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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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Evillevi said:
So very specifically I try to avoid saying that Snorri would be a Guildmaster but rather , hmmm, I meant like Apprentice chain and guild hall with respects to teh influence that it has as opposed to a strict hierarchy. Vragni's stated goal went something like "curtail the undoubtable influence the former's building will exert on the culture and preconceptions of the Northern Runesmiths".

In that sense like Vragni's own apprentices who copy or mimic some parts of his mannerism/likes/dislikes , I think Vragni's critque is a form of projection that an unrestrained Snorri would gain the flaws of Vragni's system without the safeguards that Vragni has.

Furthermore we don't need to replace the role of master in a Rune-smith's life, we just need to be the second biggest thing in it. This can even apply (if more slowly) to masters as our system doesn't make much of a distinction to the role of Journeyman/Master outside of the min required skill to learn X.

Do this over enough generations and you'll have some portion of the Snorrists just defering to or outright copying Snorri because each successive generation would have historical precedence in the Master/Apprentice chain where the second biggest influence is Snorri.
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I don't really know where to go from here. I've never denied influence, or soft power. I think I've recognised it from the beginning. My point has always been that that Guildmaster represents a significantly higher bar of formalised legally enforced power, that "Just think of what my college professor would think of that" cannot meet.
If we want to go as far as second biggest influence, Snorri has probably met that bar for as long as he's been the Oldest Runelord in the North. We said it to Brynna, when we first met, for a long time we had no peers
soulcake said:
"Better then to leave it to our betters then no? Lest we damn the beardlings and lead them down a dark and improper course of action. Lest you believe yourself above the Ancestors," she replies, not with hostility, but with a questioning lilt.

You very nearly spit out your bread. A part of you is ready to berate her for believing you had such hubris before you realize the miscommunication and stop yourself. The specific context that she was using "Ancestors" for wasn't reserved solely for the seven dwarfs most folk think of. In Zorn, that term literally encompassed every Ancestor, from personal, to the famous figures of a Clan's history, as well as the Seven Ancestors.

"I have no issue with such a decision. Though given the state of the north, need I remind you that I don't have any betters close enough to offer their wisdom?" you ask after collecting yourself.

You are alone.
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and the situation isn't as dramatic anymore (possibly why the north got as many runelords as it did was to make sure there were plenty of second choices), however still the closest thing we currently have currently are several centuries younger. Snorri was the default second influence for a long time before Khazagar.
Evillevi said:
This is more like a future conjecture rather then the current state of being. As in in the future, we could at some personally run a boot camp like the OG prothethics but this time for windsight or Durin's consternation or etc
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When you say "boot camp like", what do you mean? Because I expect we'd very much like to run a "Heres a new field of runecraft I discovered: Akazit" as soon as we've actually done that branch.
However Boot Camp is a terrible word choice for anything we've done before because a boot camp is not optional and that would cross every important distinction we could make about not being a guild master.

Evillevi said:
10 years to learn and get good at a single Rune/Rune Combo/etc. Not 10 years in making an item.
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At this rate journeymen would only know like 10 runes... 30 if you are thinking of combos.
Snorri knows hundreds of Runes, Vragni knows thousands. Which wouldn't be possible given their ages.
My point was your timeline was way off.
 
Runesmiths take years on single runes, but also can churn out hundreds in a matter of months or years. So I would assume that Snorri simply takes a lot more time crafting the higher tier items so they last much longer (and partly because he's also engraving a lot more of the artistic details into them because proper works given to thanes and kings needs equal levels of care given to every aspect of their construction). So he can do a runic item quickly, but the longer he takes on it, the better the end result is.
 
"Runes" is always a fluidly defined thing.

Vragni's thousand rune library is mostly variations of a thing. And all runesmiths have that library too, it's just that nobody (or not many) uses it like Vragni does. An example of this is all the dead ends that research leads us to that we seek out to make sure the lowest hanging fruits are indeed closed off first. We keep the results in our mind vaults, but as dead ends, it's not counted in our rune list library because it is hyper specific or inefficient or inelegant or some other combination of potentially many flaws (like a rune compass that points 3 degrees from the North or south or some other direction as an example I remember soulcake making about Vragni). A concrete example of this "rune we know that isn't part of our rune library that isn't just for comfort/fluff thing" actually used in story is that one "failed" rune that was discovered in Snorri's youth that was eventually remembered and then repurposed to be part of our Adamant Maker.
 
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So at anyrate onto something more forward looking an interesting outcome with the current setup is that if we/Snerra took on the title of Thungni's Heir, it'll set up a future situation where Northern Dawi become a Rune focus civilization while the traditional dawi empire become an Engineering hub post Frog Shattering Continent.

Largely because Northern Rune Guild has an actual line of Dawi capable of taking up the position of Guild Master and the authority to enact changes while the Karaz Angkor will repeat the current struggles of finding a line of Dawi to take over the role of Thungni's Heir.

It's also an interesting thought in that for Snorri specifically to be endorsed by Thungni would mean that THungni does approve of Snorri's envelope pushing .



Dark as Silver said:
I don't really know where to go from here.
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Honestly I think we're talking past one another given that to me we seem to have different interpretations of words and the subtext we read from said words.

I've quoted the rest of my response because it's not really important in the grand scheme of things but if you want to have a go at it feel free.
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Dark as Silver said:
At this rate journeymen would only know like 10 runes... 30 if you are thinking of combos.
Snorri knows hundreds of Runes, Vragni knows thousands. Which wouldn't be possible given their ages.
My point was your timeline was way off.
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I think we're talking past one another. My argument primarily is on the idea that Snorri would spend time teaching high valued/difficult Rune stuff as opposed to the otherwise normal things that Journeyman/Masters would find in the normal course of Life. So something gamechanging like Prothethics some 15 turns ago , Breaking the Rule of Three, Windsight and Snorri's solution (to durins consternation), etc.

The kinda things that would attract people to the Khazagar inspite of the distance and dangers involved. And also items that are likely to self propogate if too many Dawi reteach it without removing the context of Snorri's contribution.

Granted you're quite correct that the timeline would be in the hundreds of turn before we see any detectable change if it happens at all. We don't have that many gamechanging stuff in the backlogs right now and Dawi society change is slow AF even if we did have it.
Dark as Silver said:
My point has always been that that Guildmaster represents a significantly higher bar of formalised legally enforced power, that "Just think of what my college professor would think of that" cannot meet.
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Dark as Silver said:
If we want to go as far as second biggest influence, Snorri has probably met that bar for as long as he's been the Oldest Runelord in the North. We said it to Brynna, when we first met, for a long time we had no peers
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My argument presumes that the post/power of Guild Master is irrelevant as I posit that what Vragni and Reactionaries like him is concerned is that Snorri would push teh envelope of "soft power" until his influence goes from a cultural role model to defacto leader absent a proper Guild Master. As is while Snorri is the greatest Runelord of the North, there are still


many cultural things that supercede his influence because we, admittedly, don't actively involve ourselves in politics lest our Research becomes even slower.

Edit: So more like a part time college proffesor (main job is Research/DOD contractor) whose Supporters would shun you to the point of being career suicide in a worse case scenario.

Granted this is not likely both because there are now multiple Alternative to the Khazagar, active plans to avoid that kind of relationship ,and the utter lack of interest Snorri had to the idea of centralizing power .
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Evillevi said:
Honestly I think we're talking past one another given that to me we seem to have different interpretations of words and the subtext we read from said words.

I've quoted the rest of my response because it's not really important in the grand scheme of things but if you want to have a go at it feel free.
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Nah its fine. Good talk, but if neither of us are confident we can really get our point across to the other then this seems like the time to agree to disagree.
 
Rolling:

Stone time.

EDIT: So it is, so it is.

Also I apologize for the random delay, stuff got weirdly busy in August. So much so that I couldn't write much. But we're back (damn this writer's block)
soulcake threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Stone Total: 67
67 67
 
MrRageQuit said:
Reminder he only entered as we were going through the second to last trial. I'd be immensely surprised if Kazador could catch up with us, even with good rolls.
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I think there was some time bullshit going on though. I remember he said we'd been gone for months. So it's not inconceivable that he'd show up on a high roll.
soulcake said:
"I may very well have, but taking the time to talk to the Kvinn won't tip the scales one way or the other. They departed two months ago Gorm, but Lady Ylva's testimony spoke only of a fraction of that time passing, no more than half a month.
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wabbitking said:
I know he was, but we don't know for certain if there's some time weirdness going on inside too.
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Actually, there was with Karstah running the Trial of Speed over a few hours but disappearing and reappearing to Snorri in the course of a minute or two.

That said, I'm pretty sure Thungni wouldn't allow that kind of distortion shenanigans to allow something like what you're suggesting from happening. That would be utterly unfair.
 
Snorri almost certainly has to make the Rune combo. So I think Kazador gets one more roll. Obviously Ranald is going to intervene and cause Soulcake to roll a natural 100, which gives Kazador a second, bonus roll. This is also a 100, leading to another bonus roll. Following a statistically improbable sequence of 100s, Kazador blitzes through every trial and finishes his Rune just before we do.
 
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[Image] Snerra Magnasdottir, Dwalin Hurgarsson by Renu, commissioned by me.
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    • A thing to tide you over while I plink away. Renu's tried a new style for the commissions that I vibe with, check it out! Also these are the commissions for July and August respectively. Thank you patrons, because you all largely fund these commissions. :^)

    The passing of time
    The Passing of TIme
     
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