- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We are literally in Asuma's office talking about these things with Mari. We are literally asking for permission from the boss.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Potato land
Edited my plan to a point where I'm comfortable voting for it. Fully quoted below. Some commentary on the purpose of particular moves:
Asuma
I'd like to start leveraging our connection to Ren, but it's a sensitive topic with our recent treason. That's why I'm framing it as Hazou making a grudging concession to Asuma in return for being able to help Ami. The Hana bit there is almost completely aboveboard, though it should also serve to humanize Hazou in Asuma's eyes and show that he is actually loyal to family, if not his birth clan.
Yasuji
Self-explanatory. Kagome's modifications are something Wakahisa should find very useful, and it doesn't cost us much to sell then. Would easily get Asuma's permission there, too.
Akane introspection
Hazou's relationship with Akane suffered from bad power dynamics from the start, and then it only got worse until the first real stressor broke it. While Akane is good for Hazou, the reverse is not true in the slightest. He enables her worst tendencies, and doesn't realize it at all, nor is he even aware of them. The point of this section is to give him enough of an idea that something isn't right, and that the problem isn't solely his.
Mari
Mari actually does know about Akane's insecurities, and how much of her facade is exactly this. I'm hoping she'll help Hazou come to the right conclusions here. The ultimate point of all of this is for Hazou to mature emotionally. Maybe this will result in him re-igniting his relationship with Akane, and maybe not, but I think it's worthwhile either way.
Incidentally, writing this plan had me read through a bunch of older updates, and man, the contrast between that Hazou and the one from the most recent update is striking. @eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien major props for actually developing his characters through all of our bullshit and whining in such a satisfying way.
Asuma
I'd like to start leveraging our connection to Ren, but it's a sensitive topic with our recent treason. That's why I'm framing it as Hazou making a grudging concession to Asuma in return for being able to help Ami. The Hana bit there is almost completely aboveboard, though it should also serve to humanize Hazou in Asuma's eyes and show that he is actually loyal to family, if not his birth clan.
Yasuji
Self-explanatory. Kagome's modifications are something Wakahisa should find very useful, and it doesn't cost us much to sell then. Would easily get Asuma's permission there, too.
Akane introspection
Hazou's relationship with Akane suffered from bad power dynamics from the start, and then it only got worse until the first real stressor broke it. While Akane is good for Hazou, the reverse is not true in the slightest. He enables her worst tendencies, and doesn't realize it at all, nor is he even aware of them. The point of this section is to give him enough of an idea that something isn't right, and that the problem isn't solely his.
Mari
Mari actually does know about Akane's insecurities, and how much of her facade is exactly this. I'm hoping she'll help Hazou come to the right conclusions here. The ultimate point of all of this is for Hazou to mature emotionally. Maybe this will result in him re-igniting his relationship with Akane, and maybe not, but I think it's worthwhile either way.
Incidentally, writing this plan had me read through a bunch of older updates, and man, the contrast between that Hazou and the one from the most recent update is striking. @eaglejarl @OliWhail @Velorien major props for actually developing his characters through all of our bullshit and whining in such a satisfying way.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
@Roomba, when we visit Mari, can we bring her a disgusting amount of expensive chocolate? She mentioned it during the revelation about the consequences of her genjutsu --she said she'd be fine after some time and some chocolate... well, she's had time, so let's give her chocolate.
@Roomba, when we visit Mari, can we bring her a disgusting amount of expensive chocolate? She mentioned it during the revelation about the consequences of her genjutsu --she said she'd be fine after some time and some chocolate... well, she's had time, so let's give her chocolate.
added collaborating with asuma of jiraiya note contributions
i want us to ask mari whether we should ask Asuma for permission to trade these things. or whether it's such an outrageous idea that Asuma would get angry at us just for mentioning it. As we've seen before, Mari doesn't always have the speed to stop us in real time if we don't consult her beforehand.
- Location
- Potato land
Are you assuming she used it on Yasuji?
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Nope, I doubt she'd need it. Besides, given the revelation surround its side effects, I doubt she'd ever want to use it again.
I just remember Mari saying something to the effect during one of our check in conversations. Something like "Give me some time and I'll be alright... but you owe me an obscene amount of chocolate" as a way to lighten to the heavy conversation. If nothing else, it'd be a good apology gift for making her run around for 3 days straight trying to put out our fires. I just think it'd be a nice little thoughtful gift that would do more to show our apology than mindlessly repeating the same rote lines that we always do.
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- Location
- Yes.
[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
Also, Yasuji mentioned clan training which ought to also be considered.
Keep in mind that it's 1AM and Asuma is probably exhausted from Hokage'ing. Maybe we could focus on the more pertinent topics (Hazou personally interceding, Yasuji negotiation)?
Emphasis: We want a barrel whose seals/carvings/whatever-they-are will last much longer than the 5 years Noburi's barrel was slated to last. Ideally we'd want a barrel design that lasts infinitely, but Yasuji will probably demand a lot for a permanently active Leaf-Wakahisa clan and the Wakahisa Clan Elders will probably not want that either; they'd probably end up offering a continuous trade of useful seals/things in exchange for updated 5-year barrel designs or something that keeps us having to pay them for stuff.
Also, Yasuji mentioned clan training which ought to also be considered.
- Methinks we should emphasize them as being "defensive coverings", instead of being "Kagome's modifications"? The latter implies Kagome's been studying Noburi's barrel, which we don't want Yasuji to think.
- Maybe we should have some other floating ideas for the Wakahisa, like a pump system for easier access to the chakra water (i.e., in a combat situation)? Certainly if Yasuji brushes the idea off we should have alternatives, at the least some sort of trade deal that favors the Wakahisa or something.
- Anyway, any ideas we float with Yasuji that involves clan stuff (not just this) should be discussed with the rest of the clan. Stuff like offering Kagome's defensive coverings should be checked over with Noburi to make sure the clan doesn't already have this sort of thing.
- Starting to think we should have dinner with the guy, not breakfast...
I think you missed a detail, what was it calculated to be? Xor do you mean that it was calculated (that'll save you a word by deleting the "a")?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Something I threw together yesterday/today:
Now that we know the rules for how mastering a seal works in FtD, I wanted to try and optimize. See, our Shadow Clones don't have Iron Nerve, so they don't get our auto-success on drawing seal blanks, and that means if we want to reliably churn out tons of seals with our shadow clones (if we can make 10 clones and send them to make seals for 3h then we get 360 seal elements when they're done) then they need to master drawing the seal blanks themselves.
Mastering a seal is a number's game. The odds of failing an individual seal is low, but if you throw the dice enough times you'll get snakeeyes sooner or later. And since it takes 50 successes to reduce the TN by 1, we're throwing the dice a lot of times before it's fully mastered.
All is not lost, however, since you can stack the deck in your favour, with a little work. We have a few things we can do to increase the odds of successfully grinding the seals:
The spreadsheet linked above goes into much more detail, calculating exact odds of mastery without hitting a sealing failure, and how long it is likely to take to grind that seal to mastery.
Q: Why do we want to do this? Can't we just use Hazou Prime with Iron Nerve up?
A: For seals we only need a small quantity of, Hazou Prime is sufficient. For seals we want to make thousands of, dedicating a dozen Shadow Clones to the task would be very efficient.
Q: How do we know where we are on the chart?
A: There's no way to be sure (though I suspect I could put together a mechanism that estimates our current position based on number of found failures), so the primary utility of this sheet right now is to inform our general strategy from a position of not knowing exactly where we land on the chart. How much time do we want to sink into mastering this seal, compared against the increased odds of success for specific TNs, that sort of question is for you to decide with the help of the chart.
Now that we know the rules for how mastering a seal works in FtD, I wanted to try and optimize. See, our Shadow Clones don't have Iron Nerve, so they don't get our auto-success on drawing seal blanks, and that means if we want to reliably churn out tons of seals with our shadow clones (if we can make 10 clones and send them to make seals for 3h then we get 360 seal elements when they're done) then they need to master drawing the seal blanks themselves.
Mastering a seal is a number's game. The odds of failing an individual seal is low, but if you throw the dice enough times you'll get snakeeyes sooner or later. And since it takes 50 successes to reduce the TN by 1, we're throwing the dice a lot of times before it's fully mastered.
All is not lost, however, since you can stack the deck in your favour, with a little work. We have a few things we can do to increase the odds of successfully grinding the seals:
- Be Careful when scribing (+1 AB, +5m)
- Verify the seal (second calligraphy check, +1h)
- Careful verification (second calligraphy check at +1 AB, +3h)
The spreadsheet linked above goes into much more detail, calculating exact odds of mastery without hitting a sealing failure, and how long it is likely to take to grind that seal to mastery.
Q: Why do we want to do this? Can't we just use Hazou Prime with Iron Nerve up?
A: For seals we only need a small quantity of, Hazou Prime is sufficient. For seals we want to make thousands of, dedicating a dozen Shadow Clones to the task would be very efficient.
Q: How do we know where we are on the chart?
A: There's no way to be sure (though I suspect I could put together a mechanism that estimates our current position based on number of found failures), so the primary utility of this sheet right now is to inform our general strategy from a position of not knowing exactly where we land on the chart. How much time do we want to sink into mastering this seal, compared against the increased odds of success for specific TNs, that sort of question is for you to decide with the help of the chart.
- Location
- UK
FTFY. Now Hazō is marginally less likely to be consumed by a time-travelling sealing accident.
- Location
- Yes.
Wait, I'm confused, isn't Roomba already doing this by asking Asuma about negotiating with Yasuji? Sounds like you're thinking about something more specific, could you elaborate?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I apparently missed that section of the plan. Ignore me
- Location
- Why would this be required?
[X] Action Plan: Family Matters
- Location
- Yes.
I...yes, I agree with this. Maybe we could just discuss the basic negotiations over breakfast instead? That way there's the excuse to have Mari sit in on things.
Side note: Probably should prep negotiation strategy with Mari. Really starting to think we should do this over lunch or something.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I strongly disagree with these. The marginal value of spending an update talking to Mari about our strategy is low. It also puts us another update behind actually getting started on any of our long term goals
- Location
- Potato land
So, you just want me to delete the Hana part? That's kind of calculated to make Hazou more sympathetic. The argument that Asuma is exhausted can be used to argue that we shouldn't bring any of this up right now, but we're already there, and discussing related topics anyway. Not like we're bringing up unrelated stuff.
I think that's excessively specific for our first proper meeting. I'd be fine with making that point *less* specific, signalling our interest in everything Yasuji was offering.
Yeah, excessive "a".
Good point about the phrasing, I'll change it. I'm mostly bringing up the thing as a probe, to see how he reacts. Am willing to add more ideas there.
I disagree with this, though. Hazou is Clan Head, by Jiraiya's will and by acclamation by the clan members. They trust him to do the job better than they would themselves. He shouldn't agree to any major trade without discussing with the clan, though he certainly has the authority. But propose things without committing? I think that's perfectly fine.
I'm with Oneiros here. Mechanically, we should have a couple Aspects over him at this point. And even if he outrolls us, what of it? This is as low-risk as we can get when talking to other powerful people. Hazou can't hide behind Mari's skirts forever. I see much opportunity for growth and not much for major failure.
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- Location
- Yes.
I feel that spending the update talking to Mari about the strategy is a bit of an exaggeration? What's stopping that from being off-screened, for example?
All Roomba would have to do is add a "optimize with Mari beforehand" to the plan.
Maybe just say we'd want a "lasting" barrel? Would that work?
I see, if it's just to make proposals without committing that should be fine, then.
Hm. Maybe proposing a running trade of ironwood + the method of reinforced barrel-making to the Wakahisa Clan as part of a trade? Just spitballing to make the idea more interesting to Yasuji.
...
I had a weird idea about trapping Noburi's barrel by lining the outside with storage seals that are filled with cement, so that whenever something breaks the seals (e.g., piercing weapons) they get caught.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thank you! Which updates were you reading?
Note that you are allowed to verify a seal multiple times. You are never told "there are no errors", only "you found no errors".
- Location
- Yes.
Edits are OP.
Alright, I think it's reasonable as long as you write out that we aren't finalizing any deals during the post-breakfast meeting.
Edit: And that we're committing to doing that.
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- Location
- Potato land
I can add "Discuss this approach with Mari the night before" to the start of that section, if it'll make you more comfortable.
Sure. Will do.
Could float the general idea of materials trade. Maybe they'd like salt?
- Location
- Yes.
That would work, yeah.
They're on a coastal city.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Yeah, I account for both of those things in the spreadsheet, but it felt clunky to go too in-depth in the description of it. The strategies the spreadsheet account for include all the way up to 'careful scribing + two careful verification attempts'. Thanks for pointing it out in case I had overlooked that, though!