Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
There's the rule of law that is present in Leaf that Hiashi wielded against Naruto. We can't just do whatever we want and expect only positive outcome, like from assassinating Hiashi. It would also risk encouraging assassination norms within Leaf whenever someone some ninja don't like become dictator.
It's better for us to undermine Hiashi until he's all but a political failure.
It's better for us to undermine Hiashi until he's all but a political failure.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
- Location
- Yes.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Is Lens of Violence, if purchased, always used from that point on? In other words, would Hazou have to go full-lethal during every fight, regardless of whether or not he wants to?
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
No. The full-lethal clause is invoked IF you want the bonus to your roll.
That's a big part of why we liked them as well. @MadScientist, ya did good
- Location
- Yes.
Thanks. What about Prophet to the Out, how "close" are we talking about? Uplift is a given, what would happen if Tsunade reminded us to eat? Honoka? Shikamaru? <insert person Hazou got assigned to for a mission>?No. The full-lethal clause is invoked IF you want the bonus to your roll.
That's a big part of why we liked them as well. @MadScientist, ya did good
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
"Close" probably refers to anyone that could conceivably knock Hazou out of his research funk. So Tsunade probably counts because she would physically drag him, for example.
It's just you have to be close to him to actually be able to get near him in that state.
It's just you have to be close to him to actually be able to get near him in that state.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Thats fine in general abstraction but not-so-fine to apply uniformly on a case by case basis, especially when it comes to both specific instances and our entire mission of "Fix this world up." which has a bulletpoint of "This requires we stop asshats becoming all powerful dictators, which in and of itself requires we figure out a workaround or successor to the current political system and implement it in a (likely) definitionally subversive manner."
tl;dr:
"But thats illegal!" ," But thats treason!" , and "We should follow the law and work within the system." are bad arguments to apply blindly, and they're almost always counterproductive to include in in-thread brainstorming -- if something is literally illegal/treason then we likely know it. If its treason/illegal and the implementation has INSURMOUNTABLE obstacles that weren't obvious to us, then either Hazou, or someone-smarter-than-Hazou will realize this and let us know.
tl;dr: tl;dr:
[X] Declare that all responses and rebuttals and remarks to the effect of "But that's illegal!" are themselves illegal.
- So that I may respond to them with "But that's illegal!
"But that's illegal!
/endsnark
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For prophet of the out, would a clause that says
"Eat a fistful of food every 4 hours. Drink a cup every hour. Sleep 8 hours every day. Excrete every day." included in every plan mitigate the consequences?
"Eat a fistful of food every 4 hours. Drink a cup every hour. Sleep 8 hours every day. Excrete every day." included in every plan mitigate the consequences?
I disagree with that point, and find that the main reason we should mention potential illegal/treason stuff
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Just get a maid/civilian hired to feed us every day, or civilians as it may be.
Or go the Orochimaru route and transcend such petty mortal limitations.
- Location
- United States
Probably not, since iirc the plans are filtered through Hazou and thus can't completely prevent him from forgetting to eat in search of eldritch knowledge.
We could certainly put in a plan for someone else to remind Hazou of those things, but that likely ends with them thinking he is unfit to be in charge of himself, let alone the clan.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
It's irrelevant in so far as there is an explicit and tangible benefit to be gained from disregarding legality. As a general concept, sure, I acknowledge that "rigidly obeying the law" is not likely to be in our benefit. In specific, "help a foreign organized crime syndicate severely disrupt the sociopolitical structure in place in "the good/nice country" so that they can establish their organized crime activities in that place" has yet to, in any manner whatsoever, establish any sort of benefit that outstrips the significant amount of chaos (and resulting harm) that would happen.
On top of all of that, the fact that this would still almost certainly be evaluated by even our close allies in the village as treasonous (and thus would support severe negative consequences if found out). You can say that this isn't a valid argument, but you must at least acknowledge that this is an increased risk vs other plans that do not do so, especially without a mitigation strategy in place to convince literally anyone other than those who already agree.
I've been containing my excitement over these stunts for days because I didn't want to get people's hopes up for cool shinies in case ideas were going to get shot down.
Some comments (summarised from the discussion):
Some comments (summarised from the discussion):
- Summoning Scroll Acolyte
- This means that whenever Hazou causes a seal failure, he is going into that encounter with a minimum of a minor physical consequence.
- The research cycle goes from "work 3 days for the +6 bonus, infuse a prototype, repeat" to "work 3 days for the +6 bonus, infuse a prototype, do other stuff for 2 days, repeat". Since we do eventually need to get around to doing other stuff, this is not terrible.
- I doubt the players would ever push Hazou to a severe consequence, but we have been given just enough rope to hang ourselves with: research focussed players (glances at self) may be tempted to have Hazou skip the "other stuff" step and go straight back into research, incurring a moderate physical consequence. Now imagine facing a sealing failure with that on the books.
- Lens of Violence
- +2 physical stress is pretty harsh. Don't get hit.
- Prophet of the Out
- Considered terrifying.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
1) Yes, thats why we pretty much always do that. See next sentence?
2) I disagree with your disagreement: we probably have at least a solid idea when something is by-the-books-treason 60% of the time or so.
MEANWHILE:
>Summoning Scroll Acolyte
YESSSSSS!
>Prophet of the Out
We've been told to have pretty powerful control over Hazou though. We can literally make Hazou like chicken in one update, and make him not like it in the next and make him believe that he's never liked chicken.
I'd agree with something in the ballpark of 60%. I just think that mentioning something is treasonous is worthwhile in case the situation falls under that 40%. It's only a 1 sentence comment.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I note that we should probably purchase the first stunt like yesterday, especially if we plan on rushing SC, since the benefits there scale with time and outweigh our current Aspect Maluses by a decent amount.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
From an OOC perspective - a negative consequence that could be subverted just by pointlessly inflating the word count of every voted in plan isn't a negative consequence, it's just pointlessly annoying for both the players and the QMs. Using only this logic, there's no way that's what's intended or would be accepted.
That is nonsense without any context.
I agree. I found the stunt too easily exploited which is why I asked the question.
What context do you seek?
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
In most cases, having a physical human being nagging at him with sufficient determination would probably be enough. As with most things, we take advice more willingly from those we care about and discard inconvenient information from those we don't care about. Be good, EJ and remember the mantra: I will not discuss politics, religion, or climate change denial. I will not discuss politics, religion, or climate change denial. I will not discuss politics, religion, or climate change denial.
No.
Erm...no? That is not a thing you can do. Back in the day, y'all voted to give Hazō his own agency. That means you aren't able to overwrite his preferences and knowledgebase. Likewise, you can't drop 21st knowledge straight into his brain. etc
EDIT:
Note that that aspect of the stunt is mostly for flavor. The actual balance is via the cost.
Hopefully we costed it correctly.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I expect "Hire a babysitter" would work against safeguarding severe consequences and medium consequences that would result from "Not taking care of yourself" but not necessarily against more esoteric consequences like "Mentally out of whack" and "Gl'bgolyb sends the Nightmares ." or something.