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Clarification: Are there penalties to tunneling by hand that aren't mentioned in this? It sounds like Kisame, who would have high Physique and presumably a less-than-high tunneling technique, would be better suited physically digging his way out than using a ninjutsu; yet this seems counter-intuitive to my belief that tunneling techniques generally work faster than physical digging.
My first-pass expectation is that the penalty is applied to whatever the baseline speed of the task would be. So, since digging by hand is obviously a lot slower than using a jutsu, even if your Physique is totally unpenalized it's still not a given that it'd end up faster than the jutsu.

If the jutsu takes one round to use and digging by hand takes an hour, the jutsu would need to lose by quite a lot of shifts to become a worse option than by-hand. In practice, the only way to realistically bypass Iron Earth would be to have your fast method of tunneling be high enough level to beat the TN.

Edit:
Frankly, all I really care about at this moment is whether or not the Iron Earth would inhibit this:
Seems pretty simple to me. If Konan attacks the ground with her paper jutsu attack, is she gonna roll higher than our TN?
 
I can take this over to QM chat and we can hash it out if you actually care, but do you? Is it a thing that's likely to come up and, if so, under what circumstances? Knowing that would help shape the discussion.
This was more of a "huh, this seems counter-intuitive to what I would expect things to work out". Just making a comment moreso than asking for an actual ruling one way or another.
Seems pretty simple to me. If Konan attacks the ground with her paper jutsu attack, is she gonna roll higher than our TN?
Also, if Konan already has paper underground when the rune activates, is her paper/consciousness trapped underground until she can tunnel herself out?
 
This was more of a "huh, this seems counter-intuitive to what I would expect things to work out". Just making a comment moreso than asking for an actual ruling one way or another.

Also, if Konan already has paper underground when the rune activates, is her paper/consciousness trapped underground until she can tunnel herself out?
No, Konan just ends up Grued away. "Jiraiya only ever taught 2 kids in Rain, and they're both dead for one reason or another? Blue haired sealmaster girl? Mari laughs and tells Hazou that such dreams are normal for a boy his age, just to he sure to wash his bedroll after."
 
Also, if Konan already has paper underground when the rune activates, is her paper/consciousness trapped underground until she can tunnel herself out?
I assume that, just as Konan can rapidly take control of new paper, she can also ditch existing paper as long as she still has enough to maintain her body. If we trapped her paper underground and then destroyed all her other papers, though …
 
[X] Action Plan: Under the Knife
Word Count: 299
  • Orochimaru
    • Hazou thinks we should involve Leaf. We stand better odds against all of Akatsuki, fully prepared, than most of Akatsuki, with less preparation.
    • Is Naruto's contribution that useful? He's incredibly vulnerable to Itachi, and there'll be many clones present. It may make sense to Do we leave him behind to throw off Akatsuki.?
    • We guess Sasori will need Kisame to supply chakra, since rift-opening seals are chakra-intensive.
    • What's the recovery time of the surgery?
      • Hazou has been regularly overdrawning his coils attempting to Summon Cannai, could that cause issues?
    • Ideally, we could use a couple of days to preshape runic blanks and grind veterancy for the assault. This could coincide with recovery from surgery, if it's not too invasive.
    • Debrief Orochimaru on the nature of the Great Seal's degradation, just in case.
    • Set a rendezvous for the surgery and dispel the SC
  • Team Uplift
    • Summarize the meeting.
    • Orochimaru doesn't know that you're aware of runecrafting. He must not infer this. Behave as such.
    • Mari, thoughts on Endou's viability as a contact? Could be sympathetic, although it could have been a act.
    • Sanity-check the rest of the plan with the team
    • If Orochimaru said that overdrawing wouldn't cause significant issues with the surgery, attempt to Summon Cannai when the Medium clears
  • Cannai
    • Go to the Seventh Path, tell Cannai the timeline for the Riftwar.
    • We can stop sequestering Dogs who have contact with Hazou, and soon end the no-information-passing oaths regarding refusing to pass information to Hazou.
    • Ask if there are other powerful Dogs that might agree to would fight in the Riftwar? Kakashi's personal Summon perhaps. She fought against the Dragons.
    • Is he willing to approach them on our behalf, or take us to meet them facilitate a meeting?
  • Attend the surgery
    • Download the runic imprints runes and accept the substrate.
    • Would Orochimaru be willing for Noburi to assist him? Noburi is a skilled medic, and Tsunade helped him design He and Tsunade designed bloodline-related skills to assist more senior surgeons
    • While Prime recovers from the surgery, SCs can shape runic blanks.
OK, this should be ~298 words. Let me know if I made any mistakes. Also, is this good formatting for edit suggestions.
 
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In short: Hazou would not be willing to create manuals for people to learn runecrafting from, whether or not he supplies blanks to go with it.

Briefly expanding Hazou's model:
  • Learning runecrafting without a teacher is suicidal.
    • Learning any form of sealing without a teacher would be suicidal as well, for the simple reason that it's easier to get to the point where a sealmaster can attempt an infusion, than to get to the point where the infusion can be performed successfully.
    • The reason for this is roughly that there are an infinite number of mistakes a student can make, and the student won't notice them by default.
    • However, unlike sealing, a runecrafter that causes an infusion failure doesn't just die, but probably causes something unimaginably horrible in the process.
  • However, the Great Seal is an exception. Whether by accident or by design, it presents such an incredibly detailed, thorough exemplar of three-dimensional sealing (throughout its entire, plateau-spanning mass) that a sufficiently skilled sealmaster could, with several months of study and access to the right materials/ninjutsu, reverse engineer runecrafting from scratch.
    • Previously, this study would have been nearly impossible to conduct with the Dragons present.
    • Hazou managed to download the Great Seal in the Iron Nerve, and thereby managed to compress the months of study into a couple weeks – once he had the right materials of course.

Written materials, blanks, and burned out runes cannot qualify as sufficient material to learn runecrafting, in the sense of producing a successful infusion. However, materials like this could potentially get a sealmaster to the point of attempting a runic infusion, and that could be catastrophic. Therefore, Hazou is unwilling to make such guides.

For the particular case of Kagome learning runecrafting after Hazou's death, Kagome could likely attempt to learn it via the Great Seal.
Thank you for your full and thorough response to my inquiry! I really appreciate it. In fact…you may want to check thread tonight. (Yeah, that's not going to be tonight. Sorry.)
 
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@Sir Stompy
suggested edits.
I went up to <399 words because there are a lot of things to be covered, and getting things right at this juncture is much more impactful than the few points of bonus xp

It might be possible to get this back down to 299, by cutting the extra summons talk, the Endou talk, and triming down the WC of the line wher we discuss naruto, but I'm out time.

[X] Action Plan: Under the Knife
Word Count: 395
  • Orochimaru
    • Hazou thinks we should involve Leaf. We stand better odds against all of Akatsuki, fully prepared, than most of Akatsuki, with less preparation.
    • Is Naruto's contribution that useful? He's incredibly vulnerable to Itachi, and there'll be many clones present. It may make sense to leave him behind to throw off Akatsuki.
    • What's the recovery time of the surgery?
      • Hazou has been regularly overdrawing his coils attempting to Summon Cannai, could that cause issues?
    • Ideally, we could use a couple of days to preshape runic blanks and grind veterancy for the assault. This could coincide with recovery from surgery, if it's not too invasive.
      • We'd ideally use 32+ metric tons of substrate, can you make that much?
    • Do SC have Hazou's blood for purposes of Hidan's senses?
      • If so, wouldn't they be unaffected by a bioseal concealing Prime's blood?
    • Debrief Orochimaru on the nature of the Great Seal's degradation, just in case.
    • Set a rendezvous for the surgery and dispel the SC
  • Team Uplift
    • Summarize the meeting.
    • Orochimaru doesn't know that you're aware of runecrafting. He must not infer this. Behave as such.
    • Mari, thoughts on Endou's viability as a contact? Could be sympathetic, although it could have been a act.
    • Sanity-check the rest of the plan with the team
    • If Orochimaru said that overdrawing wouldn't cause major issues with the surgery, attempt to Summon Cannai when the Medium clears
  • Cannai
    • Go to the Seventh Path, tell Cannai the timeline for the Riftwar.
    • We can stop sequestering Dogs who have contact with Hazou, and soon end the oaths regarding refusing to pass information to Hazou.
    • Ask if there are other powerful Dogs that might agree to fight in the Riftwar?
      • Kakashi's personal Summon perhaps. She fought against the Dragons.
      • Dogs with a strong mental attacks (for Itachiclones)
      • A troop of jounin-level fighters with relatively low CR
      • Dogs with powerful lockdown effects for Hidan
    • Is he willing to approach them on our behalf, or facilitate a meeting?
  • Noburi
    • Can you contract a toad with counters to Kisame's water jutsu?
  • Attend the surgery
    • If Cannai was successfully summoned, AND the blood-hiding bioseal might be unneeded (either because SC are bloodless, or because SCs won't inherit bioseals), end the update.
    • Download the runic imprints and accept the substrate.
    • Would Orochimaru be willing for Noburi to assist him?
    • While Prime recovers from the surgery, SCs can shape runic blanks.
 
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@Left-Hand Mutant, perhaps having a bullet for Noburi to search for esoteric (anti-Itachi) attacks might be worth including in your suggestions as well?

It's been suggested that giving suggestions will make this easier on QM spoons, and get more useful dogs.
This is much more "if we have spare wordcount", but suggestions include:
  • A troop of jounin-jevel dogs with low CR relative to their combat skills
  • Dogs with powerful mentally damaging attacks (for Itachi's SC)
  • Dogs with strong single-target lockdown effects(to incapacitate Hidan)
  • (Longshot) A dog that can limit Kisame's battlefield-scale water jutsu somehow.
I will note that the Toad Clan is considers to be one of the clans with the most powerful ninjutsu. Perhaps Noburi shoudl also try to search for specialists in esoteric attacks?

EDIT WITH SOURCE:
Furthermore, the Crow Clan's ninjutsu is not particularly powerful as far as Seventh Path ninjutsu go, compared to clans such as Boar, Toad, or Condor.
 
@Sir Stompy
suggested edits.
I went up to <399 words because there are a lot of things to be covered, and getting things right at this juncture is much more impactful than the few points of bonus xp

It might be possible to get this back down to 299, by cutting the extra summons talk, the Endou talk, and triming down the WC of the line wher we discuss naruto, but I'm out time.
I don't like most of this summon suggestion stuff and don't plan on including it unless someone can make a convincing argument this won't piss off Cannai.
 
I don't like most of this summon suggestion stuff and don't plan on including it unless someone can make a convincing argument this won't piss off Cannai.
It certainly would be quite dishonest to ask him to help us take a bunch of people off the front line without telling him that if they get Taken Out by Itachi, it might be permanent.
 
I think in the interest of WC I'll end the update after the Summon attempt and not do the surgery (which makes the name of the action plan outdated but such is life)
 
@Left-Hand Mutant, perhaps having a bullet for Noburi to search for esoteric (anti-Itachi) attacks might be worth including in your suggestions as well?
@Left-Hand Mutant you could check my plan edit suggestions for general WC trimming ideas.
Sounds like you two should date collaborate your proposed edits.
I won't be at a computer to do planwork before the vote closes.

I don't like most of this summon suggestion stuff and don't plan on including it unless someone can make a convincing argument this won't piss off Cannai.
Sure. I'd don't see why it would, but it's by far the least important bit of my suggested edits.

I think in the interest of WC I'll end the update after the Summon attempt and not do the surgery (which makes the name of the action plan outdated but such is life)
👍
 
This post (1 of 3) reserved in case we ever want to add more parts to the ravening but don't want to have to rejigger update order.
This post (2 of 3) reserved in case we ever want to add more parts to the ravening.
This post (3 of 3) reserved in case we ever want to add more parts to the ravening.
I just thought I'd remind EJ that at any time the QMs could post more Ravening

Huh, I was looking at the list of Crusade survivors but there's no Dog on there besides Cannai.
There was a powerful Dog representative at the battle. Cannai said she was Kakashi's most powerful summon. She survived.
 
Can someone explain how it's believable that the team wouldn't know about runes after months of travelling together? Is the assumption from Oro that Hazou just didn't talk about them and did the tests out of earshot and sight for them?
 
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