55CP means only 1 round fighting at max efficiency (55 FL + 10 boost + 14 Sub = 79) so it's pretty pricey. But if she can get her reserves up to 150 quickly it's quite good.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
Chakra overdraw mechanics exist so technically two rounds, as you do not suffer its penalties to the check you are overdrawing for. Most combat is over after that regardless, and yeah, getting a bit more CR isn't that hard.
- Location
- Washington, USA
There are plenty of dangerous chakra beasts against which even idealized guns would be mostly useless. Mind-controllers, and ambush predators that swim or burrow, just to start. Ninja combat already leans heavily toward "light or no armor, try not to get hit" so massed low-skill rifle fire wouldn't be a context-breaking threat to them.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Ninja sleep. Massed gunfire through a wall might not be guaranteed to kill a ninja, but it's got as good a chance as most combat ninjutsu.
Is this a meaningful difference from other civilian-usable projectile weapons?
- Location
- Pacific standard
Yeah, the ability to punch through a wall faster than sound
- Location
- Washington, USA
Concealable bulletproof walls are already available to ninja - five seal barrier, force wall, air dome, likely others. If you're bypassing normal perimeter security by subterfuge in order to murder an unprepared target by collapsing a whole building on them or otherwise making a big mess, that'd just turn into a rehash of the Cold Stone Killers incident, but vastly easier to solve since civilian perpetrators can't flee at 20+ mph.
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- Location
- Pacific standard
Most ninja are not the Gōketsu. They cannot afford to sleep under sealtech bunkers every night.
That's a weeks worth of wages for a night of sleep.
The civvies who try this are dead, don't get me wrong. The ninja's buddy comes over and kills the lot of them.
A month later it'll happen again
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Crude gunfire isn't going to be supersonic.
- Location
- Pacific standard
Stompy these are sealtech weapons based around throwing a rock fast. Come on. You know the second we start this research tree we're going all the way to the end
Edit: Anyway, that's a reasonable assumption to make if we were following the same gunpowder tech tree as IRL. We're not.
Our source of propulsion is force magically applied to the projectile, rather than expanding gasses
Since there're no expanding gasses, there's no recoil to work around. Earthshaping dense barrels and/or 5sbing them gets around most of the metallurgy we'd need to get supersonic rounds normally, etc. There's absolutely no reason to think that this tech would be arbitrarily as weak as our first firearms
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The ninja we're concerned with assassinating aren't most ninja, either. Sure, this can take out regular ninja in their sleep. So can a guy with a knife. The majority of defenses that give a guy with a knife problems give a guy with a gun the same problems. Is it an improvement? Yes. Is it going to change the paradigm such that figuring out sealtech weapons is worth being a high priority? Not really, we already have ways to kill people with seals.
- Location
- how about no
If Leaf is the sole producer of ammunition I see no real risk to Leaf and by extension us from a gun-armed civilian uprising. We can have firing ranges to teach civilians how to properly use their new chakra beast self defense weapons but the moment they try to turn their guns on us we can instantly cut off further ammunition restocking, especially if the civilians must travel to Leaf itself to restock or have till n fills include dropping off rations of ammo.
I highly doubt cottage industry medieval peasants could manage the exacting specifications necessary for proper rifle bullets and/or casings.
Assuming that since your minimum size seal is thumbnail-sized, something of smaller caliber than a .50 cal won't be easy to work with it's simple to figure out that one rocket boot won't even be flintlock muzzle energies.
Energy contained in one rocket boot = mgh/2 where m is the mass of the ninja jumping, g is 9.8 m/s^2 for acceleration due to gravity, and h is the max height you can get to by jumping vertically. Divided by 2 since there's 2 rocket boots in a set
Assume a (male) ninja weighs approx 75 kg, and you can get 4m height by boosting straight up you get ~1500 joules.
A flintlock has 3500-4000 joules of muzzle energy.
That's not even close to supersonic.
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- Location
- Pacific standard
My point isn't that this is a good weapon we want to use for ourselves, I'm trying to make it clear that inventing this thing would be a death sentence for the Gōketsu until we're all S rankers. It's the don't scare the normies problem. The Gōketsu are training civilians that can kill ninja. That's a samurai uprising, one of the few things that the entire EN bands against.
A civilian with a knife does not have the same capacity to kill ninja. Ninja alertness is absolutely good enough to catch sneaking civilians, even while asleep. It's not good enough to realize that the group of 6 civilians walking down the other side of the street are carrying each a newfangled Gōketsu UNmaker, or GUN for short.
The guns wouldn't make noise, especially if the rounds are subsonic. The ninja's first hint that they're about to die would be the sound of the projectiles going through their wall.
Again, their ninja friends can clean up no problem, but this opens the ability for civilians to enact justice on ninja without hiring a different ninja to do it. They will do it, regardless of the cost to themselves.
It would be a good thing, but in this class war the ninjas have a very strong class consciousness.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
@ting's answer is pretty solid. A given ninja will likely have many students of various levels of commitment, ranging from Mari giving a few casual tips to Ami, to Kagome training Hazou extensively in the precise ways of his craft. A proper master/apprentice bond is rare and exceptionally high commitment.
Provided he survives, Reo will likely come out of the apprenticeship with a couple tweaks and an original jutsu under his belt.
Mio did not add any jutsu into the vault. Whether this is because she didn't have any jutsu to add, or because she simply did not want to contribute to the Gouketsu clan, HDK.
Without spending political capital, he expects she'd need to join ANBU or demonstrate a similar level of loyalty/usefulness to the Tower. Alternately, if Asuma's story was correct, she could try to attain a similar level of trust with the Hagoromo.
She would probably prefer at least 10 more levels of Deceit in a vacuum. She could be convinced that combat skills are the most important contributor to her socials right now, though she notes that she's very far from being anywhere near Jiraiya in strength, and even ordinary-jounin strength is unexceptional when weighed against some of the problems she has to deal with.
- Location
- United States
Is this a WoG that we can still learn classified Towet jutsu from their original clans? Legally speaking, that is.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Practically and legally, there is nothing the Tower can do to stop a clan from teaching their own rightfully owned jutsu.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Unclear to me that bullets or (musket ball-esque projectiles more likely) would actually deal lethal damage at such slow speeds not to mention shooting through a wall, especially given that IIRC ninja are somewhat more durable than the average human which is what lets them punch through trees etc without breaking an arm
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- Location
- United States
We owned Elemental Mastery and Asuma prohibited us from sharing that even within our own clan on pain of death. Made us destroy our own records too.
- Location
- a
It's time to teach EVERYONE SC guys.
- Location
- United States
You'd need Tsunade to do that. We learned it from the Tower, meanwhile it's her jutsu.It's time to teach EVERYONE SC guys.
(Non-Canon) Chapter 631: Happenings on the Paths
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
A/N: This is a "what if" chapter. Unfortunately, as far as Hazō knows, wandering wits remain incurable by MfDverse medicine.
o-o-o-o
"Good morning, ma'am."
Tsunade grunted in response. "What do you want?" she asked around a mouthful of sushi.
"I want to know if it's possible to reverse wandering wits."
She looked up, fine blonde eyebrows rising. She swallowed. "One of your people?"
"No, thankfully."
"Then who?"
Hazō squared his shoulders. "I'm not taking any action on this, I'm just exploring it. Right?"
She snorted and pushed the plate aside. "This is going to be good."
"I want to consider recruiting the Bear Summoner." He raised a hand to cut off her snort. "I know, I know. Still, you should meet the guy. He's an elite jōnin, maybe an S-ranker. He's the Bear Summoner. He's the heir to a ninja tradition from the eastern continent, knowledge that no one in the Elemental Nations has ever heard of. He could train our people. And, most important, he's a good guy. He's funny, he's kind. He's like ninja grandpa with giant murderous fuzzy monsters at his beck and call. He doesn't deserve this. I'd like to find a way to reverse his wandering wits if it can be done."
She sat back in her chair, thinking. After a moment she popped another piece of sushi in her mouth, chewing absently as she stared off into her thoughts.
"It's...not impossible," she said at last. "But he wouldn't go for it, even if I was willing to do it."
Hazō sat up even straighter. "Wait, it's possible?"
Tsunade nodded reluctantly. "Like I said, he wouldn't like it. First off, I'd need to disable his chakra system. That's a rough procedure and he needs to be conscious and clear-headed so that he can actively cooperate. That means no painkillers and he's strapped down for six hours. Once that's done he'll need a few days or a week to recover before we can do the next operation. He'll be knocked out for that one and it's dangerous. Takes about 48 hours and I've only done it a few times.
"It's an operation on the brain. The brain is incredibly delicate, so the slightest slip and at best he's dead. Second best, he's a vegetable. Worst, he's partially paralyzed and in constant pain with cognitive damage but not enough that he's unaware of what's happening to him."
"And if there's no slip?"
"Then the mental degradation stops. The incidents stop or become very infrequent. If he's lost mental function he should get at least some of it back, although he likely won't recover any lost memories."
"That's way more than I was hoping for! I already spoke to Ino about recovering lost memories for people with wandering wits—I was hoping that the Yamanaka might have something, but she said they don't but that she'll have her people try to invent something, so—"
Tsunade slashed her hand across his words, cutting them like a sword through a thread. "I'm not done. If he's lost physical function then he might get some of it back depending on whether it's based in the brain or the bones and muscles. No way to know, but a lot of it is sure to be bones and muscles so the effect will be at best marginal. More importantly, remember that I need to block his chakra system before this can happen. Then we need to wait for a while so his brain can get used to the changes. He'll have some temporary side effects—probably dizziness, maybe trouble with coordination. It'll probably fade after a week or so but it'll be scary and it might not completely disappear. Once he's physically stable again and he's gone two months without an incident then we'll start considering unblocking his chakra system. That's another six hours of pain and straps and it's likely that he permanently loses access to some of his chakra and his chakra control isn't as good going forward."
"Those sound like some significant side effects."
"Yup. On the one hand, he gets his mind back. On the other, he'll be completely vulnerable for months and a less powerful ninja forever. No jōnin or S-ranker would agree to that."
Hazō nodded. "There is that. Are you willing to do it?"
She chewed her lip unhappily while Hazō waited.
"No," she said at last.
"No?" Hazō struggled to keep the disbelief out of his voice.
"No," she said again. "The risks of harming the patient are too high, especially for someone who isn't a Leaf ninja. Plus, the dangers of having him here in Leaf and the likelihood that he would simply take off afterwards."
"Ma'am, how could it possibly not be worth it to try? He's a summoner and the unique knowledge locked up in his brain could be an invaluable advantage for Leaf. Plus, if we can help him that will give us huge points with the Bears. I need leverage to get Kumafuwafuwa to join the Crusade against the Dragons." He studied her, eye-to-eye, for a minute. "Ma'am, the Dragons are an existential threat to everyone on the Seventh Path, and quite possibly to our world as well. You've seen the Dragon scales. Do you want something like that tearing up the streets of Leaf, its touch poisoning the land forever?"
Her expression went stony. "That's a big reach, kid. Those things have shown no way of getting here."
Hazō spread his hands. "Plan for the worst, hope for the best, ma'am. We don't know that they don't have a way to get here so we have to assume they do and prepare. Besides, they're definitely a threat to the Seventh Path, including the Slugs. And I'm sure you've got friends among the Toads, right?"
"...Yeah."
"Ma'am, we've got less than a month before all the Bosses start heading for Arachnid. King Kamehameha thought it would take about a week to get them there once they start moving. I've got less than five weeks to get every additional Boss I can find to join in a war where, if they lose, the enemy gets powerful enough to be unstoppable. I want the Bears, I want the Hornets. Heck, if there's an Adorable Butterfly Clan, I'll talk to them. If you can fix Mareo, that would go a long way towards bringing the Bears onboard."
The room shuddered with Tsunade's anger as her face became stone. "I do not politicize healing, you little shit," she said quietly.
Tsunade is monumentally pissed but this is a passive 'attack', not an intentional threat or active use of aura. Can Hazō stand up to her?
Tsunade, Intimidation (?) + 6 (dice): ?
Hazō Resolve (62) - 14 (Severe Consequence) + 6 (dice): 54
Hazō is utterly crushed. His 4-box Mental stress track is filled, as are his two Mild Mental Consequences and his Medium Mental Consequence. He chooses to be Taken Out instead of continuing the fight, which allows him to shed the Medium Consequence. Tsunade wins the contest and chooses 'Hazō GTFOs' as her victory condition.
Tsunade, Intimidation (?) + 6 (dice): ?
Hazō Resolve (62) - 14 (Severe Consequence) + 6 (dice): 54
Hazō is utterly crushed. His 4-box Mental stress track is filled, as are his two Mild Mental Consequences and his Medium Mental Consequence. He chooses to be Taken Out instead of continuing the fight, which allows him to shed the Medium Consequence. Tsunade wins the contest and chooses 'Hazō GTFOs' as her victory condition.
"I didn't...that's not what I..."
"Get the fuck out of my hospital."
Hazō beat a hasty retreat.
o-o-o-o
"Good morning, Lord Hokage," Hazō said, bowing. "I'm sorry to inconvenience you?" The statement came out as a question despite his best efforts. It wasn't normal for the Hokage to meet you at the door of the Tower when you came for a meeting.
"I'm having meetings in all the conference rooms," Naruto said with a shrug and an easy smile. "Also, it's nice to get outside. This way we can get some ramen. I'm starving." He rubbed his belly to emphasize the statement.
"Yes sir," Hazō said with a smile. "Glad to do it, although this likely won't take long."
Naruto raised a hand. "It will absolutely take long," he said. "At least long enough for a brisk jog to Ichiraku's and a bowl of ramen. Or three." He turned and leaped to the nearest roof, setting out across the ninja highway at a jog, which promptly slowed to a walk when he noticed the still-semi-disabled Hazō struggling after him.
They chatted on the way, not about anything significant but merely as a way of filling time until more important business (i.e. ramen, acquisition and consumption thereof) had been transacted.
Reading the room, Hazō left any serious discussion until the Hokage finally leaned back and pushed his fourth bowl aside with a contented sigh.
"Okay, you've been patient," the blond said. "What's up?"
"Wanted to talk to you about the Bear Summoner," Hazō said. "Hagino Mareo. He's eighty, something like? Lives on the Seventh Path with the Bear Clan, but I think there's a chance we could get him to immigrate to Leaf. On the one hand, powerful ninja and summoner for Leaf at a time when we've lost a lot of people in the Triple Disaster. On the other hand, he's a foreigner and possibly a missing-nin." He hesitated.
"Yes?" Naruto asked, suddenly suspicious. "What else?"
"He's got wandering wits," Hazō admitted. "Some days he's fine. Friendly, funny, pleased to see me. Tells great stories. Some days he forgets who I am and is frightened and angry. Occasionally he gets lost in time, thinks he's twenty or thirty and doesn't understand why his hands are so wrinkly."
"Yeah, no," Naruto said instantly. "He's not coming anywhere near Leaf. Powerful ninja who occasionally forgets where he is and loses time? He'd be killing people left and right."
"Actually," Hazō said, "I spoke to Tsunade and Ino about it. Tsunade says that there is a procedure that could restore him and prevent further degradation. It's difficult and time consuming and risky so she wasn't inclined to do it but I feel like I might be able to bring her around with some more work. Also, Ino said that the Yamanaka don't have a jutsu for fixing wandering wits but they might be able to create one, so that's a backup plan if I can't get Tsunade onboard. She's got her people on it."
Naruto chewed on that for a moment. "The procedure is 'risky'. Tell me more about that. What are the risks? Is Tsunade in danger?"
Hazō shook his head. "No, just the patient. It involves blocking his chakra system, which is very painful and requires his active cooperation. Then she waits a week for it to heal before she can fix the brain damage. That needs several weeks to heal, then she can unblock his chakra system. If he fights against the blocking then he'll be damaged or killed. If she makes a mistake then he'll be damaged or killed."
"So if he agrees to the whole process, and he can get here safely, and he can fight through the pain to help Tsunade make him into a civilian for months and cut him off from his friends on the Seventh Path, and if Tsunade doesn't make the slightest mistake, and if an 80-year-old man can heal from such extensive damage, then we could fix his wits."
"Basically."
"...I'm not willing to have a witless summoner who might be an S-rank ninja wandering around the streets of—"
"Actually, the summoner thing might be useful," Hazō interjected. "Have him summon a bear as an escort. The bear can help keep him grounded and ensure that nothing goes wrong."
"Are you crazy? Bears are dangerous!"
"So are terrified and confused S-rank ninja. All we have to do is get his chakra system blocked and we're into harbor. Worst case, he dies. We're out nothing but some time and we've got the Bear Scroll." Hazō really had not wanted to bring that up but it looked like it would be necessary. "Best case, we've got the Bear Scroll and the active assistance and gratitude of the Bear Clan, plus another S-rank ninja, plus the benefit of an entire system of training and ninjutsu that no one in the Elemental Nations is familiar with or has counters to. All that at a time when Leaf is militarily at its weakest in decades. It's moderate risk, high reward. Like going all-in at pai gow when you've got Foo." He wasn't sure how much gambling Naruto had done, but presumably he would be able to recognize the name as a mid-rank hand.
The light that kindled in Naruto's eyes suggested that yes, he had in fact done some gambling. Given who his 'aunt' was, maybe that was less surprising than it could have been.
"Fine," Naruto said. "Get Tsunade onboard. Get whatsisname—Mareo—onboard. Before anything else happens, he needs to be willing to pledge his allegiance to Leaf and will the Scroll to us. If he'll do that, talk to Auntie about what she'll need for the chakra-blocking operation, then set up a surgery with all that stuff well outside the city so that she can block his system before he enters Leaf. After that, we'll talk. I'm not making a final decision yet, but I'll let you try."
"Thank you," Hazō said, smiling in relief.
"Don't thank me yet. I doubt even Aunt Sunny would bet that you could pull this off." Naruto's smile belied the doubtful words. He clapped Hazō on the shoulder. "Good luck with it. Let me know if you get Tsunade onboard, and thanks for giving me a reason to take a break. Catch you later." He tapped two fingers to his brow in casual salute, then disappeared in a puff of Shadow Clone smoke.
Hazō sighed and disappeared in a puff of Shadow Clone smoke.
o-o-o-o
Is Mareo having a good day?
d100: 17
Yup.
d100: 17
Yup.
"Huzu! Welcome back, you rotten dirty little liar!"
"...Sir?"
"You still haven't assassinated me! I was promised an orgy-induced heart attack, dangit! Where's my orgy-induced heart attack?"
"Still working on it, sir," Hazō said with a grin. "It's a big Path. Takes time to find people and get them here."
"Bah!" Mareo flapped his hands dismissively. "I say again, bah! You're a liar, Huzu. A dirty liar! You owe me, Huzu. You owe me!"
"I brought hot chocolate?"
"Aha! Gimme!" He made grabby hands at Hazō, who willingly unsealed and handed over the sweet treat.
They sat in companionable silence for a time, sipping their drinks and enjoying the warm day and the gentle breeze. Hazō knelt seiza, both hands loosely encircling his mug as he let his thoughts drift. Mareo sat on his butt, legs sprawled out in from of him as he leaned back against the giant wall of warm fur that was Kumafuwafuwa the Bear Lord. The latter kept one suspicious eye on Hazō but seemed content to enjoy the silence.
"Mareo," Hazō said finally. "There's something I want to talk to you about. It might be stressful for you, but I think it's important."
Kumafuwafuwa's head jerked up and a nearly subsonic growl undergirded the world.
"Stop that!" Mareo said, swinging his cane up and over his head so that he could bonk Kumafuwafuwa on the flank. "Hear what he has to say before you go getting all judgy."
"Thank you, sir," Hazō said through a dry mouth. He cleared his throat. "Sir, you've told me before that you know you're slipping. I might be able to help with that. Or, at least, my village might. We have Lady Tsunade, who is widely regarded as the best medic-nin in the world. I spoke to her about your situation, and she said..."
He went on, laying out the entire conversation. He held nothing back; the risks, the requirements for allegiance, the possible outcomes.
"Absolutely not!" Kumafuwafuwa snapped. "They're simply going to kill you and take the Scroll."
"Oh hush," Mareo grumbled. "So what? If they send you someone you don't like, don't accept them. What's it to you?"
The Bear glowered down at Mareo. "Are you dense? I don't want you getting murdered, you old fool."
"Bah," Mareo said, flapping one hand dismissively. "I'm a grown man. I can get murdered if I want to." He leered at Hazō. "Tell me about this Sunny Day woman. Is she hot?"
Hazō's brain fritzed. "Uh..."
Mareo poked him with the cane. "C'mon, boy! I'm not getting any younger here! Is she hot or not? Don't want to be getting myself killed by some old hag, yah? It would ruin my reputation!"
"Uh, well...first, it's probably not wise to call her 'Sunny' or 'Sunny Day', sir. Her closest comrades and friends used those names to tease her and she barely tolerates it from them. I think she would consider it presumptuous."
"Bah!" More hand flapping. "What is it with everyone getting hung up on the unimportant stuff today? Murder, blah blah, presumptuous, blah blah blah. Is she hot?!"
The words were light and airy, those of a womanizer with not a care in the world, but Hazō caught a hint of something underneath them. Could it be...fear? Hope? He wasn't sure.
"She's very hot, sir," he said, throwing caution to the winds and praying that his words never got back to the Slug Princess. "Long blonde hair, very...well-endowed. Arms with just the right amount of definition. Skin like cream and eyes like rich caramel. Also, she's an S-rank ninja who terrifies everyone."
"Oooh!" Mareo said, wrinkled old face splitting in a grin. "Hot and dangerous, me likey! I imagine this operation will consist of her manipulating all my tenketsu? Because there's worse things than letting a hot woman strip me naked, tie me down, and run her hands over my entire body."
This conversation was making Hazō more and more uncomfortable.
"This is a terrible idea," Kumafuwafuwa grumbled. "You're thinking with the wrong head again, you old pervert."
"Hush!" Mareo said, once again thumping the Bear Lord with his cane. "All right, Huzu. Get youself back to this leafy mudhole of yours and tell them they've got a Summoner coming and they should prepare accordingly. I'll need silk sheets on my bed, fresh fruit on the table at all times—whatever's in season, I'm not fussy—and a hot bath twice a day. I expect them to keep the water clean and hot at all times. Never know when I might want one."
"We have natural hot springs in Leaf, sir. You can soak whenever you like, for as long as you like."
"Ha! In that case, what are you waiting for? Get on with it!" He poked Hazō with his cane three times in quick succession. "Go get your Hokey Guy to sign off!"
Hazō grinned. "It's 'Hokage', sir. You really don't want to get that one wrong."
"Right, Hokey Guy. That's what I said."
"Hokage, sir."
"Hock A Loogie?"
"Hokage, sir."
"Bah, whatever." Mareo waved his cane dismissively. "Go on, then. Get him to make a decision, then get me a map so I know where I'm going."
"Yes sir."
Hazō made the sign of self-dismissal and vanished back to the Human Path. There was still much work to be done, but there was no way that Tsunade would refuse a patient who had explicitly requested help. Not when the Hokage had signed off. And if Hazō was a little vague about the order of operations on getting everyone onboard...it would be fine.
Right? It would be fine.
o-o-o-o
Voting remains closed.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Huh. Strange what if. Is it perhaps the first of two parts?
Given that, I am surprised that Tsunade would consider risks of harm a more serious issue for foreign ninja than she does for Leaf ninja. How come? Something along the lines of the baseline value of a life that in case of Leaf ninja gets counterweighted by the Will of Fire and the value of a functional Leaf ninja's ability to protect additional lives?
While this chapter is not canon I assume that Tsunade's characterization in it still is mostly canon compliant, right?
Given that, I am surprised that Tsunade would consider risks of harm a more serious issue for foreign ninja than she does for Leaf ninja. How come? Something along the lines of the baseline value of a life that in case of Leaf ninja gets counterweighted by the Will of Fire and the value of a functional Leaf ninja's ability to protect additional lives?