- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Our birthday parties have been known to make hostage-takers sweat!
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
"Of course you have to do the dance!"
Fortunately, it does imply that he survived, which is a plus.
I still think that we should be hacking Jiraiya back. *grumble grumble*
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
What do you mean, "again"? Ami had never proposed any marriages.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm actually rather indifferent on the project of bringing Jiraiya back. There's no hint that true ressurection feasible, or that we'd be able to bring him back as the person he was right before his death. We could very easily bring him back with the memory of his 12 year old self, or we could bring Jiraiya back at the age that he died, plus however long he spent in the afterlife. And a battle as traumatic as the BotG would leave huge mental scars... not to mention how remembering the afterlife (or even just knowing that there was, indeed, an afterlife at all) might change him beyond recognition. We could very well bring Jiraiya back just to have him hate us for pulling him out of paradise and back into the Painted World, or even desperately thankful and a shattered shell of his former self --if we go with one of the more common binary paradise/damnation afterlife belief systems.
There are so many ways that resurrecting Jiraiya could go wrong, I'm hesitant to vote for any plan that involves true resurrection at all.
Not to mention the ethical implications. Jiraiya never gave his living consent to be brought back from death (unless Orochimaru knows something we don't, which... he might come to think of it) so even if we brought him back from moments before death or plucked him from the afterlife (thus ensuring a continuation of consciousness), we don't know how he'd react. Jiraiya might have viewed death as a pleasant resting bench after a long hike. Or he might have viewed it as a mudfilled pit he'd rather go senile than rest in. Those kinds of things are deeply held beliefs and I'm not even sure if Mari would know his thoughts on it.
Granted, Hazou is his own character beyond the hivemind's votes, so Hazou might very well bring Jiraiya back anyway. Or Hazou might not even think about these concerns at all, and just assume that everyone thinks that life is better than death. Hazou's gotten a lot better at respecting agency, but when the topic of this comes up, I could easily see a teenage magical ninja living life in a militaristic death world assuming things.
It was a joke on my part. Ami sent a marriage proposal way back when we first met her as a political ploy to accomplish... something in Mist. While we panicked, the marriage offer accomplished its mysterious goal and Ami withdrew it, delighting in seeing Hazou's poorly-concealed alarm.
Edit: Of course, I wouldn't be against Hazou entering into a relationship with Ami. It would actually be interesting from a story-perspective while fleshing out her character a bit more and adding a little seasoning to Hazou's personal character arc. But the same could be said for Ino, for Akane, or even no one at all. The only difference is the type of development, and I find myself in the rare position that, whatever might happen in Hazou's personal romance arc, I'll be happy ^.^
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That much was evident after@Velorien 's update.
He even said as much.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
You can never be sure with ninja, you know. He could be Zabuza using a -- [visual depiction of a VHS skipping] -- disguise kit.That much was evident after@Velorien 's update.
The multiverse literally just showed us, as blessed by the avatar of a literal god, that the dead can be returned intact.
As for the ethical concerns, there is only one choice which he can easily and unilaterally reverse if he disagrees with it.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
Ooh we should get Mari a textile industry for her birthday.
The basic process for Rayon is relatively simple.
There's three major conceptual roadblocks that we need Hazou to figure out.
Edit: Also we need to start putting together a moonshot protocol. Give a bunch of clever people a really hard problem, let them experiment, have others looking through their work for smaller useful things they can extract.
Take the flight stuff, they should be pretty close to a notion of standardized weights and measures.
Basically, you need to reward a team for:
Fake edit: Actually can we stick the above in a plan somewhere, so it's becomes a heuristic Hazou uses to judge his project teams?
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[X] Let EJ write + Project management musings
I think these basically pro-forma votes are a good place to have Hazou learn about new ways to frame an issue, set new big-picture goals, or change his mindset.
It will make a difference when we next interact with the skyslider team, and get them to go in the direction we want without needing us to waste updates micromanaging.
In particular, we've heard about them tossing various gliders around and seeing what they do and I've been really wanting them to figure out how to make a glider that will consistently fly a certain way even if that way isn't immediately useful. (Say, crash but in a tight spiral)
Also I want to see them try to come up with thoughtful guesses for what a particular glider design will end up doing before they build it.
I expect there are similarly useful things we could get Hazou to think about to improve the Gouketsu school system, how he approaches summoning practice, or how he interacts with certain people.
Just look at how much that plan does without wasting word count at a point where we actually need fine control of Hazou:
The basic process for Rayon is relatively simple.
- Purify wood into wood fiber (already a part of the existing papermaking industry)
- Dissolve the wood fiber into a strong base (lye)
- Get a vat of strong acid (oil of vitriol is one option, etching acid is another.)
- Pump the dissolved fiber solution through a showerhead into the acid bath.
- As the base and acid react to cancel out the cellulose will reassemble.
- Pull the fibers out of the acid bath steadily.
- Wash the fibers.
There's three major conceptual roadblocks that we need Hazou to figure out.
- Acids and bases both dissolve things, but mix them together I'm the right amounts and they become neutral,
- Hmm, we make rope out of smaller fibers, and we thread out of even smaller fibers. Maybe some of the fibers we use are made of even smaller fibers.
- Hmm, for paper we separate the fibers in wood and reassemble it. We should see whether dissolving stuff is like our separation step but smaller.
Edit: Also we need to start putting together a moonshot protocol. Give a bunch of clever people a really hard problem, let them experiment, have others looking through their work for smaller useful things they can extract.
Take the flight stuff, they should be pretty close to a notion of standardized weights and measures.
Basically, you need to reward a team for:
- Doing things that weren't possible before and are vaguely going towards the goal.
- Being able to consistently do a thing that wasn't consistent before.
- Having explainable ways to figure out what might happen in situations that are just outside your technical grasp.
Fake edit: Actually can we stick the above in a plan somewhere, so it's becomes a heuristic Hazou uses to judge his project teams?
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[X] Let EJ write + Project management musings
- On or off-screen have Hazou adopt a new research management philosophy.
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- Otherwise let EJ do what he thinks best with the update, we trust him.
I think these basically pro-forma votes are a good place to have Hazou learn about new ways to frame an issue, set new big-picture goals, or change his mindset.
It will make a difference when we next interact with the skyslider team, and get them to go in the direction we want without needing us to waste updates micromanaging.
In particular, we've heard about them tossing various gliders around and seeing what they do and I've been really wanting them to figure out how to make a glider that will consistently fly a certain way even if that way isn't immediately useful. (Say, crash but in a tight spiral)
Also I want to see them try to come up with thoughtful guesses for what a particular glider design will end up doing before they build it.
I expect there are similarly useful things we could get Hazou to think about to improve the Gouketsu school system, how he approaches summoning practice, or how he interacts with certain people.
Just look at how much that plan does without wasting word count at a point where we actually need fine control of Hazou:
- It teaches scientific method to those who need to learn it, even if it's not super explicit.
- Gives Hazou a reward framework to use to get people to do exploratory science efficiently.
- Structures the above in a way that doesn't require us to somehow import a few centuries of philosophy of science that a more direct framing would need.
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- Location
- The state of Paranoia
Get a bunch of alchemists. Pay them to do the standard alchemist tinkering with chemicals. Make them write it all down. That should get us the acids and bases part, at least.
Edit:
That would work really well with an alchemist project too. Then we could use that project to justify knowing any chemical reactions we need for a new project.
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
We know that people like Itachi died in BotG and then were resurrected by Pein. Sure, it relied on Rinnehax, but it proved that you can indeed kill a person and then true resurrect them (unless you subscribe to the theory that Pein just branched his consciousness into the Akatsuki corpses, which I find doubtful given the events at Todoroki) under some circumstances.
We saw Daizen get crushed by lava and appear physically intact in some other realm on the other side of a sealing-failure portal. He seemed to continually respawn in that realm every time his physical body was destroyed. This could theoretically be a sealing failure unrelated to death, but my odds are on it being the (a?) literal afterlife. If this is the case, then we know that in the (a?) afterlife you gain a physical body at least based on your body from when you were alive, and that body can be physically extracted to the mortal world again without falling apart (in the short-term, at least). Thus, if what we observed was Daizen dying and appearing in the afterlife, then we can believe to a moderate level of confidence that Jiraiya, after he died, appeared somewhere in the afterlife with a physical form that, if we could find and bring it through a portal connecting our two realms, would true-resurrect Jiraiya.
As for what it's like in the afterlife, we can observe that the resurrected Akatsuki members do not seem to be significantly affected by their death experiences, and that Daizen was having a bad time but only as would be expected from being stuck in a death loop. While you could suggest that Akatsuki weren't dead long enough or that Daizen was affected more than we know, it's still likely imo that Jiraiya would desire to return to life so he can protect Leaf and return to his family. And as Lailoken said, if not then it wouldn't be hard for him to return to the previous state of affairs.
- Location
- Liverpool
I would, mostly because Kagome needs to be working on decoding stuff because Asuma is one bad interaction on a bad day away from soaking Hazō in barbecue sauce and tossing him into the forest of death.
This thread scares me sometimes. But it's consistency is reassuring. I don't know what it's assuring me OF, but it is.
[X] Let eaglejarl write what he wants, we trust him
Skipped a few steps, but anything which brings attention to carbon disulfide or opens the door to nitrocellulose makes my inner Kagome squeal.
- Location
- Yes.
So, um...if we're timeskipping all the way towards when Hazou gets the Dog Scroll...I'm pretty sure it'll be late July.
And Noburi's birthday is August 5.
We should probably start thinking about his birthday present. Like, pronto.
Like, screaming in Kagome we are all going to die pronto.
And Noburi's birthday is August 5.
We should probably start thinking about his birthday present. Like, pronto.
Like, screaming in Kagome we are all going to die pronto.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Honestly hadn't thought about Pain's resurrections. So it's possible... I wonder if they remember what their time in the afterlife was like?
I say we put together a prototype water barrel based on the seals that we already have. Hazou and Kagome have little free time between the two of them, but since we're doing a timeskip, we could say that we woke up early or stayed up late 2 nights a week for whatever many weeks between Yasuji's First Meeting and Noburi's birthday. I mean, we had those stolen barrel seals locked away collecting dust until then, right? So those, plus whatever seals Yasuji brings, plus Noburi's seals, plus whatever seals we might steal from Yasuji could give us enough data points to chart differences and change, allowing us to replicate our own.
Other than that, the only thing I could think of is to throw the Goketsu checkbook at Noburi, make a dinner reservation at a place we know he and Yuno both like, and then tell them to go hog wild. I mean, there's not much else we can really do to help him along those lines, since Yuno's the one who makes the call between Noburi or Neji.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Get him some of Tobirama's legendary water techniques from Tsunade.
Jello_Raptor
(Confirmed Jelly)
- Location
- Left of Center
It was the earliest version of the process I could find, with some purification steps removed. I think it's enough to get a flawed version of the process producing something interesting, and the whole project management thing was included so we could delegate figuring out the details.
Like, at this point the main obstacle to the straight technological transfer stuff we want to do is the bandwidth limitation from plan sizes.
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- Location
- Yes.
Clearly we must make half-day plans.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Could we make some sort of special position in the Goketsu for Noburi? Essentially an 'I promise' sort of gift but framed much cooler since we can put it as 'I'm going to make you <cool title> of the Goketsu and that means you'll get to do <things we're promising>'.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that'd properly fit, but it sounds like an appropriately cool type of gift for him.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that'd properly fit, but it sounds like an appropriately cool type of gift for him.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Clan Heir.
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
I can just see Hazou making this his standard birthday present. And whoever ends up as the actual clan head isn't decided by merit but who had their birthday closest to when Hazou kicked the bucket.
I want to say it's out of character for Hazou, but I really can't.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
"Congratulations, Asuma, you're now my clan heir."
- Location
- Italy
[X] Let eaglejarl write what he wants, we trust him
[X] Action Plan: Noburi's Fate
[X] Action Plan: Noburi's Fate
Tua
鸡肉面条汤
- Location
- شوربة الدجاج المعكرونة
And just when Hazou was released from quarantine...