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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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BungieONI said:
Funny you mention that, there has actually been discussion on the discord to use KKR to make Adamant chainmail for Snorri to go on under BA.
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Snorri: Behold! The Adamant Chainforger!

Runesmiths: For fuck's sake! How many times are you going to make us travel all the way up North to learn how to make this thing? This had better be the last.

Snorri: *already making blueprints for the Glimril Chainforger* ...yeah, sure. Definitely...
 
Boodlesnoop said:
Snorri: Behold! The Adamant Chainforger!

Runesmiths: For fuck's sake! How many times are you going to make us travel all the way up North to learn how to make this thing? This had better be the last.

Snorri: *already making blueprints for the Glimril Chainforger* ...yeah, sure. Definitely...
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Its unfortunate that an adamant chainforger is almost certainly impossible. If we try for it its back into the hell room and using our knee as an anvil.
 
LaggPlaguedDuke said:
Albion humans have produced items equal in quality to elf/dwarf work in quest and we're likely to meet them first. They have Old One lore and likely live longer than normal humans so if they're the standard that dwarfs measure the rest of humanity with, well it's going to be a bit awkward when the Nehekarens finally figure out agriculture. They'll probably be much less dismissive as well since they know humans can actually produce quality goods despite their shorter lifespans.
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I've looked around and haven't been able to find any real mention of Albion humans living longer/being better than 'normal' ones.

And as for Nehekhara, while the timeline is a little wonky from what I can tell they should currently be an impressive civilization blessed/taught by their gods (though Settra hasn't been born yet).
 
jwolfe_beta said:
I've looked around and haven't been able to find any real mention of Albion humans living longer/being better than 'normal' ones.

And as for Nehekhara, while the timeline is a little wonky from what I can tell they should currently be an impressive civilization blessed/taught by their gods (though Settra hasn't been born yet).
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I need to go to the Dwarf timeline for this but we're currently at 4050 years before Sigmar right now and so got about a thousand years until Nehekara develops. There's a pretty solid timeline on Lexicanum for the dwarves here.

Dwarf Timeline - Warhammer - The Old World - Lexicanum

whfb.lexicanum.com whfb.lexicanum.com

You can also find a general timeline there, and if you look at it you'll find that round the time of the Ogre Migration is when Khemri in Nehek comes into being.
 
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BungieONI said:
I need to go to the Dwarf timeline for this but we're currently at 4050 years before Sigmar right now and so got about a thousand years until Nehekara develops.
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-Double checks-
Present date in quest is 472 A.P which is....huh.

Apparently according to the timeline you linked the Chaos dwarfs shouldn't have started worshiping Hashut for another centure or so.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
-Double checks-
Present date in quest is 472 A.P which is....huh.

Apparently according to the timeline you linked the Chaos dwarfs shouldn't have started worshiping Hashut for another centure or so.
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I mean, there's a difference between a grassroots religious movement scattered about with a few successful takeovers, and wisespread worship amongst the Eastern Dwarfs.
 
OhNoMySanitea said:
I mean, there's a difference between a grassroots religious movement scattered about with a few successful takeovers, and wisespread worship amongst the Eastern Dwarfs.
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The line is this:
c.-3900, (500-600)Dwarfs in Zorn Uzkull turn to Hashut and become Chaos Dwarfs.
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Hard to say if this is 'the last of the loyalists are killed' or 'worship of Hashut starts happening openly'. The latter would be more or less what we encountered in Karag Dum.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
The line is this:

Hard to say if this is 'the last of the loyalists are killed' or 'worship of Hashut starts happening openly'. The latter would be more or less what we encountered in Karag Dum.
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Well the Zorn Uzkul is the totality of the Eastern Dwarf territory, all that space. There were more holds than just Karag Dum. That part of the timeline could refer to when the Chaos Dwarfs took over the Zorn Uzkul in its entirety, which got stopped early. Maybe not, but it works to reconcile that timeline with the story a bit.
 
Dark as Silver said:
We've barely done commissions since then, although given the length of time its still a fair few. However if Snorri heard about people melting down his work to reclaim the Adamant that might be the start of a grudge. Its not the same thing.

E:

Oh I've only just actually double checked what you said.

Dawi is resistance against things that affect our mental state. Unless getting upset because we keep getting tripped up by illusions counts it actually would only be secondarily effective against that Meargh as confusion spells didn't seem like her preferred choice.
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Resistance Towards outside factors affecting the mind, and buffs when courage is high.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
The line is this:

Hard to say if this is 'the last of the loyalists are killed' or 'worship of Hashut starts happening openly'. The latter would be more or less what we encountered in Karag Dum.
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OhNoMySanitea said:
Well the Zorn Uzkul is the totality of the Eastern Dwarf territory, all that space. There were more holds than just Karag Dum. That part of the timeline could refer to when the Chaos Dwarfs took over the Zorn Uzkul in its entirety, which got stopped early. Maybe not, but it works to reconcile that timeline with the story a bit.
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I think that the time getting wonky around Karag Dum was what was happening for all the Eastern Dwarfs, which might explain the odd timeline. Which might suggest that that is why Gazul can show us how to burn the Tapestry of Fate, because Hashut could manipulate time and killing him gave Gazul a new ability.
 
jwolfe_beta said:
-Double checks-
Present date in quest is 472 A.P which is....huh.

Apparently according to the timeline you linked the Chaos dwarfs shouldn't have started worshiping Hashut for another centure or so.
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The Chaos Dwarf part of the timeline is one of the wonkiest. But that is down to edition and wonky writer shenaniganry. It isn't even mentioned with a fig leaf of "Time was strange" tbh, its just like that. In this quest's case Soul had to adapt and make the fall to Hashut make sense by putting it contemporaneous with the Incursion.
 
Evillevi said:
Resistance Towards outside factors affecting the mind, and buffs when courage is high.
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Yes exactly, she didn't evade Snorri by reducing his courage or influencing his mind.
She beat him with invisibility, illusions and running away real fast.
soulcake said:
​
A Grudge!

A Grudge upon that Meargh and a Grudge upon perfidious Ulgu!

The Wazzok got away! She had gotten away!

And she'd done it after tricking you one more time to rub some salt into that wound.

Not only was the staff a fake, but the other sorcerers were as well! Nothing but the clothes on her back and that blasted mass of gobbledy-gook she called a sword was actually real! And! Just as you had broken that damned sword into nothing but shards of fading shadow along with that hag's arm, the Meargh's infuriating plan came to its conclusion. You found yourself grabbed from all directions by several dozen shadowy limbs and appendages, overwhelming Mhorni and the rate at which you could dispel them. Having been immobilized, you could only roar in anger when, what you could only describe as a yawning maw of fog, appeared to swallow her whole.
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A question about the Master Rune of Flight. Since it presumably has integrated targeting functions that allows weapons engraved with it to accurately target and return to the user's hands, can we use the Rune of Direction to modify the targeting parameters and have the weapon "return" directly into an enemy's face?
 
Luftwaffles27 said:
A question about the Master Rune of Flight. Since it presumably has integrated targeting functions that allows weapons engraved with it to accurately target and return to the user's hands, can we use the Rune of Direction to modify the targeting parameters and have the weapon "return" directly into an enemy's face?
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Dunno, but probably not as that would make it extremely difficult to retrieve.
Article:
Strictures
All runesmiths must abide by the following strictures:
  • Never allow a rune-weapon to fall into the hands of any Dwarf enemy, even if it must be lost or destroyed.[1b]

And so it'd either have to have a seperate return function or it would have to destroy itself. Otherwise theres too much risk of it being stolen.
The return doesn't sound impossible to me, but its probably a more developed version of MFlight, self destruct would be too much work wasted for the value it took unless this was something like the bolt to kill Kholek.

how would you distinguish the returning variant from a normal MFlight with a lot of accuracy Runes?
 
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Luftwaffles27 said:
A question about the Master Rune of Flight. Since it presumably has integrated targeting functions that allows weapons engraved with it to accurately target and return to the user's hands, can we use the Rune of Direction to modify the targeting parameters and have the weapon "return" directly into an enemy's face?
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Snorri has a rune of chain lightning which targets multiple opponents sequentially. Maybe a combo with those two?
 
Dark as Silver said:
Dunno, but probably not as that would make it extremely difficult to retrieve.
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The user could always just restore the targeting parameters back to default or, failing that, have the weapon "return" somewhere close to them.

Now that I think about it, there might also be a mental component already integrated in the MRune that lets the user control when the weapon will return to them.

IronFist said:
Snorri has a rune of chain lightning which targets multiple opponents sequentially. Maybe a combo with those two?
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I was trying to think of a way to make Yondu's Arrow, so I'd probably choose the Rune of Penetrating for the third rune.
 
Luftwaffles27 said:
The user could always just restore the targeting parameters back to default or, failing that, have the weapon "return" somewhere close to them.
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Yeah see, you're no longer talking about the Rune of Flight, you're now talking about some Cultivator story Flying sword.
Luftwaffles27 said:
Yondu's Arrow
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yeah or that.

And the thing is this whole logic train is based on "assuming this thing works this way" and then takes for granted that every step in the plan will work as required. Like, direction doesn't give telepathic control and I think its pretty optimistic that a whistle or a flight path could be directed.
I think it also might have had a pretty short range but don't have a source on that and it might have been in the context of continent spanning communication devices which would be pretty acceptable on a battlefield.

Now I don't think the Yondu's arrow design is impossible to achieve however I think it is a full combo possibly including an improved MFlight. Not just a two rune pair.
 
Luftwaffles27 said:
A question about the Master Rune of Flight. Since it presumably has integrated targeting functions that allows weapons engraved with it to accurately target and return to the user's hands, can we use the Rune of Direction to modify the targeting parameters and have the weapon "return" directly into an enemy's face?
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All Direction does is turn runes that require a verbal command into a thought command. Instead a better option is improving the sharpness of the weapon and its force. That will help it go through or keep momentum after striking enemies and keep flying until you want it to return.

So Runes of Cleaving, Penetrating, using the Master Rune of Raptorstrike instead of Flight as a basis, Speed perhaps, Rune of Force, Rune of Impact.
 
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BungieONI said:
All Direction does is turn runes that require a verbal command into a thought command. Instead a better option is improving the sharpness of the weapon and its force. That will help it go through or keep momentum after striking enemies and keep flying until you want it to return.

So Runes of Cleaving, Penetrating, using the Master Rune of Raptorstrike instead of Flight as a basis, Speed perhaps, Rune of Force, Rune of Impact.
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I kinda disagree, power and distance is the lesser concern for what luftwaffles wants

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyxvDUAwE_4
while being a herokiller in power would be nice, ultimately I think its an acceptable sacrfice in order to get the change in direction needed for the flying weapon to seek out new targets.

Raptorstrike doesn't exist yet so it would also require us to compress and understand it into a different form. So I don't want to depend this combo on it, however, the distance traveled effect would probably be hard to beat as a straight up improvement. If it just gets better the further it travels while on a ever redirecting trajectory I think its just setting up an infinite power meme.

My alternate suggestion would be MFlight, Accuracy, Breezes.
Accuracy uses the wind (of magic? a magical wind?) to target and aim the weapon, Breezes creates a strong wind for Accuracy, and equally importantly it allows it to occur on command (verbal not mental). The effect synergy is about as good as I think you can get with Flight which I consider a pretty tricky rune to nicely combo. Breezes has previously comboed with Flight in order to make Rangerstrike, and I've already expressed the accuracy relation. As a sentence combo I think its actually really damn good, "fly true like the wind" or something like that.
And of course, if it combos then on compression it does open up that Rune of Direction avenue.

I do think your suggestion has good combo potential, Accuracy Penetrating previously comboed on Rangerstrike so maybe add Accuracy to the list of potential alternates. I just don't think it meets the design idea.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
while being a herokiller in power would be nice, ultimately I think its an acceptable sacrfice in order to get the change in direction needed for the flying weapon to seek out new targets.
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The Master Rune of Flight can already do this, see Vragni using a Master Rune of Flight axe to cut down multiple targets during the Fimir Ambush at the start of turn 47 IIRC. He's griping about Snorri's storm at the time.

That's why I suggested power, penetration, and momentum (rune of impact) - you can already control direction to a large degree.
 
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