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@_The_Bomb @Paperclipped why do both of you run Anti-Byakugan seals 9 hours a day every day in your OPSEC plans? I'm fairly confident when they were originally shown we were told they didn't have the lifespan and radius for that kind of application.
Is that the case? The fact that J was able to promise Kagome fully Byakugan-proofed areas made me think otherwise. Also the underground room doesn't need to be big.
 
I want to preemptively tell Asuma about the underground sealing facility for a few reasons.
  1. We're clearing the plan with Mari first, so it will only happen if Mari doesn't think it's a horrible idea.
  2. I have zero confidence in our ability to keep the Tower from learning about it in the mid to long term. Let's be real, the Tower is absolutely going to find out about this. I'd much rather let them know in advance than have them randomly discover another underground facility and freak out.
  3. Telling the cover story to the Tower does not endanger the secret to the rest of Leaf. Much like chakra detecting seals we gave the Tower earlier, we can 100% trust the Tower not to blab about our secrets that we shared for natsec. Not if we told them instead of them discovering them on their own, that is.
  4. The Tower is probably really touchy about underground bases post-Collapse. If we tell him in advance, we won't trigger any of the many underground defenses they have (almost definitely) set up post-Collapse. I can see this preventing a big scare sometime in the future.
  5. We don't have to worry about the Tower prying as long as we say it's for clan secrets. We keep the details extremely light and only say the few sentences written down.
  6. We need to stay in the good graces of the Tower and this is a good way to sucker up without actually giving away anything.
  7. It would be a really fun seen to write! (EJ says it's an 8/10, since he has to save room at the top for rez-ing Jman)
That said, I'm open to changing my mind if someone makes a good argument. I care about the general gist of my plan far more than I do this specific aspect, so I'm willing to compromise if a lot of people in the thread don't like this.
  1. Fair point, as long as we trust in Mari's judgement at the moment...
  2. Given that FOOM is on a short timer, even getting a year's worth of time out of the existence of the secret is a good trade.
  3. Not telling them also doesn't endanger giving out the secret to the rest of Leaf. It's unclear to me why this would be a positive at all? Also, it may not leak to other clans, but ANBU almost certainly does internal espionage (see the dossiers that Mari got on other Clan Heads way back when)
  4. We can probably ask -- especially now that there's a war going on. Hazou is a Clan Head and Kei is supremely well connected, there are many avenues we could learn about it.
  5. Seems like the same as 3. Also, if they can pry at no cost to themselves (i.e. some Earth Element sensory technique), why wouldn't they? We don't ever need to know.
  6. Why would this make them like us any more? Ordinarily I would say "Hey, we're keeping secrets from you," to be a negative, but in ninjaland where that's the expectation, I guess it's neutral. Except for maybe looking dumb for acknowledging the secret's existence? Same way that Kagome can't pass Deceit checks by just clamping down super hard.
  7. Fair. Though maybe it would be fun for foot-in-mouth reasons? This one is pretty ironclad.
Suffice to say, I don't think that revealing our FOOM-facility's existence to Asuma is a good thing. Really, why would it be? If we don't tell anyone, then they find out the facility's existence, then we're at the point where we would be if we just told them about the facility's existence. No one will think bad of us for trying to keep a secret -- ninja. However, if not telling people somehow prevents them from learning about the facility's existence, we've won completely for free.

Revealing it intentionally is taking a loss, where not doing so gives us another battlefield to try to win on while still being able to safely retreat to the "people know but we are keeping contents top secret" level of play.
 
Yeah, echoing Paper's post here and my own musings on the OPSEC stuff but my main hangups with the currently leading FOOM OPSEC plan are:

1: Using "seal research" as our main cover story for the underground facility. Especially because this plan has us telling Asuma we are constructing a seal research facility underground. That is extremely suspect given that...you don't do that? It's just very blatantly a lie that we raise to Asuma's attention for no reason imo.
Velorien's very definitive and explicit and very citable and clear statement on the matter
You also don't need to construct a giant facility to make a storage room if that's how we try to justify it, IE storing notes. Especially since Sealmasters can....seal up their notes? I would presume most of them do that anyways to keep them organized. They'd have plenty of storage scrolls on hand.

2: Notifying Asuma that we have some kind of secret. Clans are not obligated to share that they have a clan secret. If Asuma asks, which he should be avoiding where possible due to clan privileges/precedent, then the excuses can come into play. It sets a very bad precedent for him to try and force us to reveal what we're doing on our estate. Also note that we are not in Leaf proper so these concerns that we're going to run into anti-Collapse measures are minimal, imo. But really, it shouldn't even get to the point of Asuma asking. If Mari catches wind of any kind of information leak, that's when she intentionally leaks one of our cover stories, as happens in @Paperclipped 's OPSEC plan
 
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I am very tired right now but I can see some logic to your arguments. I'll take a look in the morning to see if there's any way for me to address your concerns while keeping the spirit of my plan. Expect a much longer response tomorrow.
 
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The effects and abilities of Shadow Clone are not secret (in Leaf at least). Naruto's Shadow Clone skills and ability to learn quickly are public knowledge in Leaf if I understand correctly. I mean he took Chuunin exams a year after graduating and passed. He's just considered the exception to the rule, most people don't have the resolve to do what he does with clones, they get sick.

The Shadow clones abilities are a secret, especially the memorie transfer:

He raised both hands, gesturing for the genin to calm down. "Hang on, let me do the rundown. First of all, Shadow Clone is a top-secret jutsu of Leaf. Sure, people outside the village know that it exists, but I'm not sure any not-Leaf people know that the clones are fully intelligent, or that they transfer memories. Even inside the village, we keep that information pretty tight. You are not to talk about it with anyone aside from the people in this room and Shikaku. Even if they have a written document with my signature on it saying that it's okay to talk to them, you do not talk to anyone about Shadow Clone except for this family and Shikaku. Clear?"

Covertly discuss arranging for Naruto learning Ghost Scales, at Kei's discretion, and if Naruto swears secrecy. He learns quickly and it increases survivability of clones. Could ask Tower for resources to buy it for Naruto. Kei's call. .

Again, GS isn't a secret, we're juyt not allowed to share it outside of Goketsu without permission. And, who cares anyway? Naruto is already a high-priority target, Mist came with 3 S-rank ninja and a dozend jonin to abduct him.

Shadow clone users and some Leaf bloodlines are way bigger targets for abduction/termination than people with GS.

...Actually, Kei has probably a big target on her back. Mori bloodline, Nara secrets, Pangolin scroll and jutsu and the Shadow clone.


New Summoners won't have many contracts. Value of Scroll makes them vulnerable high priority target on front lines. Proposals:

This depends on the Clan, the summoners negotiation skills and their CP reserves. Asuma probably expects us to have useful summonings already or to able to quickly make them right now. One of the conditions during the contest for getting the Dog scroll was being able to make contacts with useful summons:

The Summoning Scroll prize is predicated on the Summons being useful to Leaf. Being 'unable to use' the summoning scroll means that you cannot get through the summoning training in a timeframe that Asuma finds acceptable, or that the Boss rejects you, or that you are unable to make useful contracts in a timely way, or that you refuse to use your summons for Hokage-assigned missions, etc. In any of these cases you will be required to step down as Summoner and return the scroll to the Hokage to be given to someone else.

Of course, Asuma isn't going to take the scroll away right now, but that's his expectations. Being able to communicate long distance is pretty useful, but for Noburi that means that he can use a Toad as guard. Him staying in Leaf means he can only supply chakra to the summoners, not other ninja.

And our strategy right now should definitly be "get as many Wakahisa/Minawa (the Hot spring guys) as quickly and soon as possible". Same with getting Isan equipped with Skywalkers and use them hopefully to suprise Rock.

edit:
Also get the Kurosawa to print us Skywalkers and supply them via the summoning network. Superior Logistics and all that.
 
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Again, GS isn't a secret, we're juyt not allowed to share it outside of Goketsu without permission. And, who cares anyway? Naruto is already a high-priority target, Mist came with 3 S-rank ninja and a dozend jonin to abduct him.

Shadow clone users and some Leaf bloodlines are way bigger targets for abduction/termination than people with GS.

...Actually, Kei has probably a big target on her back. Mori bloodline, Nara secrets, Pangolin scroll and jutsu and the Shadow clone.

Ghost scales would be a huge mecanical power boost acording to the quest macanics special for naruto that have "YES" chakra, the problem is that MFD naruto is almost as edgy as canon sasuke and is less politicaly adept than hazo, and kinda still hate him. So is less about protect naruto but rather making him more efective, at the cost of making him more efective.
 
[X] Let's Win This Shit
Word Count: 286
  1. Dispel.
  2. Have Gaku notify other Goketsu. Atomu, arrange Hazou's transportation.
  3. Meeting
    1. Don't speak until prompted, unless clarifying something.
      1. Strategy:
        1. SUMMONING
          1. New Summoners won't have many contracts. Value of Scroll makes them vulnerable high priority target on front lines. Proposals:
            1. Tower uses emergency funds to buy temporary contracts.
            2. Summoners send envoys to each other in 7th Path for instant international communication, serve as logistics instead of combat.
            3. Summoners can meet and sync up reverse Summons as an instant undetectable ambush.
            4. Make weakness a strength. We'd make excellent bait.
        2. GOKETSU
          1. Mari is one of the strongest support ninja in Leaf. She'll know more than Hazou where she's most effective.
            1. (Internally: TLitF + Shadow Clone = crowd destroyer)
          2. Noburi can instantly refill any Summoner with envoy in Toad. Suggestion: send envoys ASAP.
            1. He could heal in Leaf Hospital and use injured ninja's chakra to recharge Summoners.
            2. He could refill on the front lines. However, he would need dedicated guard.
              1. Alternatively, he remains in 7th path until Asuma retrieves him for refills, or set a schedule.
          3. Atomu, Reo, Mai are best as messengers/scouts
          4. Hazou is best as logistics or bait, unless there's a way to heal him quicker...?
          5. Kagome is cryptography expert
          6. The rest of Goketsu...should probably be front lines...
          7. Our seal reserves are at your disposal.
        3. GENERAL
          1. Rock's boldness comes from somewhere. Skywalkers? Allies?
            1. Why isn't Rock being more covert? Something's weird here.
          2. Advantage: Rock may not be aware of Skytowers, nor Chakdars.
          3. 5SB nets protect from kinetic bombardment, not firebombing.
  4. Kei
    1. Covertly discuss arranging for Naruto learning Ghost Scales, at Kei's discretion, and if Naruto swears secrecy. He learns quickly and it increases survivability of clones. Could ask Tower for resources to buy it for Naruto. Kei's call. .
Continue not to be a fan of Naruto Ghost Scales. Otherwise...
  • Can we secure the Wakahisa fishkeeper on the estate? Both to ensure that they don't do anything treasonous and to ensure that they don't get lynched.
  • Noburi's refilling capacity on the front lines is not amazing, since he'd have to drain from somewhere and every CP is valuable...
    • The more useful variant of this is draining from captured ninja.
    • Doubles as a highly effective knockout for transport back to Leaf.
  • Can we not volunteer Mari? Asuma might order her to fight, but let's not be the one who un-retires her.
  • Let's not give them all our seals. We can make this more explicit. Skywalkers, implosion seals, Kagome Goo Bombs, etc
  • I assume most of the "why" stuff will be covered in the meeting, but can't hurt
  • Should we propose tactical bombing of their capital?
 
I love tje fact that the hivemind reaction to the start of a war is "oh indiscriminate murrder, finaly something easy to deal with"
 
I would like to note that "Sensible, smart and conservative" strategies will end in a lot of dead people. I'm talking about our people:Mari, Akane(If on the front line), ect. If we have any paradigm shift idea, it's now or never(Maybe not this update, but soonish), if we don't want another Jiraiya, a lot more than one Jiraiya. This is ninja war, and in ninja war, a lot of people die.
 
This is a fork of @FaintlySorcerous (I hope you don't mind, i feel it's different enough that should probably be it's own plan) plan that is basically "Obtain information for future planmaking", without committing to a particular set of action, so that we can then establish a war plan next update with what we know.


[X] Action Plan: Every Extermination Starts with Information.
Wordcount:???

  • Estate:
    • Dispel.
    • Get list of all seals (type, quantity) on hand.
    • Follow Asuma's messenger immediately. Ideally, bring Mari.
    • Orders:
      • Inform core Uplift.
      • Tank up Haru. His punishment is suspended.
      • Reach out to Tsunade's organization to support civilian aid efforts.
  • Asuma:
    • Do a lot of listening. Desired information:
      • Why do we think Rock is attacking?
      • What has allowed them to mount successful attacks?
      • What are Leaf's short- and medium-term strategic goals? (Reclaiming villages, stopping assaults, etc.)
      • Does Rock have skywalkers? Skytowers?
      • Does Rock appear to have any allies?
      • Mission status of Akane/Yuno - not looking to pull them back from the front lines, but knowing where they are would be good.
      • Note: we aren't going to push for any of that information - Asuma presumably knows we want it and will dispense it as he feels appropriate.
      • General attitude: compliance and openness.
      • The Goketsu have low-cost Summons in each other's territory and can be used for instantaneous and secure communication. The Conclave may serve a similar purpose.
 
[X] Action Plan: Every Extermination Starts with Information.

[X] FOOM OPSEC: There Is No Kill Like OVERKILL

For the FOOM OPSEC plan I feel like we should default to not talking about Asuma unless asked/we're talking about something where its relevant. We're not expected to give information about clan secrets as long as those clan secrets aren't treasonous.
 
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Continue not to be a fan of Naruto Ghost Scales. Otherwise...
  • Can we secure the Wakahisa fishkeeper on the estate? Both to ensure that they don't do anything treasonous and to ensure that they don't get lynched.
  • Noburi's refilling capacity on the front lines is not amazing, since he'd have to drain from somewhere and every CP is valuable...
    • The more useful variant of this is draining from captured ninja.
    • Doubles as a highly effective knockout for transport back to Leaf.
  • Can we not volunteer Mari? Asuma might order her to fight, but let's not be the one who un-retires her.
  • Let's not give them all our seals. We can make this more explicit. Skywalkers, implosion seals, Kagome Goo Bombs, etc
  • I assume most of the "why" stuff will be covered in the meeting, but can't hurt
  • Should we propose tactical bombing of their capital?
[X] Let's Win This Shit
Word Count: 288
  1. Dispel.
  2. Have Gaku notify other Goketsu. Atomu, arrange Hazou's transportation.
  3. Meeting
    1. Don't speak until prompted, unless clarifying something.
      1. Strategy:
        1. SUMMONING
          1. New Summoners have fewer contracts. Value of Scroll makes them vulnerable high priority targets. Proposals:
            1. Summoners send envoys to each other in 7th Path for instant international communication, serve as logistics instead of combat.
            2. Tower uses emergency funds to buy temporary contracts.
            3. Summoners can meet and sync up reverse Summons as an instant undetectable ambush.
            4. Make weakness a strength. We'd make excellent bait.
        2. GOKETSU
          1. (If Asuma unretires her,)Mari is among the strongest support ninja in Leaf. She'll know more than Hazou where she's most effective.
            1. (Internally: TLitF + Shadow Clone = crowd destroyer)
          2. Noburi can refill any Summoner with envoy in Toad. Suggestion: send envoys ASAP.
            1. He could heal in Leaf Hospital,use patients' chakra to recharge Summoners.
            2. He could drain captures on front lines. However, he needs dedicated guard. Purchase a Jonin Summon?
              1. Alternatively, he's in 7th path until Asuma retrieves him for refills, or set a schedule.
          3. Atomu, Reo, Mai are best as messengers/scouts
          4. Hazou's best as logistics or bait, unless he could be healed quicker...?
          5. Kagome's a cryptography expert
          6. The rest of Goketsu...should probably be front lines...
          7. Volunteer explosives, implosion seals, Goo bombs, Skywalkers, etc.
        3. GENERAL
          1. Rock's boldness comes from somewhere. Skywalkers? Allies?
            1. Why isn't Rock being more covert? Something's weird here.
          2. Advantage: Rock may not be aware of Skytowers, nor Chakdars.
          3. 5SB nets protect from kinetic bombardment, not firebombing.
          4. What of Mist ambassadors? (Wakahisa Piscitist, Ami)
  4. Kei
    1. Covertly discuss arranging for Naruto learning Ghost Scales, at Kei's discretion, if Naruto swears secrecy. He learns quickly and it increases survivability of clones. Could ask Tower for resources to buy it for Naruto. Kei's call.
I'm not a huge fan of Naruto Ghost Scales either but it could mean the difference between a Clone popping and not killing a Jonin vs. surviving a glancing blow and finishing a Jonin off. I think it's become worth it, knowing that this conflict could last weeks or even months. It's been pointed out that he likely already has an armor jutsu though so he may not need it, which is also fine.

  • I assume most of the "why" stuff will be covered in the meeting, but can't hurt
I don't really have the word count. I could go over if everyone is okay with that, but I expect to get most of this information anyways like you said. Alternatively, we could ask the QMs afterward if we still have any unanswered questions, hopefully avoiding MEETING SYNDROME by using your suggestion and getting actionable info between chapters. Up to yall, lemme know your thoughts

  • Should we propose tactical bombing of their capital?
I don't mind including this, but how would you word this? Just write a sentence and I can paste it in
 
I don't think bombing the capital is as effective as people think it will be. All it will do is causing remaining rock ninja to fight harder.
 
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