Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

eaglejarl · Dec 5, 2021

Shrooms said:
... this is the major power up mystery box isn't it

If I wanted it to be a mystery box, seems like putting such an obvious mention in a chapter would be counter to that.

Heleor said:
Has the water poisoning issue been communicated to leadership? (Asking because of the mention of another Zoo rush and not wanting to annoy Tsunade too much.)

Yes, it has. Tsunade gave out rules to all the medics, and to Noburi, on how much people are allowed to drink.

_The_Bomb said:
Eagle, would you mind confirming whether I should treat this as technobabble? I'd hate to look too far into how summoning or chakra works (even though it seems pretty key to some Forbidden Lore) only to find that it wasn't anything you wanted to be consistent.

It is technobabble, yes.

_The_Bomb said:
There are still only six dragons that have escaped, correct?

So far as Hazō knows.

_The_Bomb said:
Does anyone know the current date/how long we need to wait until our consequences heal?

It is currently February 10. Hazō's consequences go away on the 19th.

Akane's actual birthday was the 3rd but she was on a mission at the time. Since then there has not been a day when the whole family was in Leaf at the same time, so she asked to hold off on her birthday. She and Yuno are on a mission right now, due back tomorrow. Everyone else is at home so you'll be able to do it then.

The prior paragraph is contingent on no one having died on the recent missions. We'll let you know about that as soon as we get a chance to figure it out.

_The_Bomb said:
Would you mind clarifiying what 'linking to it from a plan' means? I'm still new to writing plans and I haven't had that come up before. I've put an example of how I'm currently interpreting it below, but I'm not confident this is what you mean.

Exactly what you did -- the plan includes a link to the content instead of including the content directly. That way it doesn't count against your word total.

Lailoken said:
I love the term, "lithobraking", so many possible implications.

It's like aerobraking except it uses the lithosphere.

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

eaglejarl said:
If I wanted it to be a mystery box, seems like putting such an obvious mention in a chapter would be counter to that.

Yes, it has. Tsunade gave out rules to all the medics, and to Noburi, on how much people are allowed to drink.

It is technobabble, yes.

So far as Hazō knows.

It is currently February 10. Hazō's consequences go away on the 19th.

Akane's actual birthday was the 3rd but she was on a mission at the time. Since then there has not been a day when the whole family was in Leaf at the same time, so she asked to hold off on her birthday. She and Yuno are on a mission right now, due back tomorrow. Everyone else is at home so you'll be able to do it then.

The prior paragraph is contingent on no one having died on the recent missions. We'll let you know about that as soon as we get a chance to figure it out.

Exactly what you did -- the plan includes a link to the content instead of including the content directly. That way it doesn't count against your word total.

It's like aerobraking except it uses the lithosphere.

Oh, it can be great stuff. Unfortunately, it is far more often inadvertent. I'm remembering a particular Mars lander which dug a hole because it was an international collaboration and the collaborators forgot that the people in charge were using moon-landing units of measurement.

_The_Bomb · Dec 6, 2021

_The_Bomb said:
(Also, I'd love to hear any suggestions from the thread in general about this proto-plan. I think it should be something we should consider as soon as our severes heal. Both the Great Seal Appocalypse and 3D Sealing itself (shiny!) are definitely priorities of a time-sensative nature.

[ ] Future Plan: Investigating the Great Seal

Request permission from Asuma to look for DRAGONWAR-related information in Sand

Having him pressure the Kazekage into assisting would be enormously helpful.

Lore/Sealmasters definitely won't help unless Kazekage briefs them on DRAGONWAR

Probe Sand Sealmasters for information on 3D Sealing and other esoteric sealing disiplines

Probe loremasters (including at least one from the Yodomi) for information on:

The Sage and his companions

The Dragons and other powerful entities sealed by the Sage

Research 3D Sealing

Have Noburi ask the Toads about Dragons and the Sage's companions

Have Kagome and Kei investigate how Isan developed an entire sealing tradition from studying a single seal.

Do you have any insights how we should reverse-engineer 3D sealing from just the Great Seal?

Are there any major weaknesses in Isanese sealing that come from this? How might we avoid similar problems with our 3D sealing?

~~Ask Isolde how he originally defeated the Dragons~~

Probe Mist Sealmasters and loremasters (including Tama)

With Asuma's permission, talk to Aunt Ren and a Kurosawa Sealmaster about the Great Seal and the Dragons.

Explain how the Iron Nerve recorded details about the z-dimension.

Ask about Iron Nerve (worth a shot)

Is everything that gets recorded important?

How does it know what to record?

How can it record aspects about the Great Seal that I never saw?

Is there anything else I should know that would help me prevent the imminent destruction of Seventh and then Human Path?

Alright everyone! We are only nine days away from being healed up. It's almost show time. I'd like to iron out the details of this plan in advance so that it's all ready to go when we heal. It might not be the first thing we want to do (that honor probably going to making a better replica, based on my assumption that our injuries hampered our performance), but researching 3D Sealing and the lore behind the Dragons (and maybe the Five, mwhahahaha) is very much near the tippy top of the list.

To that effect, I want to bounce some thoughts to the thread ideas for consideration. One, we need to decide who we're taking with us. A lot of the Uplift team is needed for war efforts but we may be able to snag Akane or Mari for a bit and leave Noburi in charge of teaching Kagome and keeping the clan from falling apart. This trip isn't supposed to last long (though if we find some good stuff I can see it getting extended while we look into things), probably no more than three or four days to scope out leads in Sand plus travel time. There's also the matter of nonUplift people going with us. We should probably bring a few chunin with us for protection, ideally at least one being trained in diplomacy or familiar with Sand.

The one thing I do not want is for Kei to go with us. If Kei comes with us then we can kiss any chance of learning Five lore goodbye. She's not essenital for anything there and would hinder our efforts to uncover information, so the cost benefits seem to signal she should stay (heh, aliteration) in Leaf.

Besides for our entourage, is there anything else that we should figure out? I think between the Sand trip and the 3D Sealing research there's plenty of good scene potential in here.

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

Oh crap, need a birthday gift need a birthday gift. Hey, how about using some stone shaping? A necklace out of silver-gilded hematite? No, ninja. Nothing around the neck to grab. Perhaps a bracelet? A hairpiece augmented with pressed and dried flowers from Ino sealed between the thinnest waxed rice paper the Nara can supply? Being from Mist, he is probably the only person she has ever met who can supply even minor quantities of royal purple.

eaglejarl said:
Yes, it has. Tsunade gave out rules to all the medics, and to Noburi, on how much people are allowed to drink.

Something about this sentence seems especially perverse coming from her.

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

_The_Bomb said:
Alright everyone! We are only nine days away from being healed up. It's almost show time. I'd like to iron out the details of this plan in advance so that it's all ready to go when we heal. It might not be the first thing we want to do (that honor probably going to making a better replica, based on my assumption that our injuries hampered our performance), but researching 3D Sealing and the lore behind the Dragons (and maybe the Five, mwhahahaha) is very much near the tippy top of the list.

To that effect, I want to bounce some thoughts to the thread ideas for consideration. One, we need to decide who we're taking with us. A lot of the Uplift team is needed for war efforts but we may be able to snag Akane or Mari for a bit and leave Noburi in charge of teaching Kagome and keeping the clan from falling apart. This trip isn't supposed to last long (though if we find some good stuff I can see it getting extended while we look into things), probably no more than three or four days to scope out leads in Sand plus travel time. There's also the matter of nonUplift people going with us. We should probably bring a few chunin with us for protection, ideally at least one being trained in diplomacy or familiar with Sand.

The one thing I do not want is for Kei to go with us. If Kei comes with us then we can kiss any chance of learning Five lore goodbye. She's not essenital for anything there and would hinder our efforts to uncover information, so the cost benefits seem to signal she should stay (heh, aliteration) in Leaf.

Besides for our entourage, is there anything else that we should figure out? I think between the Sand trip and the 3D Sealing research there's plenty of good scene potential in here.

Something I've pointed out before. Sand is wrecked, but it is still a very valuable staging ground for a thunder run behind Rock's front lines and in their operational and strategic space. If their front lines lose their security of resupply and retreat they are going to get a lot less aggressive very quickly. Moreso If their leadership decides it needs to reallocate forces to protect against a possible second front and even moreso if those orders cannot be reliably sent to the front line units because somebody is capturing their couriers, cracking their codes, and manipulating the delivered orders to set their combat units up for ambushes.

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

So, anyway, are we going to try to recruit Hazou's protege? The Hags just very publicly defied Hokage orders by continuing the feud, Asuma desperately needs any sealsmith he can get, and the best place for a prospective sealsmith is with the sealmaster clan. It's all formally legal and we can tap Nara to verify that. It screws over the Hags in retaliation in a way they have no recourse against while helping a kid get a better life and helping the war effort. If the Hags decided to raise the issue in the clan council a bit of sworn testimony will leave the Gouketsu looking better and the Hags looking much worse. Free new very loyal ninja sealsmith at zero cost.

Shane_357 · Dec 6, 2021

Lailoken said:
Spiders literally use it to extend their brains and think.

I'm sorry, what?

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 6, 2021

Lailoken said:
So, anyway, are we going to try to recruit Hazou's protege?

Do you mean 'adopt'?

The Hags just very publicly defied Hokage orders by continuing the feud, Asuma desperately needs any sealsmith he can get, and the best place for a prospective sealsmith is with the sealmaster clan.

Is there a reason that Asuma is particularly desperate for sealmasters right now, specifically? Or do you mean, 'in the wake of the collapse, Leaf's seal-scribing capabilities took a hit, and they need to get that back up and running'?

It's all formally legal and we can tap Nara to verify that.

I think that there's a fair difference between 'legal' and 'going to piss a whole lot of people off'. The only way I can see that we'd be able to adopt him would be for him to formally renounce his clan, and then we adopt him.

It screws over the Hags in retaliation in a way they have no recourse against while helping a kid get a better life and helping the war effort.

I don't think that it's likely to be a net positive for the war effort. Kid Hag isn't about to become a substantially better sealsmith in short order. By the time he's ready to craft explosives, either they're all going to be dead, or we are.

If the Hags decided to raise the issue in the clan council a bit of sworn testimony will leave the Gouketsu looking better and the Hags looking much worse. Free new very loyal ninja sealsmith at zero cost.

Again, I'm not sure that there's a net positive here for the village, unless you're suggesting that Kid Hag would be significantly more loyal or a substantially better sealsmith by abandoning his clan and then being adopted by us.

Practically, I think this is a non-starter for a few reasons. Our adoption tickets are all pretty much spoken for - we owe the SSSSSS, we have estate ninja, and even if we were in a position where individuals to whom we had plausibly made commitments were all adopted, I'm not sure that 'fledgling sealsmith' is necessarily who we'd be best-served by adopting. For another, I doubt Asuma would be impressed by our arguments. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially in the middle of a war. Our move - if we care to make one - shouldn't be to escalate the conflict, which this absolutely would. And finally, the poor kid would lose everyone in his life if he jumped ship. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, rationally or not, he loves his parents/family. Goketsu makes for a great family, but I'm not sure that it's of net benefit to him to become a pariah - or that even if it is, that the decision wouldn't be so emotionally painful as to dissuade him.

If we want to do something about this, I think we should let the Kei, KEI, and Nara handle it. As it stands, I personally feel that the Hags got publicly humiliated and that's enough. More significant consequences are a) up to Asuma and not us and b) best left until after Leaf doesn't need every single ninja.

Nothing around the neck to grab.

If we can't come up with a necklace that would make anyone who grabbed it regret having existed, then I don't know what we're doing here.

At the very least, we could make her a hairpiece which has hidden spikes in it. Go ahead! Grab it. Enjoy the needles in your hand and the poison in which the needles were coated.

roobee · Dec 6, 2021

I'm curious what EN people view as counting as religion. Considering Kei thought the Aegis ritual was secular even though it had kami appeasement. And how such a word/concept dividing the two categories arose.

edit: Kei didn't seem worried about angry kami from not following the Hags religious marriage ceremony. So if the Hags rituals aren't for appeasing kami, it makes me wonder why do they do them?

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

Shrooms said:
It's a Velorien chapter and Kei could die at any time. I demand a Snowflake chapter in which Hazou escapes his injury amplified miasma of obliviousness

Knowing Kei, she'll have a transcendent moment of Mori transcendence the moment before her elegant sacrificial death and figure out how to imbue independent permanence to Snowflake so she can live on in her stead with the life she never got free of her bloodline and familial burdens. Now known as Snowfall.

Shane_357 said:
I'm sorry, what?

Extended spider cognition - PubMed

There is a tension between the conception of cognition as a central nervous system (CNS) process and a view of cognition as extending towards the body or the contiguous environment. The centralised conception requires large or complex nervous systems to cope with complex environments...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

FaintlySorcerous said:
Do you mean 'adopt'?

Is there a reason that Asuma is particularly desperate for sealmasters right now, specifically? Or do you mean, 'in the wake of the collapse, Leaf's seal-scribing capabilities took a hit, and they need to get that back up and running'?

I think that there's a fair difference between 'legal' and 'going to piss a whole lot of people off'. The only way I can see that we'd be able to adopt him would be for him to formally renounce his clan, and then we adopt him.

I don't think that it's likely to be a net positive for the war effort. Kid Hag isn't about to become a substantially better sealsmith in short order. By the time he's ready to craft explosives, either they're all going to be dead, or we are.

Again, I'm not sure that there's a net positive here for the village, unless you're suggesting that Kid Hag would be significantly more loyal or a substantially better sealsmith by abandoning his clan and then being adopted by us.

Practically, I think this is a non-starter for a few reasons. Our adoption tickets are all pretty much spoken for - we owe the SSSSSS, we have estate ninja, and even if we were in a position where individuals to whom we had plausibly made commitments were all adopted, I'm not sure that 'fledgling sealsmith' is necessarily who we'd be best-served by adopting. For another, I doubt Asuma would be impressed by our arguments. Two wrongs don't make a right, especially in the middle of a war. Our move - if we care to make one - shouldn't be to escalate the conflict, which this absolutely would. And finally, the poor kid would lose everyone in his life if he jumped ship. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that, rationally or not, he loves his parents/family. Goketsu makes for a great family, but I'm not sure that it's of net benefit to him to become a pariah - or that even if it is, that the decision wouldn't be so emotionally painful as to dissuade him.

If we want to do something about this, I think we should let the Kei, KEI, and Nara handle it. As it stands, I personally feel that the Hags got publicly humiliated and that's enough. More significant consequences are a) up to Asuma and not us and b) best left until after Leaf doesn't need every single ninja.

If we can't come up with a necklace that would make anyone who grabbed it regret having existed, then I don't know what we're doing here.

At the very least, we could make her a hairpiece which has hidden spikes in it. Go ahead! Grab it. Enjoy the needles in your hand and the poison in which the needles were coated.

Nobody is going to back the Hags or blame the Gouketsu for respecting a Ninja's personal decision after they just very publicly tried to piss off half of the entire village's combat power. Frankly, Asuma would probably like to have them taken down a peg in power. They are a constant pain of a failing clan who only along to relevance due to historic claim to jurisdiction over a philosophy Sikamaru told us they didn't even write. Since he's already clan, no adoption tickets need to be involved. There was a truce the Gouketsu were ordered to pay for. They chose to break it in the most public way possible. It is only fair to declare the truce null and void and walk away with the spoils. Nobody is going to agree that the Gouketsu are the unreasonable party here. The Hag head might well be facing outright execution for treason by defying direct Hokage order.

Black King · Dec 6, 2021

We should wait for Hazou to not have the socials of a fifth grader before trying such a daring move as adopting someone from our rival clan, someone who is only a sealmaster because we were ordered to make peace. It'd basically be profiting off a punishment. So...let's have Mari handle it and only after Hazou can defend himself.

On 3d sealing, why not try to recreate every seal we have but...in 3d.

Also researching Noburi's clan's seals for chakra absorption.

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

I just remembered that the GMs are the only ones who can hear me and my notions have a nasty habit of ending up canonized. I probably should not be giving them classic tragedy ideas about how to kill Kei.

_The_Bomb · Dec 6, 2021

Black King said:
On 3d sealing, why not try to recreate every seal we have but...in 3d.

_The_Bomb said:
Research 3D Sealing

_The_Bomb said:
Researching 3D Sealing

Research how the build material affects 3D seals

Try to identify the Great Seal's material.

Consult with expert metallurgists and geologists

Research what materials are capable of conducting chakra

Ask Asuma for a full briefing on what the Tower knows about chakra metal

Try making basic 2D seals with a chakra conductor that is not ink-based.

Investigate whether this has been done before

Attempt to recreate a 2D seal using earthshaping. Experiment with the shape of the "channel" (cylindrical, flat plane, etc.).

Research how adding a third dimension affects sealing

After theorizing from knowledge of 2D seals, try making theory from working backwards from the Great Seal

Draw on insights from Leaf Sealmasters and Iron Nerve

Use Isanese insights

Use Earthshaping to try creating extremely basic 3D seals

Focus experimentation on learning about 3D Sealing itself (leave investigating the mechanics of the Great Seal for later)

Already in there.

Emstar · Dec 6, 2021

eaglejarl said:
Hazō dropped forward in his seat in frustration, accepting the headache as unavoidable. "He can't even define it! Exercise is youthful. Green spandex is youthful. Honesty and loyalty are youthful. Hard work is Youthful. These are all positive traits, sure, but they aren't coherent. There's no organizing principle."

Elodin pointed down the street. "What color is that boy's shirt?"

"Blue."

"What do you mean by blue? Describe it."

I struggled for a moment, failed. "So blue is a name?"

"It is a word. Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts. There are seven words that will make a person love you. There are ten words that will break a strong man's will. But a word is nothing but a painting of a fire. A name is the fire itself."

My head was swimming by this point. "I still don't understand."

He laid a hand on my shoulder. "Using words to talk of words is like using a pencil to draw a picture of itself, on itself. Impossible. Confusing. Frustrating." He lifted his hands high above his head as if stretching for the sky. "But there are other ways to understanding!" he shouted, laughing like a child. He threw both arms to the cloudless arch of sky above us, still laughing. "Look!" he shouted tilting his head back. "Blue! Blue! Blue!"

Lailoken · Dec 6, 2021

MMKII said:
Elodin pointed down the street. "What color is that boy's shirt?"

"Blue."

"What do you mean by blue? Describe it."

I struggled for a moment, failed. "So blue is a name?"

"It is a word. Words are pale shadows of forgotten names. As names have power, words have power. Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts. There are seven words that will make a person love you. There are ten words that will break a strong man's will. But a word is nothing but a painting of a fire. A name is the fire itself."

My head was swimming by this point. "I still don't understand."

He laid a hand on my shoulder. "Using words to talk of words is like using a pencil to draw a picture of itself, on itself. Impossible. Confusing. Frustrating." He lifted his hands high above his head as if stretching for the sky. "But there are other ways to understanding!" he shouted, laughing like a child. He threw both arms to the cloudless arch of sky above us, still laughing. "Look!" he shouted tilting his head back. "Blue! Blue! Blue!"

Oh, words are the most powerful invention ever. So much so that they are built into human development at a biological level. Lock two infants in a room and they will grow up naturally constructing their own language. The greatest evil to ever beset humanity which killed more people than anything else in all of history is gone from the world forever because a volunteer college student who had zero formal authority and didn't even know the local language dropped into a hot zone on the opposite side of the planet and the one sentence he memorized got him an interpretor and meeting with the mayor in five minutes and blockades stopping trains ten minutes later. It's worse than useless now. The power of the sentence was pissed away before you were even born and now it'll just get you laughed in the face, but there was a time when a single sentence could shake mountains.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 6, 2021

Lailoken said:
Nobody is going to back the Hags or blame the Gouketsu for respecting a Ninja's personal decision after they just very publicly tried to piss off half of the entire village's combat power.

The half of the village that didn't get invited to the wedding and that probably doesn't approve of what actually happened at the wedding - to say nothing of what they heard happened at the wedding, which is a tale that will brow in the telling - is not going to be impressed. They're going to see the Hags in a pretty sympathetic light. We need to break the conservative movement, but now is not the time. We don't have the oomph or the leverage.

Lailoken said:
Frankly, Asuma would probably like to have them taken down a peg in power.

I don't think that losing a kid that they didn't particularly like who was never particularly useful is going to be a blow. More to the point, 'but we thought you'd want us to retaliate' seems like a great way to spoil a perfectly good opportunity to score some brownie points by taking the high road.

Lailoken said:
They are a constant pain of a failing clan who only along to relevance due to historic claim to jurisdiction over a philosophy Sikamaru told us they didn't even write.

From another perspective, they're the guardians of traditions that the village holds near and dear. If they all dropped dead tomorrow, how long do you think it would take for that to be a net benefit to the village? I'd estimate months at the very least.

Lailoken said:
Since he's already clan, no adoption tickets need to be involved.

That's a fair point - I'd forgotten that. I need to look up the exact rules.

Lailoken said:
There was a truce the Gouketsu were ordered to pay for. They chose to break it in the most public way possible. It is only fair to declare the truce null and void and walk away with the spoils. Nobody is going to agree that the Gouketsu are the unreasonable party here.

The Hags would doubtless say that if they acted against anyone, here, it was the Nara and the KEI. And I think that they have enough of a point to sway Asuma while we're in the middle of WWIV. I would like to keep this interaction in our pocket until we can say, 'hey, so, you remember how the Hags threatened the unity of the village in the middle of a war that we helped you win, and, in doing so, broke a truce that we honoured even after they violated it? Can you Hokage at them a bit, please?' because it seems like it has a much better ROI given that the war is going to last a month or two more at outside.

Lailoken said:
The Hag head might well be facing outright execution for treason by defying direct Hokage order.

If this happens, I'm happy to go loot the body of his shattered clan, but I don't think Asuma is going to execute someone who's got a jonin aura in the middle of a world war.

I think that, generally, taking the high road to start with is wise. You get a much better vantage point, the ability to throw things at your enemies, and it's much easier to go low from up top than it is to try to climb up once you're down there.

Spector29 · Dec 6, 2021

RandomOTP said:
Okay, so my orientation means that I don't grok how people can find certain clothes more attractive than other clothes. I've spoken with others enough to have an objective/indirect understanding of it (hints of the unknown, colors that flatter one's complexion, showing curves/lines of the body, etc) but I still have to approach it like a color blind person might approach artistic color theory. That is, intellectually, across the gap of Qualia, [and] with a certain amount of faith [that it's not just one giant prank].

I've also waxed poetic before on how marriage as an institution confuses me.

So, all disclaimers said, I'm not sure how much of this plan meshes with Hazou-pilot's belief system (he's a straight, teenage boy, and also a clan head). So if the QMs say that certain parts are untenable, then that's that.

[x] Action Plan: A Snowflake Scene with Plausibly Romantic Overtones
Words: tbd

Spend time with Snowflake, she picks the thing ("anything not paperwork, please")

Compliment her attire during Yuno's Birthday Ceremony and during her Wedding Ceremony

We don't really care about clothes beyond utility, more the person actually wearing them.

More important than matching colors or contrasting patterns, you seemed to carry yourself more confidently while wearing those clothes, and that's what's important to us (not the actual cloth, itself).

Ask how things have changed now that they're all married (also: laugh at Hag). Is there any difference in the relationship as it existed pre-ceremony, versus post-ceremony?

Discuss the philosophy of marriage, but keep thing light.

I support the theory behind this plan (date Snowflake) but there are at least two other girls we need to check in with before even thinking these thoughts.

FaintlySorcerous · Dec 6, 2021

This isn't a good enough plan for my to want to put it out there, but Hinata has been nice enough to us that I don't think it could hurt to mention wallbanger seals to her.

Do we have any short-term goals right now? I think it's pretty key that we contribute to the war effort in short order. Not doing everything we can in WWIV is a bad look.

[Y] Action Plan: Politicking

Arrange for a meeting with Hinata. Keep things fairly light, but hit a few (Mari-vetted) key points. If she steers the conversation away from politics, follow her lead.

Lament that Goketsu is held in such poor regard by conservative blocs. We all want what's best for the village. We wish we could focus on what unites us and not what separates us.
We have tremendous respect and admiration for the Hyuuga - both as a political institution and as individuals (Hinata at the Exams, Neji, Motokazu).
Thank her for her help with Orochimaru.
Would macerators with offset expulsion and the Byakugan combine to let them fire through walls/barriers? Could be an interesting research project, if they don't have similar techniques.
We envy her close ties with other clan heads given that they trained together. We appreciate her making time for us, especially given that she's doubtless busy with the war.

The goal is to communicate support for her attempts at liberalization and make overtures to closer relations while providing her plausible reasons to distance herself ('can't make a social lunch, too busy attending to WWIV') if we're a liability.

Meet with Canteloupe and Cantilever. Make reasonable offers. Try to dig into why they can't be together and see if it's anything we can help with - the mission pay could make for a great dowry or peace offering.

Keep working with Kagome. Make time to be supportive of clan members - both formal and estate ninja - who have been on missions.

Demonstrate advances in the field of Hazolation to Asuma and present the Michiki-70. We haven't optimized it or spent time coming up with strategies yet - we thought it best to show him immediately. Try to arrange for this to be a surprise for Michiki. Emphasize that this is Michiki's work - we provided ideas and support, have to credit him.

_The_Bomb · Dec 6, 2021

SAND TRIP: Addressing A Few Concerns

Question: Isn't Hazō too injured to research 3D sealing and safely travel to Sand?
Answer: Yes. This is a plan for after the consequences heal.

Question: Doesn't Hazō need to be in Leaf to train Kagome?
Answer: This trip won't take very long, likely a maximum of three or four days in Sand itself plus travel time (@faflec, how long would that be?). I don't see Asuma having a problem with us having Noburi take over Kagome's training for such a short timeframe. If Noburi is needed for another Zoo Rush while we are away, then Kagome will spend a day making Skywalkers and explosive tags for the village.

Question: Won't Asuma have a problem with us focusing on the Great Seal instead of WWIV?
Answer: As seen in the quote below, Asuma considers the Great Seal to be a very serious issue.

eaglejarl said:
"Yup." Another drag on the cigarette. "And a lot of other clans are going to be furious about it." He chuckled. "I don't even think Hazō realizes that he's blackmailing me."

"Seriously?"

"It's not how his brain works. He doesn't realize that he's put me in a situation where I have to authorize a military operation that might cost Leaf lives and significant military assets, and then I'm going to have to pay him for it with a massive increase to his clan's power and wealth."

"Why?"

"Because Kagome needs to be a summoner so that he can go to Arachnid territory and help figure out why a massive seal is failing in ways that might potentially destroy reality." He stubbed the cigarette out and rolled another, continuing to speak as he did. "And I have no way of verifying any of that. The preponderance of evidence suggests that it's true—Enma agrees that strange things have been happening on the Seventh Path, Hazō is a terrible liar, and I would like to think that even his thick head has absorbed the idea that if he screws with me one more time I'm going to kill him and damn the consequences. I also don't think that he has the forethought to run a con this long and I'm confident that Mari would understand the cost/benefit analysis, realize that the Scroll isn't worth the risk, and stop him from doing it. So yes, I think there really is a Great Seal, it really is failing, and that Hazō in his expert opinion—which, to be frank, is very expert—believes that there are going to be catastrophic effects when it does and that he needs Kagome's help to prevent it. Which means I need to run this op and I need to give them the Scroll afterwards."

Based on the bolded section, I highly doubt that Asuma will intefere or even be upset that we want to search for leads on the Great Seal. Especially since, this time, it doesn't require him to risk a significant portion of Leaf's combat assets. Additionally, Asuma is currently having us devote most of our time to training Kagome (a Great Seal project not a WWIV project), which strongly suggests that this is the sort of thing he would actually prefer us to be doing.

Question: Isn't Hazō needed for the war effort?
Answer: See above. This trip wouldn't interfere with Hazō's current contribution to Leaf's war efforts (which is currently nothing due to Asuma having us spend our time training Kagome).

Question: Isn't it dangerous to go to Sand?
Answer: Yes, though it's a lot less dangerous than all the missions our clanmates have been doing and substantially less dangerous than letting the Dragons invade our reality. Sand is away from the war and we'll hire a few chunin to escort us on this trip, along with taking Akane or Mari with us if that's an option. We'll have to reasses our options based on who is availiable and how many ninja we can hire when we actually go, but for now it seems like we'll be able to have adequate protection.

Question: Why are we actually going to Sand in the first place?
Answer: So far, all we've managed to do to stop the imminent destruction of both the Human and the Seventh Path from eldritch beings is slightly slow down deteriation of the Great Seal by bleeding off excess chakra. All we did is buy ourselves an indeterminent amount of time to find a way to fix a problem we do not understand in the slightest. Going to Sand and talking to their lore/sealmasters is a chance to gain leads on 3D sealing (which we will be directly working on as soon as we return) and on the actual purpose/history of the Great Seal.

@Paperclipped summed the situation up pretty well when he said, "we continue not to have enough gears and levers on the Great Seal..." We currently have a gigantic problem and almost no way of fixing it. In other words, time to start searching for leads.

(Also the current crisis is an EXCELLENT oppurtunity to squeeze Five lore out of the Yodomi without setting off alarms.)
Question: Why not Mist instead of Sand?
Answer: Our access to Mist is currently blocked by Cloud holding the coast, making a journey there substantially more dangerous. There's also the fact that Asuma has Sand by the balls with the power desparity and ability to cut off their food supply. Mist isn't a bad place to go (I actually have something about what we should do there in the "For a Later Date" spoiler), but it should wait until it's a safer place to journey. Sand isn't the only place we should go, but it is the first place we should go.

If anyone has any other questions or concerns, please let me know.

_The_Bomb · Dec 6, 2021

[X] Action Plan: Celebrate Akane's Birthday and Timeskip to Feburary 19th

Pharos · Dec 6, 2021

_The_Bomb said:
SAND TRIP: Addressing A Few Concerns

Question: Isn't Hazō too injured to research 3D sealing and safely travel to Sand?
Answer: Yes. This is a plan for after the consequences heal.

Question: Doesn't Hazō need to be in Leaf to train Kagome?
Answer: This trip won't take very long, likely a maximum of three or four days in Sand itself plus travel time (@faflec, how long would that be?). I don't see Asuma having a problem with us having Noburi take over Kagome's training for such a short timeframe. If Noburi is needed for another Zoo Rush while we are away, then Kagome will spend a day making Skywalkers and explosive tags for the village.

Question: Won't Asuma have a problem with us focusing on the Great Seal instead of WWIV?
Answer: As seen in the quote below, Asuma considers the Great Seal to be a very serious issue.
Based on the bolded section, I highly doubt that Asuma will intefere or even be upset that we want to search for leads on the Great Seal. Especially since, this time, it doesn't require him to risk a significant portion of Leaf's combat assets. Additionally, Asuma is currently having us devote most of our time to training Kagome (a Great Seal project not a WWIV project), which strongly suggests that this is the sort of thing he would actually prefer us to be doing.

Question: Isn't Hazō needed for the war effort?
Answer: See above. This trip wouldn't interfere with Hazō's current contribution to Leaf's war efforts (which is currently nothing due to Asuma having us spend our time training Kagome).

Question: Isn't it dangerous to go to Sand?
Answer: Yes, though it's a lot less dangerous than all the missions our clanmates have been doing and substantially less dangerous than letting the Dragons invade our reality. Sand is away from the war and we'll hire a few chunin to escort us on this trip, along with taking Akane or Mari with us if that's an option. We'll have to reasses our options based on who is availiable and how many ninja we can hire when we actually go, but for now it seems like we'll be able to have adequate protection.

Question: Why are we actually going to Sand in the first place?
Answer: So far, all we've managed to do to stop the imminent destruction of both the Human and the Seventh Path from eldritch beings is slightly slow down deteriation of the Great Seal by bleeding off excess chakra. All we did is buy ourselves an indeterminent amount of time to find a way to fix a problem we do not understand in the slightest. Going to Sand and talking to their lore/sealmasters is a chance to gain leads on 3D sealing (which we will be directly working on as soon as we return) and on the actual purpose/history of the Great Seal.

@Paperclipped summed the situation up pretty well when he said, "we continue not to have enough gears and levers on the Great Seal..." We currently have a gigantic problem and almost no way of fixing it. In other words, time to start searching for leads.

(Also the current crisis is an EXCELLENT oppurtunity to squeeze Five lore out of the Yodomi without setting off alarms.)
Question: Why not Mist instead of Sand?
Answer: Our access to Mist is currently blocked by Cloud holding the coast, making a journey there substantially more dangerous. There's also the fact that Asuma has Sand by the balls with the power desparity and ability to cut off their food supply. Mist isn't a bad place to go (I actually have something about what we should do there in the "For a Later Date" spoiler), but it should wait until it's a safer place to journey. Sand isn't the only place we should go, but it is the first place we should go.

If anyone has any other questions or concerns, please let me know.

Have you considered leveling stone shaping? It's unknown what higher levels do, but it seems like a viable way for Hazou to start smithing 3D seals. It might improve his senses as an added effect of the improved precision, and will allow him make better Great Seal replicas for other sealmasters to analyze. Leveling stone shaping first would probably make the trip to Sand more productive.

I don't know anything about our level system though, so I have no idea whether it's feasible or worth it for us to level stone shaping right now. Just haven't seen it suggested recently.

Cariyaga · Dec 6, 2021

Do keep in mind that Velorien prefers against timeskips, both generally and writing them himself, to my knowledge.

Inferno Vulpix · Dec 6, 2021

_The_Bomb said:
SAND TRIP: Addressing A Few Concerns

Question: Isn't Hazō too injured to research 3D sealing and safely travel to Sand?
Answer: Yes. This is a plan for after the consequences heal.

Question: Doesn't Hazō need to be in Leaf to train Kagome?
Answer: This trip won't take very long, likely a maximum of three or four days in Sand itself plus travel time (@faflec, how long would that be?). I don't see Asuma having a problem with us having Noburi take over Kagome's training for such a short timeframe. If Noburi is needed for another Zoo Rush while we are away, then Kagome will spend a day making Skywalkers and explosive tags for the village.

Question: Won't Asuma have a problem with us focusing on the Great Seal instead of WWIV?
Answer: As seen in the quote below, Asuma considers the Great Seal to be a very serious issue.
Based on the bolded section, I highly doubt that Asuma will intefere or even be upset that we want to search for leads on the Great Seal. Especially since, this time, it doesn't require him to risk a significant portion of Leaf's combat assets. Additionally, Asuma is currently having us devote most of our time to training Kagome (a Great Seal project not a WWIV project), which strongly suggests that this is the sort of thing he would actually prefer us to be doing.

Question: Isn't Hazō needed for the war effort?
Answer: See above. This trip wouldn't interfere with Hazō's current contribution to Leaf's war efforts (which is currently nothing due to Asuma having us spend our time training Kagome).

Question: Isn't it dangerous to go to Sand?
Answer: Yes, though it's a lot less dangerous than all the missions our clanmates have been doing and substantially less dangerous than letting the Dragons invade our reality. Sand is away from the war and we'll hire a few chunin to escort us on this trip, along with taking Akane or Mari with us if that's an option. We'll have to reasses our options based on who is availiable and how many ninja we can hire when we actually go, but for now it seems like we'll be able to have adequate protection.

Question: Why are we actually going to Sand in the first place?
Answer: So far, all we've managed to do to stop the imminent destruction of both the Human and the Seventh Path from eldritch beings is slightly slow down deteriation of the Great Seal by bleeding off excess chakra. All we did is buy ourselves an indeterminent amount of time to find a way to fix a problem we do not understand in the slightest. Going to Sand and talking to their lore/sealmasters is a chance to gain leads on 3D sealing (which we will be directly working on as soon as we return) and on the actual purpose/history of the Great Seal.

@Paperclipped summed the situation up pretty well when he said, "we continue not to have enough gears and levers on the Great Seal..." We currently have a gigantic problem and almost no way of fixing it. In other words, time to start searching for leads.

(Also the current crisis is an EXCELLENT oppurtunity to squeeze Five lore out of the Yodomi without setting off alarms.)
Question: Why not Mist instead of Sand?
Answer: Our access to Mist is currently blocked by Cloud holding the coast, making a journey there substantially more dangerous. There's also the fact that Asuma has Sand by the balls with the power desparity and ability to cut off their food supply. Mist isn't a bad place to go (I actually have something about what we should do there in the "For a Later Date" spoiler), but it should wait until it's a safer place to journey. Sand isn't the only place we should go, but it is the first place we should go.

If anyone has any other questions or concerns, please let me know.

Remember that big delegation hype we had a while back? To my understanding the main practical takeaway we got from it is 'we've delegated most things as well as we can, we just keep assigning Hazou to all our new ideas instead of delegating our ideas as we have them' and that seems like it applies here.

To put it simply: Question: Why Hazou? Do we intend to make a Great Seal replica there? Are we better than anyone else at convincing them the threat is real? Are we the only sealmaster in Leaf who knows what questions to ask?

Here's the counter-proposal Asuma will intuitively weigh this against: (alongside, you know, 'no, I do not approve this mission') 'How about I send one of the other sealmasters who've been working on analyzing the Great Seal, so I don't have to dedicate another summoner like Noburi to teaching Kagome when Leaf needs all hands on deck?' and I'm not sure this stacks up.

If I'm being honest, I've got some alarm bells ringing in my head looking at this plan. It looks just a little too much off-focus, an item of 'extra things to do there' too many. It smacks of greed, Hazou wanting to make the most of the situation to get himself some shinies, and I can't see that not bleed through into his approach to this... and I can't see Asuma not pick up on it. After the Arachnid Scroll, I don't think Asuma has much patience for this kind of shenanigans, and that's in the optimistic case where we in fact make a very reasonable case for why it has to be Hazou that goes there. If we go up to him with greed in our eyes and it turns out nothing we want to do can't be done just as well and with an order of magnitude less headache by another Leaf sealmaster, I imagine his temper will get real short with us.

And the whole thing may get nixed as a hare-brained scheme anyways. What are the odds, realistically, that Sand believes Leaf about the Dragonwar and lets Hazou talk to their sealmasters and Thinkers to extract Forbidden Lore and "information on 3D Sealing and other esoteric sealing disiplines"? Even Asuma only believes it because he has a good enough read of Hazou to know he's not lying, but what's that going to mean to Sand? Even if they've heard of the Dragonwar already, the most probable position is that it's another Leaf propaganda stunt - it's not like they're any strangers to it, what with the Edo Tensei scam - and would you look at that someone's come by claiming the Dragonwar is so important Leaf needs Sand's secrets.

I put a bit of bite into that, but I don't think it's an unreasonable worry, and there's no plan for how Hazou is going to singlehandedly convince Hidden Sand that we're not scamming you, honest. That's just the one point of failure though, alongside other reasons why Asuma might veto the mission entirely, alongside reasons why Asuma might send someone other than Hazou. The plan smacks of magpie instincts and no matter how he rules it Asuma will not approve of us once again having a Very Reasonable Idea that just so happens to cater to our greed in the process.

Stepping back a bit, why are we not even bothering to get the opinion of anyone around us? Like, if our primary goal is to get Sand involved in the Dragonwar, why are we going directly to Asuma to request a mission there without even asking Kei and Shikamaru, resident 'here's how to make your plan not awful' and *flips to page 394* experts, our question of 'hey so what's the most practical way to get Sand and Mist helping out with the Dragonwar?'

This feels way too abrupt and way too underplanned and the more I think about it the less I think I can condone the strategy in its current incarnation. I'm honestly not sold on the idea in general but even if I was I'm far from sold that this is a good way to approach it.

Ipsos Custodes · Dec 6, 2021

eaglejarl said:
Various clan members have been deployed on various missions at Asuma's request. We'll be rolling for everyone's survival after some discussion of the odds. Mission counts are based on the assumption that people survived through the first ones and will be modified if it's later determined that they died.

Akane and Yuno have been out as a team three times, running patrol and deconfliction missions (i.e. "go here and kill everything that moves unless it's a citizen of Fire")

Mari was out for 4 days with a KEI chūnin backing her up, details classified

Mari was out for 3 days with a KEI chūnin backing her up, details classified

Noburi powered another Zoo Rush, although the details were classified and you haven't heard what happened

Haru was teamed with a KEI chūnin and sent to demolish a civilian mill town in Rock

Are Chunin usually paired only in two person teams? I thought the 'standard' was three person teams, three person + jonin if the three are genin. That may be canon poking its head into this, but three genin + jonin seems standard in story.

I assume Mari + KEI Chunin is more of a specialty team infiltration/seduction, so it would be an exception to the more standard military doctrine as applied to assault teams. Also, it's good to see Mari isn't being made to do the work itself, only to protect another.

What about our other estate ninja, did they not have any missions?

Orisha91 · Dec 6, 2021

I concur on working on leveling earthshaping.

Also interested very in seeing how earthshaping interacts with metal ores near the great seal now that we know that it distorts jutsu.

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