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Great update! It's really interesting to see Hazou try to translate between Eld Out Thoughts and normal human concepts. That money/token system is way more detailed than something we'd have put in the plan, but I like it. Some payment up-front, the rest conditional on completion, and incentives for honesty in the form of gating repeated business.

Now, I do believe we owe Velorien an update talking to Ami about the Out. :p

Also, Plan Cache is up, though as with previous cycles it likely won't be super-relevant until after this event is over.
Plan Cache:
  • Naruto:
    • Let him know that we regularly come up with potentially really stupid ideas and run them by people we trust, because that's part of the process of coming up with good ideas. We included you in reviewing the first draft of our idea because we trust you to call us out when the idea's stupid, which it turned out to be.
  • Contact Akatsuki and make it look like their idea. (Already in process?)
  • Forbidden Lore.
  • Talk to Lee about adoption.
  • Teaching KEI members:
    • (Overarching goal: Look for overlooked (due to personality traits, the Academy's biases, etc.) promising students to adopt/apprentice.)
    • Coordinate with Kagome on teaching Sealing Theory. Don't teach practical sealing unless Kagome approves.
    • Suggest teaching Medicine to Noburi.
    • Is Naruto a technique hacker? Would he be willing to teach too?
    • Apply for guest lectures at the Academy.
  • Look into Orochimaru's, Bakushin's, and Goemon's notes.
  • Convene Goketsu Gaming Mondays. Invite Naruto and KEI specifically.
  • Scale up Salterns.
  • Clear the land we bought.
  • Find, rebuild, and re-key Jiraiya's contacts/network.
    • Use guerilla civil engineering as cover.
    • Make sure to look into the Yakuza.

Past Major Plans:
Building Something New by faflec
Rocks Fell, Everyone Died by faflec

Compounding Disasters (cont.) by MMKII
Compounding Disasters by faflec


Rules of the Plan Cache:
  1. Get Support. The Plan Cache is for ideas that already have support of a sizeable chunk of the playerbase, not for ideas that someone wants to advocate later. For a benchmark, your idea should have enough support to be in one of the major plans of a cycle if there was room in the plan.
  2. Short-term. The Plan Cache is for ideas that we intend to implement in the next few updates, or more loosely within the same rough story arc. If you have an idea beyond that temporal scope, I have another post storing those ideas so ask me to put it there instead of cluttering up our short-term storage.
Sometimes when we're making a plan we have a good idea that's just outside the temporal scope of the update, but we don't want to cut it from the plan because we might forget by the next cycle. This adds unnecessary words that could have been spent fleshing out the rest of the plan, and may outright cost XP in the worst cases.

This plan cache will hold these subsections so they don't fall into the void between planning cycles. Just ping me with the subsection and, unless it's wildly unreasonable, I'll edit it into the post. I'll keep them there for a while until they either make it into a winning plan, fall out of favour, or the context significantly changes. Depending on circumstances, they might end up in my Side Project Cache, or they might be dropped, and I'll make sure to be transparent about what I'm doing.

I'll do my best to quote this post after every update, so that planmakers can get an easy reminder about what we never quite got to last cycle.
Instead, looking at faflec's previous plan (only partially implemented in the last two cycles) may give better inspiration:
Right, this is a combination of my previous plan (which wasn't implemented AFAIK), and some other things we could do based on new information. Also, @Cariyaga, I really hope this version satisfies your "give Chouza hugs" urge.

[X] Action Plan: Something Old, Something New
Word Count: 299

Get the clan's approval first.
  • Everyone: Iwa's actions are weird. They didn't attack immediately, and are uncharacteristically treating civilians well.
    • Is Akatsuki involved? Maybe they obliterated Iwa, and they're trying to ingratiate themselves to Leaf.
    • Are they trying to subvert the population? How effective would that be?
  • Work on improving living conditions. Cut down nearby trees and build cabins, get hay...
    • We've done this before. Rince & repeat from before.
  • Spend our time helping (and comforting) the current leadership (Asuma, Shikamaru, Chouza). Make ourselves indispensible to them.
    • Mari, what can we do to help lighten the burden of their tasks? Especially Asuma/Shikamaru, they must be at the end of their ropes.
    • Chouza's probably beside himself with survivor's guilt; he's one of the few surviving Clan Heads. Hazou still may be compromised, but someone else can surely check up on him.
      • Give OliWhail carte blanche to write this scene.
    • Suggestions for the top brass:
      • Investigate the relief party's story.
        • Send (airborne) scouts to the border, check what forces are amassing.
        • Find their lumber merchant to verify their story.
      • Contact Suna. They might have been hit too.
      • Leverage Ami, either by demonstrating Mist's already helping or by present a strong Leaf-Mist alliance to deter an attack.
      • Instate Asuma as Hokage, demonstrating Leaf's still unified and capable of fighting back.
      • Reveal Orochimaru's survival, as an invasion would pit him against Iwa.
    • Ask Mari to subtly prime the leadership into favoring the jutsupool idea, if reasonable.
  • In our spare time:
    • Hazou, Kagome: Sealing.
      • Hazou: Organize, copy (in IN), and pick out seals that'll be useful in the short-medium term.
      • Kagome: Complete seal research.
    • Noburi: IFF Asuma/Keiko are still teaching, join Neji's Summoning training.
    • Mari: Work with the MC to speed up approval of ONE of our proposals, whichever she thinks is best.
 
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I want to set up a schoolhouse for academy students and children, and then a night school for adults. We can eventually expand it later into a university.
 
I really liked this update, it was a lot of fun wholesome sensible stuff being done, and getting some secondhand J-man content is great. Hang on my dude, we'll get there eventually!

So, I think it's time to go speak to the devil about extra-dimensional terrorthings...
 
"We're using me as a metric, since we don't have anything better. In order to be hired they need to have available chakra equal to at least half of my total reserves. If, after being drained, they still have enough chakra available to qualify then we'll hire them again to buy half of what's left, same price. Got all that?"

The beginnings of consistent Chakra measurement with a base for comparison! Woot! That's so cool!

Oh, and of course this misstep would make him a perfect subject for perpetual blackmail. From now on she owned him; he would put whatever she wanted on the Council's agenda, and scratch her itch whenever she was in the mood.

Y'all remember when we were concerned about Mari, but didn't do anything about it because busy/utility/bringing it up was hard? Well, we got what we hoped and feared, I suppose.

"No, you're missing my point. What you see is not real, but what you experience is. Time isn't what you think it is...it doesn't really exist, it's just an artifact of our limited perception. The truth is that everything is eternal, and our perception of past and future as distinct things is a limit of our own minds." He paused for a moment and then started

Ah, I see the out and us are still rubbing off on him. But it was a thoughtful speech and effort, and I'd be entertained if the Goketsu found a niche as the therapy clan.

Kagome-sensei blushed and looked at the ground for a moment. "I don't think I was good at it with her. She didn't say anything when I talked to her."

We've recently been noticing the Huge strides Hazou has made since "insert foot open mouth" days. And I'm so happy about that. But can we also appreciate how far Kagome has come? Noticing other's feelings, attempting to help, paying attention to the impact on others, and all this with a stranger! He's come so far! 10/10, best waifu to the hivemind.

"I started with the most recent papers and I've been working backwards. I figured that all his best work would be the most recent stuff, after he got good. A lot of it is weird, but it's very thorough and consistent. Each entry has the name and a detailed description of the seal and what it does, then an even more detailed description of the experience that gave him the idea, then a whole section of relevant theory, then safety warnings, then dimensional and geometric analysis, then a chakra flow map, then the actual blank and infusion instructions, and finally the safety warnings again. Each seal has its own folio and even when two seals use some of the same theory, it's always repeated." He grinned. "That's been a big help, actually! Stupid stinker! Having known plaintext in a predictable location makes it way easier to crack a code." He frowned again. "Although he changes codes often.

Not only does this make me like J-dad more, but between this and the Chakra measurement earlier, and seal crafting experience, and ideas like the cisterns, we're pretty much at the scientific method/semi-modern rigor! That's super encouraging. And with Kagome as safety officer, we can skip the civ quest part and jump straight to Shonen power escalation!

But for real, that was an excellent chapter @eaglejarl thank you. I'm glad our trust was absolutely not misplaced.
 
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"I'm sure we can work something out," she murmured, pressing her lips to his and cupping his cheek with one hand. His entire body froze for a moment and then his arms clutched tight around her, his breath coming thick and fast as he lost himself in her scent and the heat of her body.

I'm glad Mari's having fun, a bit of sex and control is probably good for her.

That said, I've got a prediction that the thread response to this development will be largely negative and I hope I'm wrong. Sure, it's a bit abusive, what with the blackmail and all, but still significantly better than the standard means of control in the EN.

There's also a few things that Mari already knows but we should tell her anyway.
  • Don't betray people you end up getting close to. Don't get close to people whom you intend to betray. Basically if you end up caring about someone, we should try to ensure that they end up better off for it by their own measure. Hazou will work with you on this.
  • Don't have kids with someone who wouldn't be a welcome and valued addition to the clan.
  • Try to use the carrot more than the stick with manipulation. Domination by fear is much less stable than domination by love or shared self-interest.
"No, you're missing my point. What you see is not real, but what you experience is. Time isn't what you think it is...it doesn't really exist, it's just an artifact of our limited perception. The truth is that everything is eternal, and our perception of past and future as distinct things is a limit of our own minds." He paused for a moment and then started over. "A person exists apart from time. They are whole things, spanning four dimensions and stretching into the future and the past. What we see in the present is no more the person than a slice taken out of the middle of a carrot is the carrot. Except there isn't really a 'present'. A human mind takes time to perceive things, and therefore what you see always lags behind what's actually out there. You don't interact with people as they are, you interact with them as they were. You aren't actually hearing what I say as I say it, you're remembering what I said a moment ago. ..."

Huh, that's remarkably close to my own beliefs.

Hazō considered that. Kagome-sensei was important to him, and it was apparent that the man was emotionally vulnerable right now. The nature of future memories of him was, at every not-really-a-moment, subject to change based on the instructions generated by Hazō's will and enacted by Hazō's body. Eye contact, weight shifts, face shape, pauses, 'time' of day and 'distance' from home, word choice and intonation...anything and everything came together to shape the so-called future. What would shape Kagome-sensei's 'future' along the path preferable to both the man himself and the 'rest of the world'?

I like this Hazou. He's a little detached, but he still cares.
 
Anyone know the mean and standard deviation for how long people can do similar things to what Mari has been doing without breaking?
 
I'm glad Mari's having fun, a bit of sex and control is probably good for her.

That said, I've got a prediction that the thread response to this development will be largely negative and I hope I'm wrong. Sure, it's a bit abusive, what with the blackmail and all, but still significantly better than the standard means of control in the EN.
I'm a little concerned about it, because I'm concerned about everything Mari does these days, but this isn't out-of-the-ordinary behaviour imo. Jiraiya and Mari mutually agreed that they weren't gonna be monogamous, and Mari's, ahem, specialization means that sleeping with strangers isn't anything new to her.

In a hypothetical world where Mari wasn't broken glass held together by duct tape and sociopathy, if Mari did this I wouldn't bat an eye, so it doesn't really make me concerned here either. Especially since her internal narration shows that she does want to do this for its own sake, separate from the utility it provides.
 
That said, I've got a prediction that the thread response to this development will be largely negative and I hope I'm wrong. Sure, it's a bit abusive, what with the blackmail and all, but still significantly better than the standard means of control in the EN.
Yeah, when I was writing it I was wondering if it would trample on the mods' tender sensibilities and get me infracted. Shouldn't -- there's no actual coercion happening, even though he's being led to do something that he knows is against his best interests. (i.e., cheat on his wife) He's important enough that, unlike most civilians, he's not worried about her actually hurting/killing him, and she never made any threats or used anything aside from normal human seduction. She was aggressively sexual but would have backed off if he had actually protested, since forcing herself on him would have produced the exact opposite results of what she was trying for: He would have had a legitimate complaint to bring in front of the tribunal (the secretary could have provided evidence if Kiyomoto had called out) and she would have had a much harder time influencing anyone in the future.

There's also a few things that Mari already knows but we should tell her anyway.
Note: That scene is OOC information that Hazō does not have.
 
Anyone know the mean and standard deviation for how long people can do similar things to what Mari has been doing without breaking?
She's a ninja and a Jonin, so shes already beyond fucked up by our standards. I don't think we have in universe data to say anything on the point.
 
She did things like that for most of her life without breaking for what that's worth.
I don't quite know what I mean by things like that and the analogs I expect in real life but I'll try to elaborate. Meant more like Mari leaving ninja retirement, not making Zen gardens, pushing her moral compass onto Hazou, being too busy to grieve, etc.
She's a ninja and a Jonin, so shes already beyond fucked up by our standards. I don't think we have in universe data to say anything on the point.
Meant real life data. Which won't completely apply but can give helpful ideas, especially when looking at the deviation/range.
 
I don't quite know what I mean by things like that and the analogs I expect in real life but I'll try to elaborate. Meant more like Mari leaving ninja retirement, not making Zen gardens, pushing her moral compass onto Hazou, being too busy to grieve, etc.

Meant real life data. Which won't completely apply but can give helpful ideas, especially when looking at the deviation/range.

There isn't a valid point of comparison. She used chakra magic BS to murder all the parts of herself she had spent a year growing which were interfering with the mission Hazou gave her. She'll be fine indefinitely, so long as you are content with her being a sociopathic tool of her mission instead of her own person.
 
There isn't a valid point of comparison. She used chakra magic BS to murder all the parts of herself she had spent a year growing which were interfering with the mission Hazou gave her. She'll be fine indefinitely, so long as you are content with her being a sociopathic tool of her mission instead of her own person.
TBF her POV in this chapter reads very much like her POV way back during the Hot Springs mission, which is one of the very few she actually has. Or at least it does to me.

...

I'm being insufficiently paranoid, aren't I. Jashin damnit.
 
TBF her POV in this chapter reads very much like her POV way back during the Hot Springs mission, which is one of the very few she actually has. Or at least it does to me.

...

I'm being insufficiently paranoid, aren't I. Jashin damnit.
It was true that Jiraiya had been a joker, but Hazō found himself wondering what sort of mentality would lie about past events when recording them in a private, encrypted journal hidden away from the world in a place that no one except the owner even knew about until it was revealed in his will.

Maybe Mari tricked herself into thinking she's still okay even when she's not; perpetuating a lie by becoming a mask that not even she knows when will begin to fracture?
High level ninja be weird yo.
 
The "compensation" line of seals: the idea was originally from a drunken research session after totally not getting jealous seeing Mari calm Kagome down by totally not flirting with him. Jiraiya kept it because the idea is interesting, and named it such because he could poke fun at himself every now and then.

Over-compensation: activated via damage to the seal, the seal multiplies (attempting to activate more than 12 at the same point causes a sealing failure.) the pressure/heat of a localized area around where it was destroyed. The primary usecase is to throw it alongside an explosive tag to multiply the intensity of the explosion several fold. "I'll show you explosions, 'stinker'" was muttered frequently during development. Training with them allows access to stunt "Kagome's Bliss" which allows you to make a single attack with a weapon of attack n, where n is the number of explosive or explosive adjacent seals on you. This attack is unblockable as long as it's unexpected, and it hits everything in a 2 zone radius.

Under-Compensation: Permeates a 1 zone radius with mist that passes through any type of water-proofing. An excellent anti-sealmaster tag, just be careful to not wreck your own seals. Jiraiya was planning several pranks on his family with these. A note in his research log says "Do not EVER let Naruto know these exist."

Drunke-Compensation: only partially researched, the notes saying a planned "meta-seal" that changed the effects of other seals in its radius. Scrapped due to very high probability of sealing failures.
 
blue-dotted storage seal
should check with kagome whether this has safety concerns. if not should see how much we can draw on a seal, has interesting applications
typo
Time isn't what you think it is...it doesn't really exist, it's just an artifact of our limited perception. The truth is that everything is eternal, and our perception of past and future as distinct things is a limit of our own minds." He paused for a moment and then started over. "A person exists apart from time. They are whole things, spanning four dimensions and stretching into the future and the past.
Anyone able to explain or link a resource that explains what this all means? Assuming this worldview exists in real life
She used chakra magic BS to murder all the parts of herself she had spent a year growing which were interfering with the mission Hazou gave her.
We should confirm whether this is what she did then, and learn more about TLitF in the process. Or whether she used other methods.
what sort of mentality would lie about past events
anyone know what the lie was?
 
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"I'm sure we can work something out," she murmured[.]

This... this cut into my heart. She wanted out of the ninja life. She wanted to retire. She wanted to pop out babies and maybe dabble in leaf's social politics. She didn't want to to do I&S missions. She didn't want to twist and coerce and break. But now she is. She's right back to where she started, but worse because she's accepted herself as the person she (incorrectly) feared she was. Can we get Mari some help? Please? @eaglejarl, you're breaking my heart!

[...] especially since the Rock ninja are taking some of the load.
[...] hire a Leaf ninja—only a Leaf ninja, not a Rock ninja—who knows the Multiple Earth Wall jutsu.

Smart, I still don't trust them... And it's a good way to ensure leaf money stays in the leaf economy, while also displaying a loyalty to their adoptive country.

"You. Uh...Kimura, yeah. I'm...I'm sorry about your loss. You know—your whole family getting killed in the cave-in. That was unfair. Shouldn't have happened."

Kagome's a genuine pleasure to experience. Can we throw him at Mari for a bit? Would his sheer amount of honesty help? It might make her feel like shit in comparison (he's nothing but truth, she's everything but the truth), but would it hurt like self-flagellation or would it hurt like resetting a poorly-healed broken bone?

Time isn't what you think it is...it doesn't really exist, it's just an artifact of our limited perception. The truth is that everything is eternal, and our perception of past and future as distinct things is a limit of our own minds.
A person exists apart from time. They are whole things, spanning four dimensions and stretching into the future and the past.
Discussing the nature of reality, the paint-thin coating that was the world around them, had reminded him of what lay beneath that paint. It left his mind shifted...still attached to the meat that made sounds but not entirely within it.

Yup. Hanzo's a baby Outer Thing in a human Womb. He's never really displayed this skill at thought/feeling-to-words before (see: Foot in Mouth). This insight was gained by his Trip to the Out. Or maybe he met a friendly Thing and it's helping to crystallize/clarify these thoughts? (it kinda happened before, when a Thing helped him out of the rift...maybe it's the same one?)

"Anyway, it's not hard, it's just overly ornate. It seems like it could be simplified a lot, which isn't something you want in a seal. And the name is too long to use in combat, so what's the point?!"

Maybe it was a proof-of-concept and that the "overly ornate" bits are just safety redundancies on top of safety redundancies? And the name is just a mix of him being himself but also finding a long and unique mix of words that wouldn't trigger by accident? I mean, one act can have multiple reasons, after all...
 
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This... this cut into my heart. She wanted out of the ninja life. She wanted to retire. She wanted to pop out babies and maybe dabble in leaf's social politics. She didn't want to to do I&S missions. She didn't want to twist and coerce and break. But now she is. She's right back to where she started. Can we get Mari some help? Please?




Smart, I still don't trust them... And it's a good way to ensure leaf money stays in the leaf economy, while also displaying a loyalty to their adoptive country.



Kagome's a genuine pleasure to experience. Can we throw him at Mari for a bit? Would his sheer amount of honesty might help... It might make her feel like shit in comparison (he's nothing but truth, she's everything but the truth), but would it hurt like self-flagellation or would it hurt like resetting a poorly-healed broken bone?





Yup. Hanzo's a baby Outer Thing in a human Womb. He's never really displayed this skill at thought/feeling-to-words before (see: Foot in Mouth). This insight was gained by his Trip to the Out. Or maybe he met a friendly Thing and it's helping to crystallize/clarify these thoughts? (it kinda happened before, when a Thing helped him out of the rift...maybe it's the same one?)



Maybe it was a proof-of-concept and that the "overly ornate" bits are just safety redundancies on top of safety redundancies? And the name is just a mix of him being himself but also finding a long and unique mix of words that wouldn't trigger by accident? I mean, one act can have multiple reasons, after all...

I bet buttons to bells that the ornate stuff is to make the seal sound like Jiraiya specifically. Kagome said he thinks all that junk is to make really small changes. Like modulations to a human voice perhaps
 
This... this cut into my heart. She wanted out of the ninja life. She wanted to retire. She wanted to pop out babies and maybe dabble in leaf's social politics. She didn't want to to do I&S missions. She didn't want to twist and coerce and break. But now she is. She's right back to where she started. Can we get Mari some help? Please?




Smart, I still don't trust them... And it's a good way to ensure leaf money stays in the leaf economy, while also displaying a loyalty to their adoptive country.



Kagome's a genuine pleasure to experience. Can we throw him at Mari for a bit? Would his sheer amount of honesty might help... It might make her feel like shit in comparison (he's nothing but truth, she's everything but the truth), but would it hurt like self-flagellation or would it hurt like resetting a poorly-healed broken bone?





Yup. Hanzo's a baby Outer Thing in a human Womb. He's never really displayed this skill at thought/feeling-to-words before (see: Foot in Mouth). This insight was gained by his Trip to the Out. Or maybe he met a friendly Thing and it's helping to crystallize/clarify these thoughts? (it kinda happened before, when a Thing helped him out of the rift...maybe it's the same one?)



Maybe it was a proof-of-concept and that the "overly ornate" bits are just safety redundancies on top of safety redundancies? And the name is just a mix of him being himself but also finding a long and unique mix of words that wouldn't trigger by accident? I mean, one act can have multiple reasons, after all...

Maybe Mari tricked herself into thinking she's still okay even when she's not; perpetuating a lie by becoming a mask that not even she knows when will begin to fracture?
High level ninja be weird yo.

There's no mask. TLiF kills. Herself and her victim. At the very least she sincerely believes that she killed Hazou and paid "the coward's price" while doing it.

There's no healing Mari. OldMari is dead. NewMari might be able to repeat the same growth, but it
 
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