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Discord.

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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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He both feels and hears the hum of his amulet before it pulses once more, flooding him with a surge of power that bubbles and courses through his body, from the tips of his moustache to the depths of his bones. The currents of power flow and separate, going to where they were most needed, restoring flagging vigour and dulling the ache of sore muscles. Invigorated, he throws Thundercutter skywards, his axe cuts through the air with unnatural ease, while its arc has it beheading a swooping harpy with ease. The weapon continues its journey, through the creature's neck as if it weren't there, following the path of his initial toss, but with a simple flex of his hand, the axehead tilts ever so slightly to alter its course such that it circles back around, slicing through yet more foes as it does so, where he can effortlessly grab it by the handle as it whizzes by him.

Vragni can feel his anger build, and in a semi-futile bid to keep it in check he tosses Thundercutter skyward once more, watching as it flies true and lodges itself into the neck of a manticore. With another flex, the blade wrenches itself free in a shower of lifeblood and returns to its master's hand.
We also know from part four that one of the runes on Thundercutter is a rune that Vragni can cast lightning of - but the axe's primary behavior is indicative of my interpretation of the Master Rune of Flight.
 
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We also know from part four that one of the runes on Thundercutter is a rune that Vragni can cast lightning of - but the axe's primary behavior is indicative of my interpretation of the Master Rune of Flight.
I think the problem is
the axehead tilts ever so slightly to alter its course such that it circles back around,
So thats actually significantly short of proven airborne mobility compared to what Luftwaffles was looking for because Yondu's arrow can turn on a dime and laughs at the idea of being constrained to an arc.
Theres a reason I included the video.
The Rune of flight goes out, and it comes back. And theres a little wiggle room around that but not nearly enough to match the arrow.
 
That makes it easy then. Use Impact and Accuracy - plus momentum, which you need to maintain after every strike, and because you need to be able to manipulate momentum to get sharp directional shifts. And plus maneuverability, because being able to change the orientation will help change momentum.

Probably an iterative step, but its possible it also solves it entirely.
 
[Canon] The Pleasurebane Comes, Kazrik Pleasurebane visits the Citadel of Creation
The Pleasurebane Comes

The Citadel looms large, traditional gates of stone etched with gold and jewels guarding its entrance in the Underway from any intruders. That is not the only defense, but it is a righteous one, each rising five-dwarfs high, and whatever it lacks in the simplicity of its materials the breadth of knowledge the shaper, the maker, the creator knows no doubt allowing it to stand head and shoulders above another work, perhaps of better material but lower in knowledge.

A steel hammer with a Master Rune of Conduction will always surpass a gromril ax with a Rune of Cleaving, after all.

The gates grind open, and out steps the very man of the hour.

Vragni Silverbrand.

He nods to you, his gromril slightly jingling, and then turns his back, gesturing for you to follow. The carts of reagents you've acquired, gained over a long, long life trundle behind you.
--
The Halls are huge and ring with the sound of hammers on gromril, the roar of furnaces and the rhythm of chants. Statues of Ancestors and Runelords, legends one and all, line the halls, made in precise, meticulous detail, representing them as they were; or are, perhaps, in some cases. Tile mosaics line the ceilings themselves, while good, solid stone polished and decorated with the mundane carvings of Runes, more than a few of which you invented (and he refined, do not let yourself forget that, do not shame the boy in that way any more than you already did).

You pause as you make eye contact with Master Yorren, before shaking your head.

He'd be so disappointed.

What has Kazrik the Magnanimous, Kazrik the Wise, Kazrik Goodfather come to?

Kazrik Pleasurebane.

But the work continues.

And it will continue, until you can feel that greasy, slimy abomination's blood flowing over your hands. All else pales to that.

Aye, the Citadel is beautiful, but more than that, you can feel it.

A place fit for Runes. A place fit to create.

One of the apprentices from Vragni's cloud of Beardlings appears and gives a slight bow at the waist, directing you to the reason you turned to Vragni, rather than putting your fullness behind the Brilliant Hall or even moreso, Khazagar.

It certainly isn't because you give a damn for Vragni's rivalry with Klausson. You have your opinions, of course, but they pale in comparison to the work he's done: if he wants to pin his legacy on wise men holding Kazaghar until the end of time, bully for him. At worst he is a fool, not a would-be tyrant.

And the world has endured worse foolishness than anything Klausson can do.

But you have no interest in Kazaghar, either. Mild curiosity, at best. And that mild curiosity pales in comparison to what you know you can do, in this place crafted by worthy hands.

Khazagar is a repository of Runelore, but Runelore does not need deposited.

It needs used.

And there is nowhere better to do that, here and now, than here.

You are interrupted in your ruminations by the apprentice opening the door to a forge.

As expected, it is beautiful, if simple. A furnace, an anvil, and a vast shelf of reagents, prepared as you asked. You look to the apprentice, and nod. "Thank you, beardling. Bring my thanks to your master. But please...leave me." The beardling bows at the waist and parts, leaving you alone with an empty room, only waiting to create.

The anvil catches your eye. Shaped to look like Smednir, Thungni, and Grungni are holding it aloft, looking at you, judging you. The motto of the institution is embossed on the purified gromril in gold.

Your mind is your obstacle.

You hold Gomrund's body in your arms, and the world is fuzzy in your sight. It's shameful, that you weep when you weren't even harmed. No, not you.

Your son. The boy you swore to protect, the boy you swore to teach, the boy your swore to care for, bloody and bruised and
broken at the edge of your hammer, only his ability--Greater than you were at that age, to be sure--having kept him alive even as you, you were puppeted by Slaanesh, your own mind deceived, lied to, and turned to turning your son into a pulp.

Your son, who looks up at you with delicate eyes. His beard, red and ragged with his blood, hanging limply from his jaw. Wheezing as he breathes, choking as he tries to force air out. "Not your fault, father."

"Isn't that touching? But shouldn't you be angrier, Gomrund? Why that--"

You wing his ax at the daemon and cleave its head from its shoulders, even as you rise up. All your amulets, your rings, your clasps, burn as your mind realizes what's been done to you, as you realize you have been
lied to, and turned into a weapon to harm your own son.

The next minutes are a blur. Things only really clear up when the Valayans manage to get in, and find him, bleeding.

Bleeding...but alive. Ancestors be praised, alive.

Your shame is not that great.

A part of you wishes it had been after the Slayers arose, so you did not need to live with the shame. The guilt. That you could merely have shaved your head and marched to a valiant Doom.

The other part only just continues to pour itself into the oath you could make, did make, and have followed through on--


The furnace steams, the great bowl of fire held aloft by Grimnir, Valaya and Gazul letting you know that it is finished and ready to be pulled free. Plunging the tongs in, you pull out the ingot and begin to pound it immediately, no sense in wasting time was there? An ax, always a need for an ax.

--to spite Slaanesh until you can see the abomination's heart, or until you finally join Harroka in the Underearth. Assuming your wife will let you, anyway.

Hm, Smiting, Blazes, Gazul's Flames? Ancestors know, you've got plenty of Reagents to really make it hurt.
 
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My alternate suggestion would be MFlight, Accuracy, Breezes.
Accuracy uses the wind (of magic? a magical wind?) to target and aim the weapon, Breezes creates a strong wind for Accuracy, and equally importantly it allows it to occur on command (verbal not mental). The effect synergy is about as good as I think you can get with Flight which I consider a pretty tricky rune to nicely combo. Breezes has previously comboed with Flight in order to make Rangerstrike, and I've already expressed the accuracy relation. As a sentence combo I think its actually really damn good, "fly true like the wind" or something like that.
And of course, if it combos then on compression it does open up that Rune of Direction avenue.
The Rune of Accuracy might even get upgraded if we finish the Extra-sensory Research. Like imagine if instead of using all 8 Winds of Magic to guide projectiles it focuses more on using Azyr and its fatehaxx.
 
Khazagar is a repository of Runelore, but Runelore does not need deposited.

It needs used.
Hmm, I wonder if that's the impression Khazagar gives? That's it's a big repo for runes. Has the dawi visited Khazagar yet?

Makes me think if we as the players using meta knowledge planning things out in anticipation of the great loss in Runesmiths in the future might have impacted how things are viewed in story.

Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.
 
Hmm, I wonder if that's the impression Khazagar gives? That's it's a big repo for runes. Has the dawi visited Khazagar yet?

Makes me think if we as the players using meta knowledge planning things out in anticipation of the great loss in Runesmiths in the future might have impacted how things are viewed in story.

Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.

Anyone seeing it as primarily a repository is a fool beardling in need of further tempering by their masters.

Khazagar was meant to spread knowledge of Runes, that they may be USED MORE. Not to mention, increasing the chances of new runes being created.

And what's this nonsense about Runesmiths decreasing in number!? As if such a travesty could ever settle upon the Karaz Ankor. Bah!

:V
 
Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.
Mostly just attrition over thousands of years, plus all the runesmiths being secretive and sometime getting killed by orks before they could teach any apprentices.
 
Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.
Attrition. Without the proper time to teach students, they became less and less worthy of learning high-end runes. This means less worthy replacements and lower quality of Smiths around. This slowly but surely meant that the Ranks of the Runelords are less filled, or filled with the less worthy, or the worthy but with less teaching and less time to experiment and rediscover than to spend time repairing all they can.
 
Hmm, I wonder if that's the impression Khazagar gives? That's it's a big repo for runes. Has the dawi visited Khazagar yet?

Makes me think if we as the players using meta knowledge planning things out in anticipation of the great loss in Runesmiths in the future might have impacted how things are viewed in story.

Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.
by them being in the front lines of several thousand year long wars, especially the dwarf elf war which caused the death of most the best of the elf mages as well. Also probably one of the biggest societal failures of the dwarf culture is that they consistently feel like they can never surpass those who came before them, while some of that is true in that the environment makes it increasingly difficult (less resources, more fights, less time to experiment) alot of the time they just don't try in surpassing them as they consider it heresy.

Dwarfs who try new things/surpassing their predecessors are considered radical, a new thing being perhaps trying a slightly different type of flour in baking bread that their great great great grandmother used.

Snorri is unusual in that he not only is a radical master runelord but that he is being successful at it. the runelords that call us odd is them being polite in saying they think we are insane and will cause naught but disaster.
 
Snorri is unusual in that he not only is a radical master runelord but that he is being successful at it. the runelords that call us odd is them being polite in saying they think we are insane and will cause naught but disaster.
To be fair, with a Master like Yorri and his whirlwind training most Master Runesmiths and probably all the lords probably thought he couldn't possibly come out remotely normal (read: conservative). The fact that Snorri came out of this as a successful Master much less Lord is probably baffling to most. Snorri is so radical that he comes right back round to being conservative...and then the quest happens and he's straight over the edge again.

Edit: To compound on the Attrition thing. Remember how Klausson is the Eldest Runelord in the North, remember how long it took to just fill up the numbers again? 2 conclaves. On top of that image if we weren't actively preventing the North from being cut off or spreading around Rune Lore like our life depended on it or actively trying to get the Dawi used to the idea of Allies. We'd be so focused on putting out fires we'd have no time for anything else.

Edit2: Also also! The Eastern Dawves aren't Chaos so we still have like 20% more base pop than before so Karaz Ankor has more heft than canon.
 
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Hmm, I wonder if that's the impression Khazagar gives? That's it's a big repo for runes. Has the dawi visited Khazagar yet?

Makes me think if we as the players using meta knowledge planning things out in anticipation of the great loss in Runesmiths in the future might have impacted how things are viewed in story.

Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.
Everyone above largely covered it, but here's some more specifics.

In order of occurrence: the War of Vengeance, the earthquakes of the Time of Woes, and then the Goblin Wars that followed. That triple whammy lands inside of ~750 years, and is the initial series of cataclysms. Then Karag Dron erupts.

After Dron erupts the Time of Woes continues for another ~1140 years or so. At some point a Dragon also attacks Thunder Mountain, killing Kurgaz and preventing further creation of Anvils of Doom. The Dragon probably rolls in around the time Karak Azgal falls to Orcs and then a Dragon, since Dron is not too far away from Karak Azgal.

Runesmiths do not have a high replacement rate and Runesmith lore is even harder to replace. So once a downward spiral starts its extremely hard to correct and trying to correct it during an Age like the Time of Woes is kinda futile.
 
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In order of occurrence: the War of Vengeance, the earthquakes of the Time of Woes, and then the Goblin Wars that followed. That triple whammy lands inside of ~750 years, was the initial series of cataclysms. Then Karag Dron erupts.

After Dron erupts the Time of Woes continues for another ~1140 years or so. At some point a Dragon also attacks Thunder Mountain, killing Kurgaz and preventing further creation of Anvils of Doom. The Dragon probably rolls in around the time Karak Azgal falls to Orcs and then a Dragon, since Dron is not too far away from Karak Azgal.

Runesmiths do not have a high replacement rate and Runesmith lore is even harder to replace. So once a downward spiral starts its extremely hard to correct and trying to correct it during an Age like the Time of Woes is kinda futile.
And the Skaven also hits. Can't forget those rat bastards.
 
Keep in mind, in terms of Runelore, that the Dwarves went from having basically no need to use any wood, coal, or other fuels to light their homes to having no idea how to make the basic Light Rune that we spent an action on as a necessity on when founding Drakk.
 
That makes it easy then. Use Impact and Accuracy - plus momentum, which you need to maintain after every strike, and because you need to be able to manipulate momentum to get sharp directional shifts. And plus maneuverability, because being able to change the orientation will help change momentum.

Probably an iterative step, but its possible it also solves it entirely.
Momentum and Inertia are the same thing, you can't add momemtum without making it harder to change direction.
Impact seems to me that it belongs in a combo that is meant to bulldoze things in a straight line then come back... Which seems to be what it does in Raptorstrike getting more powerful the further it goes.
Theres are two clear moments that I think Impact could apply that are equivilant to a charge, the moment that its thrown and the moment its called back. However the rune description is pretty sparse on mentioning these
Weapons cannot be lost, and can be thrown at the enemy as if launched from a bolt thrower
which leads me to think, Vragni already has some other rune providing them or they're a pretty minor consideration to the Rune that didn't bear mentioning.

I'm not going to disagree its probably iterative. However given a master runes tendancy to control a combo I think it'd be easier to add power to a direction rather than trying to direct an overwhelming power.
The Rune of Accuracy might even get upgraded if we finish the Extra-sensory Research. Like imagine if instead of using all 8 Winds of Magic to guide projectiles it focuses more on using Azyr and its fatehaxx.
You're doing that thing again where you make wild extrapolations based on the most optimistic possible reading.
 
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Actually, how did all of Runelords get offed in canon? With the large amount of them we see in this age, I'm sorta worried what sort of cumulative disaster can cause such a loss of powerful beings.

Basically this quest implies a few reasons.

1) there's massive high danger enemies that have to be fought.
2) The Runesmith conservative tendencies (due to lack of Thungni examples to follow) can hit a Traditional Is Best spiral that slows down or prevents adaptation to current problems.
2.a) there's no Runesmith authority figure to force adaptation where needed. Which makes the conservative tendencies spiral real bad.
3) Runesmith don't prepare properly for their incapacitation or demise. Which means their best and more powerful runes are lost if they don't get lucky and be surpassed by their apprentices within a "short "period of time. .
 
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