant Specialty levels, and Traits*, reduce the Effective Complexity, which in turn makes the Understand option easier to do. This basically means a Talismanic (Savant) specialty Runesmith with a lot of traits around researching Talismanic Runes would have a far easier time than an apprentice with no specialty at all.
Specialty levels can reduce effective complexity by 1 (Base) to 4 (Savant)
* A trait description will need to specify that it improves a type of Rune Research, like Master of the Odd, for it to factor in though.
** A combo will have the tags of its constituent Runes in terms of research and trait procs, but the new Master Rune from its compression isn't guaranteed to have those tags however.
Here will be the new actions you'll see in the coming turn as well, probably under their own section by this point.
[ ] [Difficult] Compress a Combo: [Cost: 1 +(2 x Effective Complexity) actions] Unlock the Convert and Simplify Options for the Master Rune. Gain a Master Rune of the same Category as the chosen Combo.
[ ] [Difficult] Understand a Master Rune: [Cost: (4 +4 x Effective Complexity) - Similar Runes actions] Unlock the Convert and Simplify Options for that Master Rune. Gain progress to any associated Research. Risk rises with Complexity.
[ ] [Difficult] Convert a Master Rune: [Cost: 2 actions per Category] Gain a Master Rune of the chosen Category(ies).
[ ] [Difficult] Simplify a Master Rune: [Cost: 2 actions] Gain a Regular Rune for every known Category of the chosen Master Rune.
[ ] [Difficult] Convert a Regular Rune: [Cost: 1 action per Category] Gain a Regular Rune of the chosen Category(ies).
Understand Action Cost = [4 + (4 x (Complexity Rating - Relevant Specialties and Traits)] - (Related Master Runes/2) - (Alternate Variants of Same Master Rune x2)
Compress Action Cost = [1 +2 x (Complexity Rating - Relevant Specialties and Traits)]
Specialty Levels go from 1 (Base) to 4 (Savant)
This formula was edited as of Turn 57 it is now as follows:
Understand Action Cost = 2 + (2 x (Complexity Rating - Specialties)), minimum 1 action
Compress Action Cost = 1 + (2 x (Complexity Rating - Specialties)), minimum 1 actions
Similarly, I've reworded several traits to work with this system and the new Rune list: OLD
Master of the Odd: Every 2 research actions used for Talismanic, Engineering runes or [Bizarre] Runes, add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Research gains from studying odd materials improved. Soul of the Earth: Every 2 research actions used on all minerals, metals or other earthborn things add 1 free action's worth of progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 free actions. Work with all metals will be greatly improved. Mind for Constructs: Every 3 research actions used on all constructs add 1 free action's worth of progress. A deep understanding of Gronti and the mechanics of the Dwarfen form. Peerless Production: Every 2 request actions add 1 free action's worth of progress. If 3 request actions, instead add 3 free actions. Every input request action has a 50% chance to proc another action, does not proc on free actions.
to NEW
Master of the Odd [4/15]: Every 2 research actions used for [Bizarre] Runes and novel phenomena add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Research gains from studying odd and novel materials improved. Mind for Constructs [10/12]: Every 2 research actions used for Engineering and [Construct] Runes add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Every 3 request and research actions used on construct related options add 1 extra progress. Possesses a deep understanding of Gronti and the mechanics of the Dwarfen form. Talent for Talismans [4/15]: Every 2 research actions used for Talismanic Runes add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Soul of the Earth [0/18] : Every 2 research actions used for [Metal] Runes, and all geological material add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Metalworking greatly improved. Peerless Production [9/?]: Every 2 request actions add 1 extra progress. If 3 request actions, instead add 3 extra progress. Every request action has a 50% chance to proc extra progress.
TLDR; spread out the Talismanic and Engineer benefit from Master of the Odd to two other traits. Mind for Constructs now also procs on when you're working on making constructs as well as researching them. Also rewording stuff so that its snappier and less confusing/wordy. That's about it.
Mind for Constructs [10/12]: Every 2 research actions used for Engineering and [Construct] Runes add 1 extra progress. If 3 research actions, instead add 2 extra progress. Every 3 request and research actions used on construct related options add 1 extra progress. Possesses a deep understanding of Gronti and the mechanics of the Dwarfen form.
Since this applies to Engineering Runes, does it work for Reverse Engineering the Master Rune of Thungni [Engineering]? Or, does the type of master rune you're trying to learn not matter at all in this new system?
That is wonderful. Off the top of my head that means we get MPurification understood instantly under this system. Also lul it's complexity 6 that's a big boy rune right there. The 2nd highest rune on the sheet right now is Amplification at 4.
TLDR; spread out the Talismanic and Engineer benefit from Master of the Odd to two other traits. Mind for Constructs now also procs on when you're working on making constructs as well as researching them. Also rewording stuff so that its snappier and less confusing/wordy. That's about it.
That rocks. Anyway, thank you lots for working through this rework. Gonna have to go look at the Rune List in the thread to check the Complexity Ratings.
Yeah sure. I know I said it didn't but the old system has been so thoroughly broken apart I think its okay? Whatever horror comes down on my head from it will be my cross to bear I suppose.
Yeah sure. I know I said it didn't but the old system has been so thoroughly broken apart I think its okay? Whatever horror comes down on my head from it will be my cross to bear I suppose.
also, @LaggPlaguedDuke asked on Discord if your actions for Purification get refunded.
Yes, they do, so after I update the Rune list I'll add in the variants you've unlocked. I think you got them all? If you've spilled over I'll just store that away.
also, @LaggPlaguedDuke asked on Discord if your actions for Purification get refunded.
Yes, they do, so after I update the Rune list I'll add in the variants you've unlocked. I think you got them all? If you've spilled over I'll just store that away.
That rocks. Anyway, thank you lots for working through this rework. Gonna have to go look at the Rune List in the thread to check the Complexity Ratings.
If I'm understanding this right, it'll procc Odd, Talismans and Metal so 3 actions becomes 3 + 2 Odd + 2 Talisman + 2 metal = 9? Wut so that's be done next turn if we wanted.
If I'm understanding this right, it'll procc Odd, Talismans and Metal so 3 actions becomes 3 + 2 Odd + 2 Talisman + 2 metal = 9? Wut so that's be done next turn if we wanted.
I want to see Structural Purification so we can do a Structural Adamant Maker. Ten instead of nine is a whatever in comparison, because more freaking adamant and Rune Metal progress to boot.
If I'm understanding this right, it'll procc Odd, Talismans and Metal so 3 actions becomes 3 + 2 Odd + 2 Talisman + 2 metal = 9? Wut so that's be done next turn if we wanted.
I want to see Structural Purification so we can do a Structural Adamant Maker. Ten instead of nine is a whatever in comparison, because more freaking adamant and Rune Metal progress to boot.
Which means more progress for our traits for anything related to metals and minerals for us, and a bigger amount of time for us to one-shot all of the Albion stuff we already have. Which means, we can keep more stuff that we can get from the War with the Fimir on turn 55.
Our mountainsoul banner is going to be prety easy to do now as well, but more importantly MGrungni is T0 meaning a World that Was banner is legit potentially only a 2-3 turns more than that away.
Peerless Production: Every 2 request actions add 1 free action's worth of progress. If 3 request actions, instead add 3 free actions. Every input request action has a 50% chance to proc another action, does not proc on free actions.
to NEW
Peerless Production [9/?]: Every 2 request actions add 1 extra progress. If 3 request actions, instead add 3 extra progress. Every request action has a 50% chance to proc extra progress.
I feel like what I'm seeing here can't possibly be true, yet I so desperately want it to be. Because if this is right. That 50% chance of an extra action? It now applies infinitely to extra actions. Which means if we are lucky enough we could theoretically complete ANY request in one go.
