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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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eaglejarl said:
Hazō smiled coldly. "Kid, here's what I know about you: You're a skinwaste partyboy whose rich daddy got him sent out of the city, probably two steps ahead of some scandal. You show up right after my sister's"—he paused for a moment, trying to find a word that would encompass the relation between Keiko and Ami, then gave up—"sister gets arrested by Mist ANBU. You spin us some wild story about how we're doomed and only you have the solution. A story that, based on everything that Kagome-sensei knows, is barely conceivable but insanely dangerous for the Wakahisa to have done. In short: You're threatening us and you're probably full of shit. The only question is which parts of it are half-digested kernels of truth mixed in with the shit?
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Yes. All the yes. Finally, Hazou kicks the idiot in his teeth. I still say that we plan his death.

eaglejarl said:
"I did, but hold on." She looked over at Haru. "Get this straight: I'm an adult woman who is in charge of her own sexuality. If I want to fuck someone for my own satisfaction then I don't give two shits about your prudery or the scandalized wagging of Leaf's collective tongue. If you have a problem with that, keep your mouth shut or get the fuck out of this clan." She paused, sipping her tea without dropping her frank and barely-not-threatening eye contact.
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Okay, so Mari is still okay doing seductions of her own volition. I'm not sure I'm okay with commanding her to do them (feels weird to treat her consent like that) but I'm okay with Mari doing so unprompted and of her own free will. Because then we know that she's fully consenting. Is that weird? Kinda feels weird.

Anyhow, Mari is continuing to be okay. She misses Jiraiya, she's a little annoyed at Hazou... actually, we should probably do a check-in, now that we know Ami's not in immediate, "go now, or else" danger. It occurs to me that ever since we got back from the Island, Mari's been on a nonstop rush to save Hazou. Does she have any recreational hobbies? One that's not really connected to ninja life? Kagome's got teaching...?

eaglejarl said:
"When it comes to direct personal threats, Ami is a coward," Mari said. She held up a hand to silence Keiko's protest. "I am in a better position to judge this than you are, and it's true. She's brilliant at social manipulation"—she preened for a moment—"although, of course, not quite in my class. Actually, she's not that good at I&S in general; she's too...unusual for that. Very good at politics, interrogation, and manipulation, moderately good at combat, but terrible at infiltration or seduction. She would make an abysmal scout, although she'd be great at contact and recruitment with any of the eastern nations. That means that she couldn't be sent alone; she'd need a bodyguard, either another jōnin or two to three combat-spec chūnin. That's a significant force for the Mizukage to tie up simply to get Ami out of her hair. She would be good as a commander for a seal research site out in the back of beyond, but sealmasters are valuable and hanging them out in the breeze is a big risk."
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Huh. So Ami is a physical coward. Hm. Honestly, this changes my perspective on her a bit. Not sure how, exactly, but it does. Hm... I mean, I'd still love for her to be a recurring character and her sheer depth/complexity is astounding! But... she also seems to be fundamentally selfish. I mean, valuing her agency/freedom above all else is understandable, really. She has to be free to further her Grand Plans, she has agency-related trauma, and she's willing to fight a Boss Summon with/for Keiko.

But she also refrained from interacting with Keiko until well into our adventures. When it became politically "safe" for her to do so. So... 1) freedom, 2) Goals, 3) Keiko?

Ami's also vulnerable, physically, and seems to have no desire to change that --min/maxing herself, I guess? She gloats/preens that she can twist Orochimaru's gaze away from her and that most S-rankers are similarly vulnerable to social manipulation, seemingly unaware that Orochimaru could change his mind on a whim and snap her spine in two without anyone thinking twice. She... I just. I don't know.

Not preferring to fight is one thing. Wanting to exhaust other options is one thing. But to be an outright coward about it? I'm not sure how much of it is true and how much of it is the disconnect between our modern perspective and Marked for Death's perspective, but we should probably limit the things we bring to Ami if those things involve a measure of physical violence. She's not entirely trustworthy to begin with, but this adds another dimension to weigh when we navigate our conversations with her. Not to mention that Ami regards Kieko's wellness so highly, but then also ignored Keiko to the point where she thought Ami hated her.

So... I don't know. This knowledge casts a bit of a filter on what we already know about Ami. One that I'm not sure how to feel about.

eaglejarl said:
"Look, do we really need to spend time on this right or can you just put a pin in it and think about it on your own time?"

Haru straightened in his chair. "Yes. I can do that, sir."
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HAZOU: *openness, vulnerability, and trust*
HARU: *stunned silence*
HAZOU: *annoyed suggestion*
HARU: Oh, look! Authority! Thank fuck, something familiar!

eaglejarl said:
"Since you ask so nicely, dear sister." He allowed his smile to express the reproof that he would not spend time or words on.
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I m 110% sure that Hazou's wearing one of Mari's smiles right now, just like he wore Jiraiya's authoritative posture/tone in the last chapter.

eaglejarl said:
Asuma chuckled and shook his head in amusement. "Well played, Hazō. Not 'Ami', who is a thorn in my side and a headache. Not 'Keiko's sister', since Keiko is one of many Leaf ninja and not even a jōnin. 'Lady Nara's' sister, since the Nara are my primary allies." He held up a hand to cut off the protest. "Who are some of my closest allies. A status which it might be possible for the Gōketsu to achieve." He hesitated, studying Hazō carefully. "Possible."
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Woo, he still likes us! Quick, send him a fruit basket, before it's too late!

faflec said:
Wait, I thought Hana was the initial ambassador? Or Ren's initial ambassador, at least?
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I took that as a subtle "we're going to pretend Hana doesn't exist and that your first Ambassador wasn't a complete fuck up. It's in your favor to play along."

Enjou said:
We may want to ask Asuma on what he is and isn't comfortable with us bargaining, to establish limits.
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I'd rather let Mari handle that, with maybe a final check from Asuma. Unless we're selling state secrets or Leaf-related stuff, it doesn't really matter to him in his position as Hokage. Further, it gives him insight into how we haggle, our resources, and undo sway over our clan's functioning. Mari's a much better choice to have do that, and then once we get a finalized list of things that we'd be willing to bargain, we give him a copy for final approval. And that's even if we need the Hokage's approval to conduct trade outside of Leaf. We might not. I'd check and see if we do, before we do anything.

Lord Marshal said:
Well there is solution to that: give Asuma a reason to help us obtain the Koi, and we have a wonderful reason for that that start with two words.
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Noburi's already gone to Asuma for permission. Asuma said "go ahead, but I won't be able to give 'official' approval and if you get caught, you're dead and I can't save you." I feel like bringing it up again would make it look like, to him, that we're pestering him for official approval to do a black ops mission. One that he already gave us "unofficial" approval for.
 
Action Plan: Family Talks
Words: (bleh)
Timestart: Next Morning
  • Check with Honoka's Physician
  • Hang out with Kagome, talk about Seals and Akane
    • She was previously so worried she'd be subsumed by Uplift and stop being "Akane"
    • Has that changed? What does Kagome think?
    • Noburi's seals
      • Given the barrel-seals that we have (Noburi's, that other girl's, and possibly Yasuji's), could we fix Noburi's problem on our own?
  • Check in with Mari
    • Apologize for being so troublesome
    • Ask how she's doing
    • Bring an absurdly large chunk of stupidly expensive chocolate (as per her request that one time)
    • If Mari's in an acceptable mood, talk about our residual feelings for Akane + Kagome's insights
 
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faflec said:
Or he's savvy enough to disguise his disgust towards us.
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You know, all I do is try and bring a little bit of hope in this dark, dank Hivemind... And sometimes it feels like all you want to do is watch us all swim with cement shoes.
(joking, I swear. My honest reply is that I think Mari would've been able to tell... maybe we should ask her?)
 
RandomOTP said:
Noburi's already gone to Asuma for permission. Asuma said "go ahead, but I won't be able to give 'official' approval and if you get caught, you're dead and I can't save you." I feel like bringing it up again would make it look like, to him, that we're pestering him for official approval to do a black ops mission. One that he already gave us "unofficial" approval for.
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I'm (and to be clear i mean this with no offence, it happened to me various times )fairly sure you misread my point. Noburi went to Asuma for the Koi, before Yasuji, as a Wakahisa that needs Koi to be 100% efficient. The point and plan of my post is completely different and does far more than this. Regardless, the operation before and after Yasuji and this new information is completely different, because the Koi become far more valuable.
 
RandomOTP said:
Okay, so Mari is still okay doing seductions of her own volition. I'm not sure I'm okay with commanding her to do them (feels weird to treat her consent like that) but I'm okay with Mari doing so unprompted and of her own free will. Because then we know that she's fully consenting. Is that weird? Kinda feels weird.
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Honestly, I read that part as if she was half speaking to the players and half to the SV mods.
 
Lord Marshal said:
I'm (and to be clear i mean this with no offence, it happened to me various times )fairly sure you misread my point. Noburi went to Asuma for the Koi, before Yasuji, as a Wakahisa that needs Koi to be 100% efficient. The point and plan of my post is completely different and does far more than this. Regardless, the operation before and after Yasuji and this new information is completely different, because the Koi become far more valuable.
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Didn't Asuma already get Noburi to use water for a Summoning Army immediately after the Collapse?
 
RandomOTP said:
You know, all I do is try and bring a little bit of hope in this dark, dank Hivemind... And sometimes it feels like all you want to do is watch us all swim with cement shoes.
(joking, I swear. My honest reply is that I think Mari would've been able to tell... maybe we should ask her?)
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From my perspective it's pretty clear that Asuma doesn't trust or particularly like Hazou anymore, but that he's the type of Hokage who tries to set personal feelings aside for the good of Konoha. So as long as we deal in good faith with him he'll deal in good faith with us, even if he wouldn't exactly want to play board games with us or help us beyond what's practical for his goals (i.e. treating the Goketsu in general as a political ally)
 
faflec said:
Didn't Asuma already get Noburi to use water for a Summoning Army immediately after the Collapse?
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It's the same issue as the SC: Naruto uses massive amounts of Chakra to uses Shadow Clones, so it stands to reason that FOOM is obvious to everyone? No, because people don't try to min-max everything they see, nor are an hivemind of future people with rules and spreadsheets in front of them.
Asuma knows that Noburi can help with summoning, he also assumes Noburi cannot give him infinite chakra, because it's like me saying "I can punch a mountain", it's ridiculous from his PoV, especially consider he never had a Chakra drainer as a Leaf-nin. Maybe with time he could think about the Koi AND Noburi AND Summoning, if he finds time between the Paperwork/Dealing with Orochimaru/Dealing with Tsunade/Dealing with Clan/Dealing with...Ect. But somewhere far in the future it's not now.

An example would the Skywalkers and Rock, did they expect MEW bombing? No, because having something and having an actually perfect strategy to use it is different, so if we can propose it before he thinks about it...well, it means we offered another S-Rank level innovation and...well, i already explained the profit. The risks on the other hand....
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
From my perspective it's pretty clear that Asuma doesn't trust or particularly like Hazou anymore, but that he's the type of Hokage who tries to set personal feelings aside for the good of Konoha. So as long as we deal in good faith with him he'll deal in good faith with us, even if he wouldn't exactly want to play board games with us or help us beyond what's practical for his goals (i.e. treating the Goketsu in general as a political ally)
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Aye. There's room to rebuild that trust and appreciation in time, though, so lon gas we show him that the Akatsuki thing was extenuating circumstances.
 
Lord Marshal said:
It's the same issue as the SC: Naruto uses massive amounts of Chakra to uses Shadow Clones, so it stands to reason that FOOM is obvious to everyone? No, because people don't try to min-max everything they see, nor are an hivemind of future people with rules and spreadsheets in front of them.
Asuma knows that Noburi can help with summoning, he also assumes Noburi cannot give him infinite chakra, because it's like me saying "I can punch a mountain", it's ridiculous from his PoV, especially consider he never had a Chakra drainer as a Leaf-nin. Maybe with time he could think about the Koi AND Noburi AND Summoning, if he finds time between the Paperwork/Dealing with Orochimaru/Dealing with Tsunade/Dealing with Clan/Dealing with...Ect. But somewhere far in the future it's not now.

An example would the Skywalkers and Rock, did they expect MEW bombing? No, because having something and having an actually perfect strategy to use it is different, so if we can propose it before he thinks about it...well, it means we offered another S-Rank level innovation and...well, i already explained the profit. The risks on the other hand....
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I'm confused, because I was under the impression that your plan was to get Asuma to work with us on the koi based on the 'Summoning army' idea, and I was responding to that by pointing out that Asuma already has that idea in mind, especially not that he's aware of the koi from Noburi's conversation with him. What does FOOM have to do with this?
 
faflec said:
Didn't Asuma already get Noburi to use water for a Summoning Army immediately after the Collapse?
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Yeah, but Asuma didn't do much summoning, though there was multiple at once. It was mostly the Naruto Summoner who was spamming, and he was unimpressed with what Noburi gave him. (Also, Asuma's reserves are Large we learned).
 
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Halberdier said:
Yeah, but Asuma didn't do much summoning, though there was multiple at once. It was mostly the Naruto Summoner who was spamming, and he was unimpressed with what Noburi gave him. (Also, Asuma's reserves are Large we learned).
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Right, but my point is that the idea is still inside his head (i.e., use Noburi's barrel for additional chakra to create more Summons), and that he has an idea of how to fix the insufficient chakra (i.e., get koi, drain koi when needed).
 
Lord Marshal said:
I'm (and to be clear i mean this with no offence, it happened to me various times )fairly sure you misread my point. Noburi went to Asuma for the Koi, before Yasuji, as a Wakahisa that needs Koi to be 100% efficient. The point and plan of my post is completely different and does far more than this. Regardless, the operation before and after Yasuji and this new information is completely different, because the Koi become far more valuable.
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In that case, I'd be okay with going to Asuma as a last resort. First, I'd like to have Hazou work with Kagome to try and fix the issue themselves, using their own sealing mastery, copies of Noburi's Barrel-Seals, and the Barrel-Seals we stole from that one girl. This might be something that we can work out ourselves, especially since it's on a year or multi-year timeframe. And if it doesn't, we can ask Noburi if he'd be okay bringing in other Leaf sealmasters in on the project, first.

Inferno Vulpix said:
From my perspective it's pretty clear that Asuma doesn't trust or particularly like Hazou anymore, but that he's the type of Hokage who tries to set personal feelings aside for the good of Konoha. So as long as we deal in good faith with him he'll deal in good faith with us, even if he wouldn't exactly want to play board games with us or help us beyond what's practical for his goals (i.e. treating the Goketsu in general as a political ally)
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I think that the Akatasuki was a larger version of when Hazou first suggested murdering a Summoner for their scroll. It took him by surprise and made him readjust his perspective on Hazou. This made him realize that...
  1. Hazou's not a perfectly naturalized Will of Fire ninja yet,
  2. Hazou will go fucking far for those he loves, even if it's the whole damned Leaf,
  3. Hazou doesn't necessarily view the Hokage as an intrinsic part of the Leaf, and will work against a Hokage if he thinks it'll better the Leaf.
 
Cariyaga said:
Aye. There's room to rebuild that trust and appreciation in time, though, so lon gas we show him that the Akatsuki thing was extenuating circumstances.
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If it were any other thread my brain would have instantly corrected that while reading, but here it took me a while to figure out that no, we aren't going to hand him a plasma weapon. :V
 
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Tua said:
If it were any other thread my brain would have instantly corrected that while reading, but here it took me a while that to figure out that no, we aren't going to hand him a plasma weapon. :V
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I mean. Handing him a plasma weapon would, in fact, win him over to our side. Worked on his dad with the skywalker seals.
 
RandomOTP said:
I mean. Handing him a plasma weapon would, in fact, win him over to our side. Worked on his dad with the skywalker seals.
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True, but his father also died shortly after we gave him those.

So it's a good thing that Asuma isn't an Uchiha irrational actor that conflates Hazou giving his father Skywalkers with his father dying because Skywalkers were directly responsible for the decision to lure out the Mizukage.
 
faflec said:
I'm confused, because I was under the impression that your plan was to get Asuma to work with us on the koi based on the 'Summoning army' idea, and I was responding to that by pointing out that Asuma already has that idea in mind, especially not that he's aware of the koi from Noburi's conversation with him. What does FOOM have to do with this?
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Asuma knows that Noburi can help him summon. Asuma knows that Koi exist. Nothing else. The FOOM is an example and a direct parallel to explain how having the pieces and knowing the solution are two different thing.

Summoning Army:
1)Noburi can give Chakra
2)Chakra help Summoning
3)Summoning Army

FOOM
1)Noburi cangive Chakra
2)Chakra helps Shadow Clones
3)FOOM

It's the perfect example that just because Asuma knows about the individual pieces, it doesn't mean he reached the solution. Yet.

EDIT: Also everyone is extremely overworked right now, they don't really have time to theorize how to conquer the world like we can. i'm mildly surprised Asuma has time to sleep

RandomOTP said:
that case, I'd be okay with going to Asuma as a last resort. First, I'd like to have Hazou work with Kagome to try and fix the issue themselves, using their own sealing mastery, copies of Noburi's Barrel-Seals, and the Barrel-Seals we stole from that one girl. This might be something that we can work out ourselves, especially since it's on a year or multi-year timeframe. And if it doesn't, we can ask Noburi if he'd be okay bringing in other Leaf sealmasters in on the project, first.
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Why? It would give us trust, power, protection, shiny to exchange with the Wakahisa instead of our shiny jutsus and so on. "Doing it alone" it's not a benefit when it only bring problems. Also, there is the possibility Shikamaru will reach the Summoning Army conclusion, meaning no more Trust/Power/Protections/Ect...
I feel you still don't understand my point, it's not to resolve Noburi Problems, is to offer Asuma another S-rank innovation with all the benefit that it implies(Including solving Noburi problems).


EDIT 2:


faflec said:
I'm confused, because I was under the impression that your plan was to get Asuma to work with us on the koi based on the 'Summoning army' idea, and I was responding to that by pointing out that Asuma already has that idea in mind, especially not that he's aware of the koi from Noburi's conversation with him. What does FOOM have to do with this?
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Sorry, in my hurry i didn't explain myself well. I'll clarify my position.

  • Asuma probably doesn't understand the implication of the Koi right now, because he knows about the Koi in the context of Noburi working at maximum efficency, not "Summon an entire Clan on earth".
    • It's like someome IRL saying "I can teleport", the first answer is "Awesome" or "You can go to the moon" not "You can create a infinite energy plant by strategic teleportation".
    • Especially because Asuma is extremely overworked right now, by virtue of being the Hokage after the Collapse.
  • Giving Asuma the "Summoning Army ideas" means
    • Extending him a massive amount of trust (How many people would kill/kidnap Noburi in Leaf for such power? How many Clan would stop at nothing to obtain him/Stop Goketsu from obtaining such power) that will help mend the relationship
    • Change Noburi place from "Chunin" to "Strategy resource" meaning Asuma will throw resource at us to convince the Wakahisa, that a cool thing, if not really relevant
    • Firmly establishes us as the next Minato(Brought Leaf Skytower, Skywalker and Summoning Army as a genin,Age wise)
    • Means that executing Hazou/The Goketsu rob Leaf of a massive chunk of their defensive power, pretty good this if the F missive Kaiju hits.
    • If it counts as a contest contribution, it's another massive step to the Dog Scroll(Maybe not as big as the summoning contract, but still in that tier in the current situation).
    • It make any other Goketsu summoner more powerful, because the second Leaf is attacked ---> Goketsu Estate becomes a inter-Summon Can army fortress.
  • The Risk are:
    • Asuma already found out, we obtain nothing
    • Foreign Villages find out, we become super priority targets
    • Other clan finds out, someone could decide that they want Noburi or that Noburi is getting to irritating(Doubtfull after the collapse)
    • Other?
 
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RandomOTP said:
But she also refrained from interacting with Keiko until well into our adventures. When it became politically "safe"
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I think you're misremembering. She consciously cut Keiko off in an effort to protect her from Mori manipulation.

Incidentally, I am regularly surprised by claims that Ami lacks flaws when that was the first thing we saw her do (outside Keiko's memories).
 
Lord Marshal said:
I'm (and to be clear i mean this with no offence, it happened to me various times )fairly sure you misread my point.
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Lord Marshal said:
I feel you still don't understand my point, it's not to resolve Noburi Problems, is to offer Asuma another S-rank innovation with all the benefit that it implies(Including solving Noburi problems).
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Velorien said:
I think you're misremembering. She consciously cut Keiko off in an effort to protect her from Mori manipulation.

Incidentally, I am regularly surprised by claims that Ami lacks flaws when that was the first thing we saw her do (outside Keiko's memories).
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*slams head on desk*
I need to get some goddamned sleep...
 
Cool, things went better than expected. Hazou was a tad too enthusiastic about the bad cop routine, but it worked out fine.

For Yasuji, I say we're nice to him come morning and express some genuine interest in the koi and barrel seals. Us knowing that he doesn't have authority gives us a pretty good starting position to reframe the relationship - we can say that we'd like to make it work, but he needs to help us understand what kind of offer the Wakahisa would actually accept. There's something worthwhile to be achieved here.

I also have an idea on how to approach the Akane conversation, though it's quite ambitious and requires soma real leaps od logic from Hazou.
 
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