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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Veedrac said:
I mean, sure, but this is also the Hazō who snarked at Zabuza while under a full-on mental attack. Just seems incongruous is all.
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eaglejarl said:
Noburi snorted. "You mouthed off until Captain Zabuza got pissed and crushed you like a bug. Somehow, you still managed to speak a few more words. He snarled and took a step towards you. Then Jiraiya just...moved, and suddenly there was a hole in the wall and he and Captain Zabuza were gone."
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@Velorien I did check the chapter before I commented. In one case he's being splatted by Zabuza, explicitly as a full-on attack, and still says
eaglejarl said:
"How much...did they...pay you?" he gasped.
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In the other case he's being splatted by Orochimaru, except Orochimaru isn't even really doing anything explicitly aggressive, and says
Velorien said:
"It's a secret special ability of the Iron Nerve," Hazō explained as fast as clarity of speech would allow. "When I looked at the Great Seal, I was able to—"
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It's not that Hazō should have won the battle of wits, just that it's hard to marry the idea of Hazō as someone would would take arbitrary psychological damage for the sake of his plan in one case, and just fold over and betray the clan in another. Like it's mechanically coherent, because that's how the dice work, it's just not a convincingly grounded characterization.
 
Noumero said:
I could see the argument that Oro has some bioaugmentations bolstering his key-upload ability, though. Maybe he releases some sort of pheromones or infrasound, maybe he has additional muscles in his face that he can contract to look inhumanly uncanny, etc. But I'd really expect someone to notice and point that out, by this point.
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eaglejarl said:
"For the record, I have done a classified but very high number of seduction missions, too many of which required me to get into the bed of someone that I found personally revolting. I have had guys want me to act like a little girl, or tell me to take a very cold bath and then lie still. I have had men call me every filthy name you can imagine while they were pounding into me. I have pretended to be enthusiastic about a lot of disturbingly weird stuff, because that was the mission. I have never in my life felt so unclean, so utterly degraded and objectified, as when Orochimaru casually studied me for five seconds while I was mopping up his office. After we finish here I am going to take a bath and scrub off three layers of skin so I can hopefully feel clean again." She shuddered. "He never glanced at my tits or my ass, and I'm confident he wasn't thinking about fucking me; I can't even make my brain picture what he might have been imagining, because I start to shake every time I do."
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This sounds like bio stuff. Since I don't understand why Mari would have such a strong reaction from just Oro being a creepy psycho murdering S ranker looking at her.
 
Veedrac said:
It's not that Hazō should have won the battle of wits, just that it's hard to marry the idea of Hazō as someone would would take arbitrary psychological damage for the sake of his plan in one case, and just fold over and betray the clan in another. Like it's mechanically coherent, because that's how the dice work, it's just not a convincingly grounded characterization.
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There are a number of differences one could point to, but the most obvious is that against Zabuza, Hazō was the attacker, going in with a plan into which he'd sunk six Aspect invocations. Against Orochimaru, Hazō was the defender and on the back foot in every possible way before the dice were ever rolled.

faflec said:
If possible, leave a note for someone with Kei
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I'm not sure how to interpret this. Who is the intended recipient of the note, whom is it meant to be left with, and what is it supposed to contain? Right now, I am seeing either "[leave a note for someone] [with Kei]", which doesn't make sense since Kei is about to leave with Hazō or "[leave a note] [for someone with Kei]", which doesn't make sense either.
 
Velorien said:
There are a number of differences one could point to, but the most obvious is that against Zabuza, Hazō was the attacker, going in with a plan into which he'd sunk six Aspect invocations. Against Orochimaru, Hazō was the defender and on the back foot in every possible way before the dice were ever rolled.
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And I agreed it made sense mechanically. The qualm isn't that the dice were rolled wrong, it's the incongruity between them and the expected non-algorithmic outcome.
 
Veedrac said:
And I agreed it made sense mechanically. The qualm isn't that the dice were rolled wrong, it's the incongruity between them and the expected non-algorithmic outcome.
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I'm using the mechanical aspects here as a proxy for the different nature of the situation. It's the difference between attacking someone from a position of preparation and conviction, and then managing to choke out a few last words with the remainder of your momentum, and being suddenly attacked while at an overwhelming psychological disadvantage on multiple levels.
 
Velorien said:
There are a number of differences one could point to, but the most obvious is that against Zabuza, Hazō was the attacker, going in with a plan into which he'd sunk six Aspect invocations. Against Orochimaru, Hazō was the defender and on the back foot in every possible way before the dice were ever rolled.
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Damn, you beat me to it.

Veedrac said:
And I agreed it made sense mechanically. The qualm isn't that the dice were rolled wrong, it's the incongruity between them and the expected non-algorithmic outcome.
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You're missing the point that @Velorien is making: It's the difference between (A) going into a situation braced for it with a plan and a goal while at the peak of your health, knowing that you're very unlikely to be physically harmed because you've got a massive bodyguard around you and (B) being confronted by one of your personal bogeymen while alone, unprepared, and you're still pretty much physically disabled. Honestly, if Hazō had won that contest it would have been a case of the mechanics not matching the expected non-algorithmic outcome.

EDIT: Ninja'd.
 
Velorien said:
Past a point, ninja are just inherently magical, and you can try to dig into the physics of how that works, or you can accept that it's somehow possible for a ninja to be ten times as good at everything as a normal human expert while still in their 20s and move on.
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This part is enough for me, if I'm being honest. If the idea is that latent-chakra ninja limit-breaking allows for Orochimaru's intimidation attempts to become a sort of psychic attack even without calling upon his Jounin Aura, then the scene we saw is not being held to 'you could actually do this in real life' standards.

I don't think the other arguments are really convincing (the relative difference between Orochimaru and Hazou doesn't inherently cancel out the absolute difference between Hazou and children. As Noumero said, take it as keys and locks and what you have is Hazou is a strong but not very strong lock and Orochimaru is amazingly great at key-generation but even then the key still has to fit in the lock and what would open a much weaker lock would not be sufficient here) but it's all moot when there's already a valid throughline for how Hazou's will was broken in that scene.
 
eaglejarl said:
Snowflake poofed into existence, nodding thanks as Kei handed her the green ribbon that she used to identify herself.
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Idle note from a brain that's half swiss cheese and half mush right now:

IIRC, Snowflake's hair ribbon has transitioned from "white" to "red" to "green." Back during the Wedding Announcement Party, Noburi was panicked at the thought of a guest wearing green to such a party, and arranged for a distraction so Yuno wouldn't see it and take (bloody) offense.

We know "white" in Isanese Color Language means "unmarried young woman." We don't know what "red" means in Isanese Color Language, but in the real world it is often used to denote "desire, passion, and love," so perhaps we can assume something similar wrt "red" in Isanese Color Theory. As for "green," I'm unsure. "Green," in Isanese Color Theory could mean "renewal, growth" but that wouldn't explain Noburi's panic. Perhaps "jealousy/envy?" It would explain Noburi's panic, but Snowflake doesn't appear jealous/envious (of course, I've mentioned before how Snowflake seems to be favoring subtlety in her "pursuit" of Hazou the Oblivious, and I've speculated before about why Kei may be jealous/envious of Ami's ability to flirt with Hazou so easily).

Does anyone have any other ideas as to what Snowflake's green ribbon may signal? Because while "growth/renewal" and "jealousy/envy" seem to map well on a surface level, those answers also seem... insufficient. Although, perhaps there is some nuance to those answers that I may missing --after all, Isanese Culture is Weird, and Hazou was able to prank Ami by conveying a detailed thought via Ami's braid.
 
RandomOTP said:
Idle note from a brain that's half swiss cheese and half mush right now:

IIRC, Snowflake's hair ribbon has transitioned from "white" to "red" to "green." Back during the Wedding Announcement Party, Noburi was panicked at the thought of a guest wearing green to such a party, and arranged for a distraction so Yuno wouldn't see it and take (bloody) offense.

We know "white" in Isanese Color Language means "unmarried young woman." We don't know what "red" means in Isanese Color Language, but in the real world it is often used to denote "desire, passion, and love," so perhaps we can assume something similar wrt "red" in Isanese Color Theory. As for "green," I'm unsure. "Green," in Isanese Color Theory could mean "renewal, growth" but that wouldn't explain Noburi's panic. Perhaps "jealousy/envy?" It would explain Noburi's panic, but Snowflake doesn't appear jealous/envious (of course, I've mentioned before how Snowflake seems to be favoring subtlety in her "pursuit" of Hazou the Oblivious, and I've speculated before about why Kei may be jealous/envious of Ami's ability to flirt with Hazou so easily).

Does anyone have any other ideas as to what Snowflake's green ribbon may signal? Because while "growth/renewal" and "jealousy/envy" seem to map well on a surface level, those answers also seem... insufficient. Although, perhaps there is some nuance to those answers that I may missing --after all, Isanese Culture is Weird, and Hazou was able to prank Ami by conveying a detailed thought via Ami's braid.
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Maybe green means you're pursuing someone you aren't yet in a relationship with, compared to the other ribbon just showing that you are single
 
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Velorien said:
Yuno had chosen to go last, and her present was a simple green blindfold.

"When Isan was being founded," she'd begun, "Akio chose Kanda Yukari, the great storyteller, from among his companions to record the story of Ui Isas and his successors. Kanda was unclean,"—thanks to Mari's training, Hazō caught a very brief eye flicker in Keiko's direction—"so she never had any heirs, and the role of lorekeeper ended up going to the Inoue. Still, when people tell stories, they always start with, 'With Kanda's blessing on my lips'."

She'd taken a few steps towards Noburi, blindfold held in front of her with both hands, Satsuko left to stand against the wall.

"The people of Isan don't really celebrate birthdays the way you do. But we do celebrate coming of age, even if it would be weird to do it at fifteen. When an Isanite comes of age, usually we ask for the blessing of our ancestor among Akio's companions. If we're allowed. But every now and again, someone outside the Inoue asks for Kanda's blessing to be a storyteller. It's a very honourable role, but it's also one of the most demanding, and if you don't follow the proper forms when you tell your stories, you'll get cursed and shrivel up and die."

She took another step forward.

"Noburi, when you talk, the world grows a little warmer, and I can almost see colours. When I see through your eyes, everything is close enough to touch. When you tell stories, I can be someone else, somewhere else, even if it's only for a little while. You can hunt, and you can make, but you are not a hunter or a maker. When you shape words, they can become something holy—a power that connects, a salve that takes away pain, a bridge across the ravine that separates us from the worlds that could be."

Another step, and now she was within arm's reach.

"Properly speaking, it's not my place to do this. I don't even know the ritual, since I never got one. But the people who are supposed to do this turned their backs on Akio's teachings long ago, and I hope they spend eternity being torn to pieces on the Naraka Path, then being sewn back together just long enough to make them hope that this the last time before they get reincarnated somewhere better, then being torn to pieces again, over and over, so I think it's OK for me to take their place.

"Gōketsu Noburi, this blindfold is the gift of Kanda Yukari, who was blinded in Akio's defence, and who learned to see worlds free from the taint of our own. Please accept it. I think it's the right way to thank you for who you are, and the right way to end this."
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Velorien said:
Yuno had an ominous feeling about today. Had it really been an innocent social occasion like Hazō was pretending, would he have made a point of wearing an outfit so in line with the basics of Isanese decency, with the green rosette to acknowledge that he was having a private meal with a married woman (even if having Satsuko as a chaperone simplified matters enormously)? Would the table be set up according to proper etiquette, with the chopsticks exactly a centimetre apart on a white rest and the left shutter on the nearest window half-open while the other remained closed? The more she looked, the more suspicious Yuno grew. Were the mistakes natural or deliberate? The yellow cushion for Satsuko followed the proper forms of a child's seat, but Satsuko was not only older than either of them, but older than Isan itself, having been retrieved from one of Ui's secret caches shortly after the founding of the village.
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Shrooms said:
Maybe green means you're pursuing someone you aren't yet in a relationship with, compared to the other ribbon just showing that you are single
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Not going to lie, I wonder if Yuno (in her Isanese capacity as Hazou's Formal Friend) will broach the subject with Hazou.

YUNO: "Hey Hazou? Snowflake's been wearing that green ribbon for a while. And the way she's been looking at you for more than 2.8 seconds? Scandalous!"

HAZOU: "Yeah, I think Snowflake's green ribbon contrasts nicely with Kei's darkly-colored wardrobe. As for the 'staring...' well, I guess?"

YUNO: "Hazou, as your Official Friend and sister-in-law to Snowflake, I have to ask... What are your intentions toward her?"

HAZOU: "?!"
 
Velorien said:
I'm not sure how to interpret this. Who is the intended recipient of the note, whom is it meant to be left with, and what is it supposed to contain? Right now, I am seeing either "[leave a note for someone] [with Kei]", which doesn't make sense since Kei is about to leave with Hazō or "[leave a note] [for someone with Kei]", which doesn't make sense either.
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Sorry, I completely forgot about this. I think @Paperclipped can explain this better than I, but I think the intention is that we leave a note for a trusted someone (e.g., Akane) to give to Kei if we can't find her.
 
RandomOTP said:
Not going to lie, I wonder if Yuno (in her Isanese capacity as Hazou's Formal Friend) will broach the subject with Hazou.

YUNO: "Hey Hazou? Snowflake's been wearing that green ribbon for a while. And the way she's been looking at you for more than 2.8 seconds? Scandalous!"

HAZOU: "Yeah, I think Snowflake's green ribbon contrasts nicely with Kei's darkly-colored wardrobe. As for the 'staring...' well, I guess?"

YUNO: "Hazou, as your Official Friend and sister-in-law to Snowflake, I have to ask... What are your intentions toward her?"

HAZOU: "?!"
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That is a subject that must be approached carefully, as yuno would probably execute Hazou on snowflake's, Keiko's and Akane's behalf when he inevitably starts babbling about "bodies" and "making her a real woman"
 
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Damn you'd think no one's seen anime before. Or seen or been around someone that can threaten them. Stern words are absolutely enough if the person speaking can kill you with the ease of ripping a thin piece of paper. And you're alone. And hurt.
 
faflec said:
*preemptive screaming in fuckup*
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As we hope to postpone Hazou's inevitable demise once more, I cannot help but wonder... what does your patented form of screaming actually sound like?

Does the pitch vary based on the exact flavor of screaming?

Is there a noticeable warble or is it a constant tone?

If the volume does change, is a overall crescendo, decrescendo, does it sound a bit like the doppler effect from a siren, or something else?

Do you strive for a specific note or series of notes?

At least one inquiring mind needs to know.
 
Today has been a poor day for spoons, and trying to write Orochimaru countermeasures while low on spoons is liable to get Kei killed. Update delayed.
 
Velorien said:
Today has been a poor day for spoons, and trying to write Orochimaru countermeasures while low on spoons is liable to get Kei killed. Update delayed.
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AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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Dictator4Hire said:
As we hope to postpone Hazou's inevitable demise once more, I cannot help but wonder... what does your patented form of screaming actually sound like?

Does the pitch vary based on the exact flavor of screaming?

Is there a noticeable warble or is it a constant tone?

If the volume does change, is a overall crescendo, decrescendo, does it sound a bit like the doppler effect from a siren, or something else?

Do you strive for a specific note or series of notes?

At least one inquiring mind needs to know.
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Sorry, I missed this.

Screaming, HDK, yes, yes, yes.
 
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