Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
Given the latter, it might be a bit... jumping the gun... to alert Leaf. Especially since it seems increasingly likely that Mist leadership maybe probably didn't, in fact, sentence us to die in a very circumspect and clearly ineffective manner. The better question here would be... who would benefit from this?
My initial guess, from the information we have available in character, would be that Fire might want to weaken Water to enable easier access to the lands further east, especially if they want to establish something like Sky as a remote outpost for a pincer attack on Lightning. Out of character, we can guess that the Mizukage could still be a jinchuriki, so Akatsuke could possibly benefit from destabilizing a country led by one, though that sounds rather flimsy as an excuse.
Rihaku
The Internet
Offscreen, it's why she's Mizukage.
Yeah, it wouldn't be great for Mist if that letter got sent, I just don't think we have any ability to stop our jounin if they want to send that letter, and I doubt they haven't thought of it. If they actually are allied with Konoha, of course, they wouldn't even need to send such a letter.
? Where has it been stated that our mother is a Jounin? I feel almost certain that she isn't, what with all the bills. I mean, a village would need to be stupid to pay their 5% best forces badly enough for them to rack up huge debts.
She is either a career Genin/Chunin or she retired after getting a child. Which seems unlikely given that a single jounin is a whole 2% of Hidden Mists forces. One would think there would be huge pressure on female Jounin to either not get children or to get back into the game as soon as humanly possible after getting them.
She is either a career Genin/Chunin or she retired after getting a child. Which seems unlikely given that a single jounin is a whole 2% of Hidden Mists forces. One would think there would be huge pressure on female Jounin to either not get children or to get back into the game as soon as humanly possible after getting them.
Rihaku
The Internet
Idea!
We know in canon Naruto there are neutral bounty offices around the Elemental Nations, I guess for logistical reasons since it'd otherwise be extremely difficult to verifiably satisfy both issuer and bounty hunter (if you're a Mist hunter-nin and kill a Konoha missing nin, the Iwa nin who placed that bounty would have no reason to trust simply the word of Hidden Mist that you'd done so, but similarly you would not be willing to go to Hidden Earth to get your money, thus a neutral well-distributed third party is ideal).
We can check whether our party has been added to the bingo book, and make some serious money too, if we kept the head of the jounin who died or know roughly where he died. We just need to go to one of these offices disguised as some random farmer who found this ninja's dead body, saw the forehead protector and wondered if he could collect. Most jounins have bounties on 'em already, and if Mist has placed another one we would both know the magnitude and get the extra cash from that.
Going to a bounty office in general would be a good idea, since they'd know what the most recent movements in bounty economics would be. If Mist actually placed a bounty on 20+ nin recently, it would certainly be news.
Well, ideally 'we' wouldn't be doing this (though I do hope we still get the XP for making a 'creative plan'), but rather a chunin specialized in infiltration. The best bounty office would be one that is in a misleading position, either somewhere in Fire away from the swamp or somewhere in one of the relative close neighboring countries. If we don't have the jounin's head on us, the influx of cash and info should be enough to justify Shikigami-sensei sending a few Shadow Clones on a couple-hour task (maybe shorter, since jounin probably travel a lot faster unencumbered than babysitting a party) to retrieve it.
Once we have cash, survival would be a lot easier; there are tons of non-Hidden-Village cities in Fire Country where a chunin-level infiltrator should be able to purchase basic camping / survival supplies in decent quantities by posing as a merchant.
@AugSphere @eaglejarl, would this plan be viable?
We know in canon Naruto there are neutral bounty offices around the Elemental Nations, I guess for logistical reasons since it'd otherwise be extremely difficult to verifiably satisfy both issuer and bounty hunter (if you're a Mist hunter-nin and kill a Konoha missing nin, the Iwa nin who placed that bounty would have no reason to trust simply the word of Hidden Mist that you'd done so, but similarly you would not be willing to go to Hidden Earth to get your money, thus a neutral well-distributed third party is ideal).
We can check whether our party has been added to the bingo book, and make some serious money too, if we kept the head of the jounin who died or know roughly where he died. We just need to go to one of these offices disguised as some random farmer who found this ninja's dead body, saw the forehead protector and wondered if he could collect. Most jounins have bounties on 'em already, and if Mist has placed another one we would both know the magnitude and get the extra cash from that.
Going to a bounty office in general would be a good idea, since they'd know what the most recent movements in bounty economics would be. If Mist actually placed a bounty on 20+ nin recently, it would certainly be news.
Well, ideally 'we' wouldn't be doing this (though I do hope we still get the XP for making a 'creative plan'), but rather a chunin specialized in infiltration. The best bounty office would be one that is in a misleading position, either somewhere in Fire away from the swamp or somewhere in one of the relative close neighboring countries. If we don't have the jounin's head on us, the influx of cash and info should be enough to justify Shikigami-sensei sending a few Shadow Clones on a couple-hour task (maybe shorter, since jounin probably travel a lot faster unencumbered than babysitting a party) to retrieve it.
Once we have cash, survival would be a lot easier; there are tons of non-Hidden-Village cities in Fire Country where a chunin-level infiltrator should be able to purchase basic camping / survival supplies in decent quantities by posing as a merchant.
@AugSphere @eaglejarl, would this plan be viable?
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Rihaku
The Internet
It's canon that she's a jounin. She's not retired, she just has jounin-sized debts. There is no job so lucrative that it can outstrip the theoretical capability of humans to spend, for obvious reasons. My headcanon is that she and our father bought a house and other stuff assuming they'd retain a 2-jounin salary, then when he died she struggled to stay afloat with one.
In Asian families, 3-4 generations in one home is typical, and I imagine real estate is quite expensive in island-nation Hidden Mist. A large house in a brutal housing market would easily outstrip the ability of two well-compensated professionals to afford, if they lost half their income in the middle of paying the mortgage.
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Right now, I think we only have weak evidence either way, but here's my basic analysis of evidence for and against Shikigami being allied with Fire based solely on knowledge our character has access to.
Evidence Shikigami may be allied with Fire:
Note that all of this is very weak evidence, and there are explanations for pretty much all of the evidence he might be allied with them. Taken together, it can be a compelling case... or just a coincidence. It's definitely worth predicting what the different actions Shikigami would take if he's allied with Fire or not are though. Here's what I came up with for actions Shikigami is likely to take if he is allied with Fire.
Evidence Shikigami may be allied with Fire:
- Knowledge of Swamp
- Lack of pursuit into Swamp
- Choice of Fire nation over other locations
- Lack of sighting (and thus fighting) Leaf trackers
- Violence with other Jounin when defecting (might be over forged documents)
- Defected from Mist
- Most of the explainations for the above come from Shikigami
- Default assumption would be he's loyal to Mist
- All of the reasons to suspect Shikigami have explanations
Note that all of this is very weak evidence, and there are explanations for pretty much all of the evidence he might be allied with them. Taken together, it can be a compelling case... or just a coincidence. It's definitely worth predicting what the different actions Shikigami would take if he's allied with Fire or not are though. Here's what I came up with for actions Shikigami is likely to take if he is allied with Fire.
- Shikigami hiding communication with Fire
- Shikigami insisting on being first contact with Fire
- Relatively easy acceptance by Fire
- Additional "convenient" knowledge about Fire country
- Encouragement to not engage Fire ninja
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- Location
- Mu
I suppose Jounin who have children with other ninja are more likely to produce strong offspring, which would balance it out at least to some extent. Not that you wouldn't want to have them working again as soon as possible, but some time off to have children could easily be considered an investment in the future of the village, even without considering bloodline limits. Also, having their own children in the village is a pretty great way to keep Jounin motivated to work for the sake of said village. Social bonds and all that. Not that there aren't other incentives acting on them as well, but keeping the secret agent kung fu wizards happy is probably pretty important.
All in all, it wouldn't be surprising for a Jounin to have had children during peacetime. Being in debt does confuse me somewhat, though.
- Location
- Mu
This is a really cool idea. Unfortunately, the bodies have been left in a death swamp for at least a day, surrounded by carnivores. I'm not sure there's going to be a whole lot of evidence even if we went and looked for it immediately. Really, we'd have needed to take the bodies with us as they fell, which we weren't in a position to do.
Alternatively, if the bodies are still obtainable, they're a method by which we could feasibly be tracked through the swamp and are worth dealing with anyway even if they're so ruined we can't get the bounties on them. It's at least worth mentioning to someone, though I wouldn't be surprised if Shikigami openly scoffed at the idea of there being anything identifiable or recoverable left over once the gators were done.
Mainly because the narrative clearly states that our father was out a lot on missions while nothing is said about our mother. Now, she could be working in the village in T&I or the hospital or something.
And i still haven't found the part where it says that she is a Jounin.
Rihaku
The Internet
We have jounin-grade Clones available. Tracking down the specific croc with that guy's skull and forehead protector in it is probably not even on the difficulty level of a B-rank mission, assuming it didn't end up somewhere even easier to find like the swamp floor. Alternatively, picking up personal effects / dog-tag equivalents sufficient to prove his identity shouldn't be impossible, since it's only between several hours / a day since we got here.
Honestly, our chances of survival would be MUCH higher if Shikigami sold Mist out to Fire. Fire would be prepared to protect their ally from hunter-nin, and Mist can't afford to lose even a single extra jounin after the losses they took. I just don't think we should be so optimistic as to think Shikigami has a powerful ally to call upon, since we can't really plan for it.
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- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
This seems like a good idea, unfortunately, I doubt we'll get another voting period before we leave camp in which we can change plans. That said, it's something to keep in mind if any more of our village dies. Might be worth using Iron Nerve to perfect quick decapitation of prone bodies (should we stumble across any prone bodies and not already have such a skill).
Agreed in retrospect I wasn't thinking of the benefit or cost to us much when I wrote that post, just what evidence would point one way or another.
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Missing bodies that are hard to find are good for us, so that anyone hunting us can't be sure who survived, who died, and who is waiting to counter ambush them. To that end, some of the ninja should Henge themselves into other ninja, alive or dead, from our group, when around camp or in the swamp, so that no one can tell who lived or who died, just from watching us. In particular, we should always have at least 1 hidden Jonin.
- Location
- Mu
If there's something to find, they could probably find it, but my point is that we can't be sure there will be much to find. This isn't a normal swamp. Apparently we've barely even begun to learn of the horrors in store for us. I think it's a good idea and worth acting on anyway, as it's not as though it costs us anything to mention it to someone. Low cost, high potential pay off.
It seems an understatement to describe it as "Not even a B-rank mission" though, considering it was a B-rank mission just to go find Tsunade in a bar. The body to be recovered is that of a dead Jounin who was killed by the swamp while on his guard. This seems like solid evidence the area is dangerous for Jounin, too, if only because they almost certainly won't know what to expect from the flora/fauna they encounter. Then again, they're sending out Genin teams to go hunting, so either it isn't as bad as I'm envisioning or we're about to die horrifically from some chakra-infused flesh eating infection.
- Location
- Australia
Ok i have to ask why are the Ninja numbers so low? Minato alone is mean't to have taken out hundreds in Manga and anime says a thousand in one battle, combined with the tiny pool of jounin this mission is literally insane on any scale, if chunin are the main stream it makes more sense but the numbers of total ninja of each village is still too low.
Naruto has never indicated a small number of ninja hell considering three wars combining all five elemental nations within a hundred year span, this number makes it seem like they were mere skirmishes, how the hell are numbers replenished? Ninja combat is insanely lethal.
I guess if the setting is more of Ninjas are the elite small pool and normal soldiers fight a lot as well but ninjas are just so far above them the only use normal people have is to garrison town it makes more sense but missing nin should be a tiny phenomenon not even enough to make a living as a bounty hunter or a dedicated job as a hunter nin, unless desertion rates are astronomical.
Naruto has never indicated a small number of ninja hell considering three wars combining all five elemental nations within a hundred year span, this number makes it seem like they were mere skirmishes, how the hell are numbers replenished? Ninja combat is insanely lethal.
I guess if the setting is more of Ninjas are the elite small pool and normal soldiers fight a lot as well but ninjas are just so far above them the only use normal people have is to garrison town it makes more sense but missing nin should be a tiny phenomenon not even enough to make a living as a bounty hunter or a dedicated job as a hunter nin, unless desertion rates are astronomical.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
We liked it better this way. It's actually not that far from certain historical army sizes at similar levels of development in similar sized countries, and those armies included a lot of militia and farmers who were very poorly trained. By comparison ninja essentially have to be trained from an extremely young age to be any good, and their high attrition rate means that once you have trained them, they don't last on the shelf very well.
Also we wanted the players to feel impactful on the world stage. If you somehow through some absurd series of events manage to kill 100 ninja it should be a crowning moment with major effects on the world, not just a drop in the bucket.
- Location
- Australia
Ok, so in this Chunnin would be what the vast majority of Ninja reach in their lifetimes? I guess not everyone has the skill or the drive to go for Jonin and there have been three ninja wars in past hundred years so all the nations are manpower drained constantly, does this mean in the world wars it was actually Fire and Earth at war along with the other nations states with tens of thousands of normal soldiers fighting for key points with ninja being more special forces and siege breakers? I imagine half the job of Shinobi is to counter other Shinobi from slaughtering the normal soldiers, so you could win the ground war but lose the Shinobi war and suddenly have thousand of soldiers dying with no ability to strike back.
It would actually make the Nanbi bridge mission make sense now i guess, that always seemed dodgy to me in a ninja war but if they actually needed it for tens of thousands of soldiers logistic trains it makes more sense. It makes S rankers interesting in the sense of they probably are held in reserve in case the other S rankers of the other side are deployed this as well probably made Minato a demon as he did not have to worry about such things and could deploy with impunity.
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Rihaku
The Internet
It seems an understatement to describe it as "Not even a B-rank mission" though, considering it was a B-rank mission just to go find Tsunade in a bar. The body to be recovered is that of a dead Jounin who was killed by the swamp while on his guard. This seems like solid evidence the area is dangerous for Jounin, too, if only because they almost certainly won't know what to expect from the flora/fauna they encounter. Then again, they're sending out Genin teams to go hunting, so either it isn't as bad as I'm envisioning or we're about to die horrifically from some chakra-infused flesh eating infection.
Eaglejarl has said that the entire party was extremely exhausted / chakra-deprived during our entry into the swamp, which is why casualties were what they were.
- Location
- Canada
We were also wading rather than Water Walking which probably made things worse.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yes. Ninja are not much more durable than a normal person; they survive by not getting hit. Being thigh deep in mud is about their worst possible combat environment.
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- Location
- Yes.
@AugSphere, @eaglejarl, @Velorien, @Jackercracks can we have some numbers for water walking/tree walking costs?
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/They
They're freeeeeeee
