Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[Twofold]

Full party mass combat:

Spoiler: Joutaro 20 vs Full Party

Joutaro 20

vs

Hazou 15 (+2)

Akane 15 (+2)

Mari 18? (+2)

Noburi 15 (+2)

Keiko 18 (+2)

Total bonus for everyone = +10

Hazou Roki = +6

Final dice before boost:

Hazou 31

Akane 25

Mari 28

Noburi 25

Keiko 28

Here's what it would look like in my corspe imitation plan where Keiko and Akane skedaddle out of the window:

Spoiler: Joutaro 20 vs HMN

Joutaro 20

vs

Hazou 15 (+2)

Mari 18? (+2)

Noburi 15 (+2)

Total bonus for everyone = +6

Hazou Roki Bonus = +6

Final dice before chakra boost:

Hazou 27

Mari 24

Noburi 21

I assumed that Water Whip can be used in mass combat (it's ninjutsu that behaves like a weapon), that could be wrong @eaglejarl @Velorien?

Ninja'd of course

 

[OliWhail]

Unless 'Fraidy-cats had it wrong, in which case, fuck.

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Wouldn't Fraidy-cats put J at more like 30-31 dice on average, since he rolled 1600+?

 

[Muer'ci]

@Twofold Pretty sure Mari has more than 18 combat dice, but considering her rolls maybe we should plan for 16 or something

"cannot get more than a 50% (round down) bonus from this."
So at 15 most we can add is 7 dice, not 10. 9 for Keiko.

Wouldn't Fraidy-cats put J at more like 30-31 dice on average, since he rolled 1600+?

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Well, yeah. Like I said. Fuck.

I assume he has less, though still plenty. Just not... that plenty.

E: i meant right ^^'

 

[Twofold]

Ignore 'fraidy-cats, that wasn't representative of anything.

J (25 maybe i dunno, so 1/3 is 8, 2/3=16 1/2=12) then J= 25+3 =28

So Mari (20?) +2 +1+2+1+1 =27
Hazou (15) +2+1+2+1+1=22
Keiko (18)+2+1+2+1+1=25
Noburi (15) +2+1+2+1+1=22
Akane (15) +2+1+2+1+1=22

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25 is really high, but better be on the safer side I guess? With chakra boosts it would turn into:

Joutaro 25 + 7 = 32

Mari 27 + 5 = 32
Hazou 22 + 4 + 6(Roki) = 32
Keiko 25 + 5 = 30
Noburi 22 + 5 = 27
Akane 22 + 4 = 26

 

[Muer'ci]

Ignore 'fraidy-cats, that wasn't representative of anything.

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It was more of a joke, yeah. I mean, The Real J didn't roll that high, so here's hoping.

25 is really high, but better be on the safer side I guess?

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I picked high on purpose. For all we know, his sword skills compensate for everything else

With chakra boosts it would turn into:

Joutaro 25 + 7 = 32

Mari 27 + 5 = 32
Hazou 22 + 4 + 6(Roki) = 32
Keiko 25 + 5 = 30
Noburi 22 + 5 = 27
Akane 22 + 4 = 26

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Looks good. We have decent chance here if it comes to fighting. No immediate major fails, at least there shouldn't be.

E: dunno if space permits it, but Nobby could throw in a clone or two for bonus Tai die.

 

[eaglejarl]

Wouldn't Fraidy-cats put J at more like 30-31 dice on average, since he rolled 1600+?

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That chapter was complete BS. I didn't bother rolling anything, and it shouldn't be taken as representative of how J fights or how many dice he has. For all you know he's a genjutsu type who carries the sword as a false flag. (Although Mari did seem pretty sure that he really is a swordsman jonin.)

 

[Twofold]

Looks good. We have decent chance here if it comes to fighting. No immediate major fails, at least there shouldn't be.

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Problem is that I'm not sure if we can get all of that in closed spaces. (EDIT: Can't have everyone engage through the same soon to be bloody doorway.)

Then again, Joutaro might have not drawn his sword. (Actually, he might default to kunai in closed spaces anyway, same dice unless he has a kenjutsu style)

Also, elemental clones from Nobby can be stacked on top of normal chakra bonus. That would probably be better use of Nobby's time than Whipping.

Also, we might eke out surprise bonuses with a good setup.

 

[Muer'ci]

Problem is that I'm not sure if we can get all of that in closed spaces. (EDIT: Can't have everyone engage through the same soon to be bloody doorway.)

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Well, combat-story is determined by rolls. We roll high -> we maneuver around him and overwhelm him with our awesomeness.
We roll low - closed space works against us, we get stuck in the door, rocks fall whatever EJ comes up with

Also, elemental clones from Nobby can be stacked on top of normal chakra bonus. That would probably be better use of Nobby's time than Whipping.

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Both is good. I figure we get clones up at prep phase, then Nobby goes to town w/his whip.

Also, we might eke out surprise bonuses with a good setup.

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That's my hope as well. J going in from light into a dark room already plays in our favor. I hope we can capitalize on it.

I still think Genjutsu as Step 1 is best. Combine that with sneaky wire from Kei (delivered via ZR mb?) and boosted!Roki!Hazou +Water clones should be enough to cover Mari if Genjutsu fails. And then she can join for round two. (there's no way this will end in 1 round)

 

[Twofold]

Mari and Hazou with Nobby providing clones against Joutaro would look something like this:

Spoiler: J vs HMN

Joutaro 25 + 7 = 32

or

Joutaro 24 + 6 = 30

Mass Bonus:

Mari (20) 2 + 1 = 23
Hazou (15) 2 + 1 = 18

Chakra + Roki + Clones Bonus:

Mari (20) 23 + 5 + 3(clones) = 31
Hazou (15) 18 + 4 + 6(roki) = 28

Even against Joutaro that has 24 base combat dice, this is cutting it too close, if we fight we will need to whole party.

Well, combat-story is determined by rolls. We roll high -> we maneuver around him and overwhelm him with our awesomeness.
We roll low - closed space works against us, we get stuck in the door, rocks fall whatever EJ comes up with

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I wonder... I have a feeling that in this sort of specific situation (where we as players have a lot of information) the QMs might expect us to take that info into account.

One way to have the whole party take part would be to have Keiko jump out of the window and release a kunai barrage into the room where Joutaro is. That might force Joutaro to hastily dodge into our room through the door, where we would have a surprise waiting for him.

If we time it so that the barrage starts after he has opened the door, we could use the beginning of the corpse impersonation idea. The kunai riddled corpse creates a "story" for Joutaro of a single kunai assailant and his split second decision might really be to dodge into the room.

I still think Genjutsu as Step 1 is best. Combine that with sneaky wire from Kei (delivered via ZR mb?) and boosted!Roki!Hazou +Water clones should be enough to cover Mari if Genjutsu fails. And then she can join for round two. (there's no way this will end in 1 round)

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Problem is that Mari's genjutsu roll against Yummy would have lost to the Awareness roll Joutaro made in the update. It's a bit of a coin-toss if genjutsu will work.

 

[OliWhail]

Even against Joutaro that has 24 base combat dice, this is cutting it too close, if we fight we will need to whole party.

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Does that +7 and +6 take his 3-dice bonus from being the highest combatant into account? Or am I misreading the "this applies to 1-vs-many" clause of the mass combat rules?

 

[HyperCatnip]

SQUEEEEE! Actual ninja shenanigans! This is the best update ever!

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I personally dislike "ninja shenanigans" when instead of thinking, making smart decisions and acting out of enlightened self-interest we go all "Hurr durr we are ninjas, ninjas do missions, let's do this mission because ninjas and to hell with logic, reason, survival and profit, who cares about that."

Now we need to decide what to do about Joutaro and is the risk of getting into a ninja fight with him worth it.

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This mission was not worth it from the start, I think.

The civilians with cyphers on their backs change things. The pay might not be worth a fight, but if this is really slave trade then saving two civilians from whatever fate awaits them might be worth it.

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Do you believe the boy's fate with our client will be better? Or do you suggest we adopt him?

For the future we should make a picture taking seal. It would make this situation much easier.

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Hazou is our picture-taking seal.

So my suggestion to kill the boy and stick him in a storage scroll got a "funny" rating, but I am (and was) 100% serious that this is the best, most effective way to complete our mission.

Fast. Simple. Straightfoward.

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Our pay is not nearly good enough to indiscriminately kill, ruin our relationship with Honami, or risk our lives. Actually, I still consider this mission dumb from first second to the last.

Actually, if we decide not to deliver the boy, SG's presence is an excellent IC reason for it. Like, "Fuck those guys who withhold info like that"
In which case monetary reward ceases to matter altogether.

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Seconded. Actually, I was really surprised when people decided they want to risk the team for money, "hivemind experience" and ninja cliches.

 

[Twofold]

Does that +7 and +6 take his 3-dice bonus from being the highest combatant into account? Or am I misreading the "this applies to 1-vs-many" clause of the mass combat rules?

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If there are multiple people fighting on your side, then:

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So no, it doesn't take that into account and it shouldn't.

EDIT: Or that's at least how I see it.

EDIT 2: The first example (with Emma) agrees with me.

 

[Muer'ci]

I wonder... I have a feeling that in this sort of specific situation (where we as players have a lot of information) the QMs might expect us to take that info into account.

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It kind of goes both ways I think. A smart plan might net us bonus dice for "creative use of environs" or something. Stupid plan might net us a malus, if we, say, vote to rush J and get mass-stuck in the doorway.

One way to have the whole party take part would be to have Keiko jump out of the window and release a kunai barrage into the room where Joutaro is. That might force Joutaro to hastily dodge into our room through the door, where we would have a surprise waiting for him.

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Keiko relocating outside then attacking from behind could be neat. We'd probably need to break the window for her to get into sitting room, but it's something to consider.

I personally dislike "ninja shenanigans"

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We know.

This mission was not worth it from the start, I think.

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We knooooooow.

Actually, I still consider this mission dumb from first second to the last.

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*sigh*

Do you believe the boy's fate with our client will be better? Or do you suggest we adopt him?

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Well, I suggest that we remove his tattoo and let him go, but that depends on how next chapter goes.

Best case scenario, team ends up standing in the middle of the room (with unconscious J on the floor) going "now what?"
We can pick boy's fate then.

Or we run away, in which case the boy is out of our hands, so whatever.

Bit early to speculate either way.

 

[Twofold]

I personally dislike "ninja shenanigans" when instead of thinking, making smart decisions and acting out of enlightened self-interest we go all "Hurr durr we are ninjas, ninjas do missions, let's do this mission because ninjas and to hell with logic, reason, survival and profit, who cares about that."

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Then why didn't you write a plan that does something you would like to do?

Stating your opinion is well and good but complaining constantly about the course we are taking when you are not providing valid alternatives seems...kinda silly to me.

It is also super annoying.

Keiko relocating outside then attacking from behind could be neat. We'd probably need to break the window for her to get into sitting room, but it's something to consider.

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Just throw kunai through the window, problem solved. (This might make Honami cry though...windows are expensive.)

 

[faflec]

@eaglejarl @Velorien Just to clarify, what does the room and the area beyond the doorway look like? I'm having a bit of trouble picturing the layout.

 

[OliWhail]

windows are expensive

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So we should blow through the *wall*, is what I'm hearing?

 

[faflec]

So we should blow through the *wall*, is what I'm hearing?

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The wall is made of wood. Though I'd rather we blow through the door, since Joutarou is *right there*.

 

[HyperCatnip]

So, now that I vented a little, let's talk about salvaging the situation.

I think fighting Joutarou is too risky:

1. If we kill/maim him or damage the resort this will ruin our relationship with Honami. The risk is very real, the mission reward is not worth it.
2. If he kills/maims us we will lose much more than what we can gain. He is a jounin, he stands a very real chance to maim at least somebody.

I personally recommend aborting mission and leaving immediately. Delay Joutarou and run, leaving the resort.

Then why didn't you write a plan that does something you would like to do?

Stating your opinion is well and good but complaining constantly about the course we are taking when you are not providing valid alternatives seems...kinda silly to me.

It is also super annoying.

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Here is my alternative to this mission:

[X] Action Plan: Mission Cancel

I don't want a scroll. I think that sane behavior for our team is to scram when mission starts looking difficult, not stumble ahead hoping to get experience out of surviving the ensuing disaster.

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Here are some of my alternative short-term plans, proposed a looong time ago:

• Keiko, Noburi and Hazou spend a night going from bar to bar, gambling. New henge for each bar, gamble for modest bets, leave when slightly ahead.

• Hazou visits a posh casino. While there, he looks for seals to copy for research.

• Noburi chats with the merchant on the market to gauge prices and demand for goods, then team makes a run to neighboring city, buys the goods, seals them and delivers to the first city, where Noburi sells the goods to the merchants he found at the beginning of the mission.

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When you go the wrong way, each step takes you further from your goal. This mission is a wrong way. We will not start improving our situation until we stop going the wrong way.

Let's finally accept it, abort and GTFO. Our trade empire awaits.

 

[faflec]

I personally recommend aborting mission and leaving immediately. Delay Joutarou and run, leaving the resort.

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I disagree with your assessment, not because I disagree with your reasoning but because I do not believe we can successfully delay Joutarou and escape without suffering causalities (i.e., someone dies/gets caught/gets seriously hurt). The problem is that there are 5 of us (Inoue, Hazou, Keiko, Noburi, Akane), the window only fits one of us at a time, and Joutarou is 100% going to bash that door down if there isn't a response in the next second, and that (1s delay) is a generous assumption.

I must conclude that in order to survive this encounter with everyone alive, free, and not sustaining permanent injury we must defeat Joutarou, and at that point we may as well finish the mission.

 

[Muer'ci]

Just throw kunai through the window, problem solved. (This might make Honami cry though...windows are expensive.)

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Yeah. Might not work at all, too, if the angle is wrong and J is not visible.

Also good catch with mass combat rules. I like our chances better already.

So we should blow through the *wall*, is what I'm hearing?

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You laugh, but it might be a better option, as long as the wall in question is not a major support one, or whatever the proper term is. Still bad tho.

Here is my alternative to this mission:

Here are some of my alternative short-term plans, proposed a looong time ago:

When you go the wrong way, each step takes you further from your goal. This mission is a wrong way. We will not start improving our situation until we stop going the wrong way.

Let's finally accept it, abort and GTFO. Our trade empire awaits.

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AP: Mission Cancel was not a plan, X at the start or no. It was a mess (due to lack of effort put into it, not because the choice was inherently bad) and not even yours.

A bunch of ideas you mentioned at some point doesn't count as a plan either.

You know how voting works. Present an actual votable option, and don't complain that people have fun WRONG.

@eaglejarl @Velorien Just to clarify, what does the room and the area beyond the doorway look like? I'm having a bit of trouble picturing the layout.

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There's this bit, assuming you enter from corridor like a normal person:

The door opens on a sitting room and there are two bedrooms coming off to the left and right. Joutarou is taking one of the rooms, the woman and the boy are in the other.

...

• The rooms are simple and fairly spare:
  • Sitting room: two futons in couch mode, a low table between them, a total of four end tables. A small "wet bar" type nook off to the side with an array of sake, snacks, etc.
  • The bedrooms: A large bed in the middle of the wall opposite the door, a table on either side. A desk in the corner with chair. A dresser with four drawers.
  • The dressers and probably the coffee table in the sitting room would be valid kawarimi targets. Everything else is either too heavy or too light.
  • Kawarimiing into or out of the room is problematic. The glass in the windows is quite high quality for the EN, but that's not saying much; all the bubbles and imperfections distort the view and make it hard to see detail through. Also, there's the question of sightlines. If you're standing by the window, no problem. Otherwise you don't have a sightline to the ground close enough. Either way you'd need the window to be open, at which point why not just jump out it?

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Apologies if you read the edit already ^^'

 

[Twofold]

Here is my alternative to this mission:

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That's not a plan. What do you expect the QMs to do if we do that? They need us to do things to write a story.

Here are some of my alternative short-term plans, proposed a looong time ago:

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None of those ideas strike me as any more useful than the stuff we are doing here.

When you go the wrong way, each step takes you further from your goal. This mission is a wrong way. We will not start improving our situation until we stop going the wrong way.

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Yeah, it's not like we have gained allies, experience, and knowledge during this caper. (Not to mention character development) Totally a waste of time and effort.

But of course you are free to have that opinion. My problem is that you keep harping on about it in condescending tone without providing alternatives. When I say that I mean actual alternatives that are fun for us to pursue and for QMs to write about. Because that's why we are here.

I must conclude that in order to survive this encounter with everyone alive, free, and not sustaining permanent injury we must defeat Joutarou, and at that point we may as well finish the mission.

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How do you defeat a combat specialist? By not fighting him in the first place.

Meaning our best plans would be to either run away (always a choice!) OR change to Deception game...

I really feel like we could outsmart this guy. The Tea Kettle incident showed how ninjas can be outdone without dice rolls, we should aim for something like that.

 

[HyperCatnip]

I disagree with your assessment, not because I disagree with your reasoning but because I do not believe we can successfully delay Joutarou and escape without suffering causalities (i.e., someone dies/gets caught/gets seriously hurt). The problem is that there are 5 of us (Inoue, Hazou, Keiko, Noburi, Akane), the window only fits one of us at a time, and Joutarou is 100% going to bash that door down if there isn't a response in the next second, and that (1s delay) is a generous assumption.

I must conclude that in order to survive this encounter with everyone alive, free, and not sustaining permanent injury we must defeat Joutarou, and at that point we may as well finish the mission.

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We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

If we try to escape, we risk failing. Probable casualties, though I'm not sure Joutarou will chase us instead of guarding the message, if we manage to leave the room before he barges in.
If we try to fight, we risk failing. Casualties will be even more probable. Also, it will ruin our relationship with Honami.
...wanna bet who will die next update? My money is on Akane and Joutarou.

 

[MadScientist]

I need practice writing so I made a quest of my own.

I have no idea how well this will do or how long it will last, but let's try it and see.

Edit: well that was a disaster...

 

[OliWhail]

Joke suggestion: blow a hole in the wallet the sitting room a ways down from the door as a distraction, then throw open the door as a second layer distraction and send a bunch of clones in, then send Mari and Keiko through the hole in the wall with a genjutsu + weapons team-up as the fake real strategy, and finally send Hazou + Akane through the door to taijutsu J as the real real strategy.

Followed, of course, by another wave of clones through the hole in the wall and Noburi through the door, which was the actual real real strategy all along

 

[HyperCatnip]

None of those ideas strike me as any more useful than the stuff we are doing here.

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Well, they don't lead to us fighting combat specialist jounin, for one thing...

Yeah, it's not like we have gained allies, experience, and knowledge during this caper. (Not to mention character development) Totally a waste of time and effort.

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The way things are going, we are likely lose the allies you mentioned because of destroying their resort. Also, our team might have some casualties, because we are going to fight combat-oriented jounin in close quarters.

How do you defeat a combat specialist? By not fighting him in the first place.

Meaning our best plans would be to either run away (always a choice!) OR change to Deception game...

I really feel like we could outsmart this guy. The Tea Kettle incident showed how ninjas can be outdone without dice rolls, we should aim for something like that.

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I fully support any plan that does not involve us fighting Joutarou. However, I don't think we have options, here. We can't even impersonate Yami's voice.

AP: Mission Cancel was not a plan, X at the start or no. It was a mess (due to lack of effort put into it, not because the choice was inherently bad) and not even yours.

A bunch of ideas you mentioned at some point doesn't count as a plan either.

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Let's not get pedantic here.
Mission Cancel, mess or no mess, was still a much better choice than frontal assault on Joutarou.