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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Lailoken said:
Ambassador: "I come in peace and friendship."

Hivemind: "Quick, how can we knock him out and steal his stuff?"
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Ambassador: Hey, I'm going to plan against your sister's family, be rude to your guards, barge into your home uninvited and demand a meeting, insult your new country's culture, question your loyalty to the Leaf, be mean to your brother, give you questionable information, pretend to promise future rewards if you do this potentially traitorous thing for me now, and I'm going to be as rude as humanly possible while doing so.

Hivemind: Alright. Kid. Sit down, shut up, and listen. Because we have a 72 page powerpoint about how you don't rank in the top 100 of enemies that we've faced. Then, it's going to be followed by a 45 minute lecture about how you don't hold a candle to even the most questionable of our allies. Afterwards, you're going to sit with Mari and she's going to tell you, in excruciating detail, how you fucked up your delivery.

Ambassador: But I have diplomatic immunity!

Hivemind: That didn't help my mother, and the Mizukage actually gave two shits about her. Now shut up while you still have a tongue to speak with.

(Seriously, I don't like this wannabe-shin.)
 
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I feel like he's intentionally trying to be smooth and suave, but it's not coming off right because he's using the toolkit that he's put together for romancing ladies and it doesn't translate so well to power-play diplomacy like he's trying right now (unless you're Jiraiya or Mari, but he's not).

I can't really blame him for wanting to use what he knows, but I can blame him for concocting a plan where he uses seduction skills for power-play diplomacy. It only hasn't fallen apart yet because he's held the cards up until now, what with us not knowing what he was trying to propose. I don't expect him to stay so cool and collected now that the ball's in our court.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
I feel like he's intentionally trying to be smooth and suave, but it's not coming off right because he's using the toolkit that he's put together for romancing ladies and it doesn't translate so well to power-play diplomacy like he's trying right now (unless you're Jiraiya or Mari, but he's not).

I can't really blame him for wanting to use what he knows, but I can blame him for concocting a plan where he uses seduction skills for power-play diplomacy. It only hasn't fallen apart yet because he's held the cards up until now, what with us not knowing what he was trying to propose. I don't expect him to stay so cool and collected now that the ball's in our court.
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Guy probably only has the kit for romancing ladies, if Noburi's stories of his nighttime activities is any indication.

...the asshole part of me wants to just set Mari on him and call it a day.
 
Oneiros said:
I mean is that really a terrible idea?
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faflec said:
I mean, tactically speaking? Yeah, sure, Mari's an elite Jonin for a reason.
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I'm tempted to ask Mari to rip this kid a new one, too. I'm so very tempted to ask her to expose all of his emotional frailties, his vulnerabilities, his past traumas, his worst fears, and his fragile hopes. BUT. Mari doesn't want to be the Heartbreaker. And this worm might be a useful pawn in helping Ami --which we should do, for Keiko if for no other reason. So, in the most begrudging way possible, I have to force it through gritted teeth that I think that he should live... for now.
 
RandomOTP said:
I'm tempted to ask Mari to rip this kid a new one, too. I'm so very tempted to ask her to expose all of his emotional frailties, his vulnerabilities, his past traumas, his worst fears, and his fragile hopes. BUT. Mari doesn't want to be the Heartbreaker. And this worm might be a useful pawn in helping Ami --which we should do, for Keiko if for no other reason. So, in the most begrudging way possible, I have to force it through gritted teeth that I think that he should live... for now.
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If it makes you feel any better, we were never going to kill him ourselves, unless he actually tries to kill us of his own mentally-unaltered will.

At worst, we were going to set his drunken ass against a upstanding Leaf-nin like Naruto.
 
faflec said:
If it makes you feel any better, we were never going to kill him ourselves, unless he actually tries to kill us of his own mentally-unaltered will.

At worst, we were going to set his drunken ass against a upstanding Leaf-nin like Naruto.
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I can see it now...

HAZOU: Hey, Naruto? I know we've had our differences, but I just wanted to ask if you'd be willing to help me get back our mutual friend, Ami.
NARUTO: Why should I help you, Goketsu?
HAZOU (points): Because our alternative is that.
NARUTO: ...Give me a sec, I'm going to make him go splat.
HAZOU: What? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of him tripping over his own feet and falling into the Forest of Death.
NARUTO: You know, maybe you're not too bad, Goketsu.
 
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Lord Marshal said:
He offered various precious things and his worse sin was being relatively unpleasant in the sense of being a confident, irritating but respectful ninja. I don't see this extremely irritating behavior you perceived. As other people noted, he's practically a Shin with a bit "Confident, Arrogant and ambitious" in the mix, but higher on the Clan hierarchy.
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Same here
I think this is just the hivemind being paranoid and hostile toward other people that isn't directly aligned with us.. which means it's business as usual considering the past acts of the hive mind
 
faflec said:
Guy probably only has the kit for romancing ladies, if Noburi's stories of his nighttime activities is any indication.
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Actually, if this is true, isn't that the best possible reason to keep him as ambassador? It means it will be easier to back Mist into corners during negotiations and find out things that Mist doesn't want us to know.

Implications:
  • Don't tell Asuma how incompetent this guy is, because he will surely prefer an incompetent Mist ambassador over Ami.
  • We might be able to show Ren how much she needs Ami to be ambassador by simply pushing this guy into an amazing deal that benefits Leaf a lot with much less benefit for Mist.
 
Another option is to push a deal the Wakahisa are very happy about. This would encourage Wakahisa to continue trading, and possibly encourage other clans in Mist to also trade with us or other clans in Leaf. Similar to what the Pangolins did when they gave us high quality blood gems to encourage trading relationship.
 
roobee said:
Another option is to push a deal the Wakahisa are very happy about. This would encourage Wakahisa to continue trading, and possibly encourage other clans in Mist to also trade with us or other clans in Leaf. Similar to what the Pangolins did when they gave us high quality blood gems to encourage trading relationship.
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That sounds like a really good idea. This will make them want to keep the idiot as ambassador though, so we'll might want to both give them an amazing deal and at the same time make him do something incredibly embarrassing that makes them want to keep Ami in Leaf as the 'senior' ambassador to make sure he doesn't pull a Hazō or something.
 
Truck scrolls? It's not a secret, most is supposed to be an 'friendly nation' and with clans collaborating at both ends it might actually have enough clout not to get shut down. Bring fish into the leaf diet!
 
Roomba said:
Continue talking and mine him for information. Should be straightforward enough to press his buttons and get a clearer view of the situation. Make no commitments and don't fall for pressure tactics.
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Some ideas to talk about:
  • What would his father even consider valuable to "just" save Ami for now or what his father would find valuable in general
    • He does need to convince the guy after all
  • What trade between Goketsu-Wakahisa is he thinking of?
  • Pointing out that we don't need money, so we can just pay money for stuff (Skywalker sealmaster team is basically printing money)
  • Also calling him out about flip-flopping on the Ami issue
faflec said:
He's not the only ambassador and not even the important one.
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Probably not Hana or he would have mentioned it.

Also we and Asuma should want this guy around, if Ami is theoretically allowed to go on a mission for Leaf (she just overdid it) then he can help with chakra.

ASUMA: "Hahaha fuck you Earth I have at least two now, time for a summoning army!"
 
This is a massive opportunity. Asuma wanted us to get their Chakra Koi anyhow.

Get approval from Asuma, then put Mari on using her superior social skills to extract everything valuable out of him (well, Mist) at minimal cost and no diplomatic repercussions. If you particularly hate him, you can let him present the deal back to Ren, which will basically turn him into social pariah forever. I don't see the need for that, though.
 
Shard said:
This is a massive opportunity. Asuma wanted us to get their Chakra Koi anyhow.

Get approval from Asuma, then put Mari on using her superior social skills to extract everything valuable out of him (well, Mist) at minimal cost and no diplomatic repercussions. If you particularly hate him, you can let him present the deal back to Ren, which will basically turn him into social pariah forever. I don't see the need for that, though.
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A good relationship with the Wakahasia is valuable in and itself(and help strengthen Leaf's alliance with Mist). However, I don't particularly care which Wakahasia get put in charge.
 
Roomba said:
  • Continue talking and mine him for information. Should be straightforward enough to press his buttons and get a clearer view of the situation. Make no commitments and don't fall for pressure tactics.
  • Dismiss him and continue the meeting he interrupted. Calm Keiko down and analyze what options we have in helping Ami.
  • Figure out how to navigate the major problem that both Asuma and Ren have an interest in declawing Ami, and are likely to impede us.
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I think the optimal sequence is:
  • Mine Yasuji for information. Act concerned about what he's revealed, and interested in his offer. Don't commit to anything, citing the need to seek the Hokage's approval, but have him walk away thinking he's won.
  • Discuss the information we've gathered, what we're willing to offer him, etc. Put together a plan and get Asuma's approval on it.
  • Have the second meeting, and do a one-eighty: immediately reject the seals-related part of his offer, act only marginally interested in the other parts.
    • Seals: In reality, we don't care about it because 1) the problem is years away, and by the time it's a problem we'll have become a jounin-level biosealmaster capable of fixing it on our own, 2) depending on how the seals' expiration function is made, we could likely steal a refreshed design from another Wakahisa, even from Yasuji here right now. (Not that we can say any of that, since the first is effectively bloodline theft and the second is an explicit threat of hostile action.) I'm confident we don't need external assistance there.
    • Ami: Just claim we're confident she can save herself, or that Aunt Ren owes us a favour. Get Keiko in on it if possible, for maximum impact.
    • Koi: Claim that we could just breed our own specialized chakra beasts, or something.
Ideally, we'd handle him like we've handled Kabuto, switch to dismissing his offers and pressuring him right now. But it's a significantly more complicated situation that we also know less about, we need to take a break do discuss it, so trying to put him off-balance by a mood whiplash is probably our best bet. (If we want to maximize what we get out of this deal, that is. If we want to establish a long-term trading relationship with the Wakahisa, it might make sense to make them happy about the deal and happy about the easily-manipulated Yasuji, so that he stays the ambassador whom we can pressure into accepting an even more lopsided deal at some future point. I'm inclined towards not doing that.)

Edit: Ohh, we can also question his ability to deliver on his promises by pointing out that we'd be trading bloodline secrets and he's nowhere near a Clan Head. Seems like it'd work better for fishing for information, though, so we should probably do it during Phase 1 and subtly.
 
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Is there any reason we can't sit Mari up with Yasuji to extract maximum value? They both wanna bang and it be a solid way to a super strong and long term alliance
 
This is the type of deal you can leave to wait.

Sure, go ahead and inform Asuma and check things over with Mari.

But none of these things have a major time-pressure associated with them, other than being a new clan and vulnerable.

Yasuji's capital is hurt much more significantly but us sitting on our asses and stringing him along. Ami would probably benefit from that.

The barrel minder's would put Nob out of commission and we can't guarantee his safety.

The koi tenders would be inserted as a weakness in leaf, but are vulnerable to Byakugan stinkers, and could be implemented on our own.

All of this stuff seems really directed at Nob, and might be Wakahisa shenanigans.

We need to verify the shit that is being said, particularly in regards to Wakahisa succession.
 
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Oneiros said:
Is there any reason we can't sit Mari up with Yasuji to extract maximum value? They both wanna bang and it be a solid way to a super strong and long term alliance
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My only issue with this is that we don't know if Mari's genuinely interested in Yasuji. Yasuji made his attraction to her known, and I could easily see Mari pretending to respond in kind just to manipulate that vulnerability. Yasuji's a playboy, but he's used to plying his skills on his clansmen and the clanless --people who have an incentive to either play along, or use his desires to their advantage. Yasuji's used to plying the romance card on willing targets, but Mari is Mari. A social spec jonin, a genjutsu mistress, a technique crafter, and a master manipulator to the point where even spymaster extraordinaire Jiraiya was impressed. Yasuji is a T-ball player going against one of the top professionals in the league.

Besides, I feel a little uncomfortable with asking Mari to seduce a target. Manipulate? Analyze? Sure, no problem. But seduce? That feels a little too close to encouraging her worst self --and remember how Mari backslid into the Heartbreaker last time we did that? Sure, there were further extenuating circumstances, but unless Mari proactively decides to seduce Yasuji out of her own free will, or offers to do so willingly (and out of the belief that it won't hurt her mental/emotional health) then I don't think we should go for that.

There's a reason why Mari wanted to retire from active ninja life, and, considering her specialty, there are aspects of it that she seemed very eager to leave behind. Remember, that was one of the main things that we fought for when we negotiated our immigration to Leaf. We actively fought to deny Leaf access to another jonin because Mari wanted to retire so much. I'm not very comfortable with asking Mari to do the very things that she seemed so eager to stop.

And all of this is further complicated by the effects of her genjutsu.
 
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