I'll have to find the damn link where Tsunade specifically claimed that.
I'll admit I misremembered that:
Tough walls are like laws, boy. Many chakra beasts take one look at them and go 'Oh, well, can't get through here, better go look elsewhere for my supper', because they don't know they can smash them to splinters with a single blow.
Still, MEW walls sound like "tough walls", not "virtually indestructible walls", so I would assume it applies.
In any case, a MEW wall is sturdy and strong. It doesn't need to be 100% effective against all chakra beast attacks to save lives.
Neither do decoy walls.
Excuse me? I never said anything about palisade walls being easy or low labor intensity for civilians. Just that we have plenty availability of wood.
Wooden walls are something civilians would be able to build, unlike granite walls, and is a fairly straightforward idea they would've been able to come up with on their own, unlike decoy walls. Since wooden walls don't exist anyway, I would assume it's because building them is not simply labor-intensive, but is altogether impractical, for some reason. No idea why that would be, though. Prevalence of weird supernaturally strong chakra trees civilians can't take down?
 
Since wooden walls don't exist anyway
The village near the Swamp of Death had a wooden palisade. I mean, it had mud and stuff, but it's main structure was wooden.
The town was impressive; the palisade was fully twelve feet high, and made of logs as thick as a man's wrist, tied together in two layers and then sealed with mud so that there wasn't the slightest crack. The gate slid on well-greased wooden rollers; there was a gap of a few inches between the bottom of the gate and the ground, but a secondary wall on the inside of the gate could be dropped down to seal even that space. There was a guard tower on either side of the gate, one at each corner of the town, and one in the middle of each wall. All guard towers held two women armed with bows, spears, and a large gong.
 
The village near the Swamp of Death had a wooden palisade. I mean, it had mud and stuff, but it's main structure was wooden.

Probably one of the better defended villages because it's so close to the swamp. Other villages might go years without dangerous threats, their defenses decay and everything goes to shit.

Or you know, angry ninja.
 
It would take a lot of work, but making walls is still something that civilians can very much do. And if it's something that can prevent their entire town from being wiped out, I would think they would do it, even if it took a lot of time.

Which still begs the question, why haven't they? It's not like civilians are stupid. They should be at least as smart as medieval peasants, who were perfectly capable of building walls. They may assume that walls won't protect against chakra beasts due to how destructive they are, but surely someone would have tried it at some point, if only to keep away the smaller ones. From there it should have spread to towns everywhere.

I think it's very likely that towns have tried walls, and it just didn't actually provide much of an advantage. Tsunade is likely falling for the same thing that the Hivemind often fails to do, thinking about why it hasn't already been done.

The question then becomes: why are walls not a significant enough advantage for civilians to have adopted them? Most likely, chakra beasts don't actually wipe out most of the villages. It would require a very hungry chakra beast, or an entire swarm of them, to wipe out an entire town. Since most towns are likely to be located in areas that at least occasionally have chakra beast extermination missions called in, that may not be very common. Instead, most towns probably are destroyed by scorch squads. Those don't care the slightest bit about walls after all.

Most chakra beast fatalities are probably from a chakra beast wandering by and snagging a civilian to munch on while they're out farming or gathering wood. Not something that walls can do much about, otherwise civilians would have already made their own walls.

*looks like most of this has already been said, but I'll still post it in case there's anything in here that hasn't been said yet*
 
Wooden walls are something civilians would be able to build, unlike granite walls, and is a fairly straightforward idea they would've been able to come up with on their own, unlike decoy walls. Since wooden walls don't exist anyway, I would assume it's because building them is not simply labor-intensive, but is altogether impractical, for some reason. No idea why that would be, though. Prevalence of weird supernaturally strong chakra trees civilians can't take down?

All of this has to be balanced against perceived cost/benefit, force of habit, culture and traditions, etc. In any case, walls and defensive structure produce nothing of value to the average farmer unless they have foresight and experience to see the value.

I'll admit I misremembered that:

Still, MEW walls sound like "tough walls", not "virtually indestructible walls", so I would assume it applies.

Neither do decoy walls.

Can we agree that 'decoy walls', 'MEW walls' all have varying level of protections balanced against costs?

Tsunade is a great woman and she has lot of experience, but she isn't an end-all be all authority on how to uplift civilians. We should test things out, and see what works, and use our own experience and analysis to determine what's the best way of doing thing.

Let's do this: We'll deploy decoy walls for the majority of villages, explaining to them it might help and strongly suggest that they should really do it.

And identify all the villages that probably need stronger walls, either palisade(in which case, we help chop woods), or MEW if it's necessary. Villages that have bigger populations have bigger values, and thus warrant more protection.

If we think, based on evidence, that more villages need better walls, then we adjust our strategy.
 
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I'm still on team exterminate all chakra beast. With multiple summoners and chakra water we can make a serious dent in it like @Lailoken suggested. Plus it's just inherently cooler and more interesting than arguing over wood or MEW walls
 
We should pay a visit to that one village we built MEW walls for before we joined Leaf. If they're all dead by now, we'll have some good evidence that scorch squads were responsible.
 
Why? Why do I do this to myself
Ah, silly me, not remembering a short post from nine months ago that referenced something from two years ago. :p

Seriously dude... Just give it a name. "Operation Sailcloth Walls" is way more memorable and clearer than "all we need to make walls is a couple storage seals."

Also, you might want to actually test some of those assumptions. I can think of three major possible failure modes off the top of my head. Not saying that it *would* fail, merely that you're being awfully confident.
 
Also, you might want to actually test some of those assumptions. I can think of three major possible failure modes off the top of my head. Not saying that it *would* fail, merely that you're being awfully confident.

Well, I did just advocate testing and basing our strategy on evidence. But if you said you found three failure points off the top of your head, we ought to test assumptions BEFORE deploying it.
 
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I'm still on team exterminate all chakra beast. With multiple summoners and chakra water we can make a serious dent in it like @Lailoken suggested. Plus it's just inherently cooler and more interesting than arguing over wood or MEW walls
I remain doubtful that even a full team of summoners with infinite chakra could put a serious dent in the chakra beast population across Fire, but I am much more confident that they'd be able to put a serious dent in strong chakra beast populations across Fire. Go to the untamed wildernesses and kill the biggest, meanest monsters around until there are none left.

The question from there is what happens if the apex predators of a region all suddenly die out. I do not have the relevant knowledge to understand whether this would create a good or bad effect for the civilians in 'safer' regions, but I expect what effect it does have will be greater in magnitude than the other strategy.

(There's also the factor that depleting populations across Fire just buys some time before chakra beasts migrate back. This is important in current circumstances, where the decline of humanity is advanced enough that we cannot afford to ignore the symptoms as we look for ways to treat the source, but we should also look for ways to treat the source so we can put together an optimal balance of slowing the decline and reducing the long-term problem)
 
the decline of humanity is advanced enough

I am still questioning this, we only have Keiko and Ami ever talking about this and they might be extremly biased because of Mori knowledge. Shikaku talked more about protecting humanity from itself, which is nice and all but not really the same.

This might be like people in the renaissance looking back and declaring the whole middle ages being only regression, which isn't totally true, more like a completely chaotic time periode. Exactly like the warring state periode.
 
I remain doubtful that even a full team of summoners with infinite chakra could put a serious dent in the chakra beast population across Fire

You'd probably want to create some easily defendable terrain (lol, ironic) first and then clear that + terraform some more, etc etc.

Itd be more feasible to have Summon Squad Alpha obliterate and/or patrol a region the size of Ba Sing Se, so that you could wall it up over time to the point where its good enough.

After that, just run around and pick up all the civilians and put them down there. Yay safe land!

Unfortunately, according to the map we don't have an island or narrow-ish peninsula solely contained in Fire, which would be ideal for that.

Maybe we can buy that bit in the ocean from sand with our infinite chocolate moniez?
 
I remain doubtful that even a full team of summoners with infinite chakra could put a serious dent in the chakra beast population across Fire, but I am much more confident that they'd be able to put a serious dent in strong chakra beast populations across Fire. Go to the untamed wildernesses and kill the biggest, meanest monsters around until there are none left.

The question from there is what happens if the apex predators of a region all suddenly die out. I do not have the relevant knowledge to understand whether this would create a good or bad effect for the civilians in 'safer' regions, but I expect what effect it does have will be greater in magnitude than the other strategy.

(There's also the factor that depleting populations across Fire just buys some time before chakra beasts migrate back. This is important in current circumstances, where the decline of humanity is advanced enough that we cannot afford to ignore the symptoms as we look for ways to treat the source, but we should also look for ways to treat the source so we can put together an optimal balance of slowing the decline and reducing the long-term problem)
Destroying the most powerful beasts may be a good idea, but it will still leave beasts that can tear through village in blink of an eye unharmed. Moreover, weaker beasts can become more powerful in power vacuum. We need a way to eradicate aggressive creatures altogether, but to pull it off we would need to be a Kage at least, if not Omni-Kage.

We need a steady stream of A/B class extermination missions to purge big threats and a lot of C class missions to deal with smaller beasts. This is nigh impossible with outside threats in form of other villages looming in.

I estimate we will need 10 to 20 years of in-universe time to reach a power level where we can command force large enough to exterminate threats consistently, not just giving a relief for a month. And that's not counting in the problem of scorch squads.

Imo we're over our heads here atm.

It doesn't mean that we should sit tight till then, but expecting to solve all world's problems in a year with resources of newly founded clan is beyond the word 'optimistic'. We can concentrate on learning the best approach while we grow though. Test which walls are better, figure out the logistics, make sure that next generation of ninja has appropriate skills and motivation...

So, how about we try to test different hypothesis now and work on best ones later?
 
Opportunity cost mostly. If we can save lives in a cool way that lets us Flex and gain reputation and extra XP that's superior to building walls. Advancing multiple goals at once will always be more valuable than advancing just one goal

I am doubtful that beast extermination will do any meaningful changes. It may be good for temporary reliefs, however.
 
I am doubtful that beast extermination will do any meaningful changes. It may be good for temporary reliefs, however.
Well like @MMKII said after you exterminate all the dangerous chakra beast in an area you build a major settlement there. That will have the effect of creating another safe zone that will protect all the smaller villages in the area.
 
Most likely, chakra beasts don't actually wipe out most of the villages. It would require a very hungry chakra beast, or an entire swarm of them, to wipe out an entire town.

It would be so much scarier if chakra beasts had a rudimentary form of intelligence that realizes that it can effectively farm villages for food as long as it keeps enough people alive.

Chakra being what it is, this might even be the case for some of the beasts.
 
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Luckily there is a publicly available jutsu that improves farmland.

That presumes that it will be cheap to use the jutsu(Is it? Who knows?), that the amount of work keeping the farmland safe is not too much, etc. Don't forget the political dimensions. All the daimyo that previously had tenants will be angry with ninja for stealing peasants, which may or may not be a problem.

I don't think it's impossible for the idea to succeed, but that I think it's much more complicated than you implied it will be.
 
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The reasons why there are settlement are where they are is because of the farmlands.
I don't think this is like medieval Europe, where all the land was already in use. As far as we know, there are huge swaths of wilderness in the EN that aren't being used for anything. Much of that is probably good for farmland. It's just that it's also crawling with chakra beasts.

That presumes that it will be cheap to use the jutsu(Is it? Who knows?), that the amount of work keeping the farmland safe is not too much, etc. Don't forget the political dimensions. All the daimyo that previously had tenants will be angry with ninja for stealing peasants, which may or may not be a problem.
That's true. We'll probably have to bribe/blackmail them to not raise a fuss, like what we did with the merchant council. Maybe we could get most of the civilians fromLeaf itself? Civilians seem to live in very overcrowded conditions within the village, and there's always plenty of people willing to risk life and limb for the possibility of a better life.
 
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