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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
Would someone mind explaining this? I understand it has something to do with Truth Lost In The Fog, which costs Mari nice memories(?) so I'm alarmed on general principle, but the details escape me.
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Mari's eye colour has changed various times throughout the quest. We picked up eventually that uses of the technique Truth Lost In The Fog correlated with changes in eye colour, and things like Mari not using the technique for a long time and Mari's eyes simultaneously staying the same colour for a long time added credence to the idea.

We don't have confirmation, and Mari got evasive when we asked about her eyes changing colour IIRC, but OOC we're fairly confident that TLITF changes Mari's eye colour.
 
Roomba said:
That was actually a really nice chapter @eaglejarl, please don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure I can describe precisely why, but I think it had exactly the right balance of serious-business planning, relevant and thematically appropriate worldbuilding, and casual character interaction. It was pleasant to read, but also felt substantial and important in terms of what was said. Well done.
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Yeah, after that chapter I feel a lot more comfortable doing things. And Kenta and Yukari are absolutely adorable, also.
 
Honestly, I'm half-inclined to throw part of the plan out and replace it with an elaborate section that boils down to "get Mari into a private room, lay out our suspicions about TLitF, ask what she's really been doing".
 
So I suppose the question becomes, what do we do about Mari's eyes and TLitF suspicions? I'm not sure confronting her directly will work, and if we do get answers I'm not sure we can trust them to be entirely accurate or complete.

I wonder if there's anyone we trust who we could ask who might know who isn't Mari. Tsunade perhaps? Even if she doesn't know how the jutsu works, given the weird eye color thing and the other things we know she might be able to make an educated guess with her unparalleled medical knowledge.

...oh god. Ami would almost certainly know. She's an infiltration spec that Mari trained. Even if she doesn't know the jutsu herself she probably knows how it works. And if Mari's doing something to hurt herself with it, I think Ami would actually genuinely care and want to help. I don't think she'd need a favor for it. As a bonus, if it turns out Mari was using TLitF somewhat inappropriately on people in Leaf, I think Ami would be less likely to take exception that Tsunade would.
 
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Noumero said:
Honestly, I'm half-inclined to throw part of the plan out and replace it with an elaborate section that boils down to "get Mari into a private room, lay out our suspicions about TLitF, ask what she's really been doing".
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Its possible shes been using it on enemy social specs as part of continuous sabotage in which case knowing/leaking said information could be highly dangerous.
 
If the memory loss theory is correct, I strongly suspect that Mari's present state of mind would be willing to self-sacrifice to an absurd degree to help the clan. We need to make sure that isn't happening and stop it if it is, at the least.

I'm leaning toward privately talking to Ami in confidence about everything that's been going on with Mari, and our suspicions about TLinF and the eye color changes.
 
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Roomba said:
That was actually a really nice chapter @eaglejarl, please don't sell yourself short. I'm not sure I can describe precisely why, but I think it had exactly the right balance of serious-business planning, relevant and thematically appropriate worldbuilding, and casual character interaction. It was pleasant to read, but also felt substantial and important in terms of what was said. Well done.
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:)
Cariyaga said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail

Did Mari's eye color change between Hazou charging her with the defense of the clan, and her coming out of the room fine and dandy?
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HDK. He's not sure exactly when it changed.
 
Alright, in other news, I'll be implementing my Ami contingency. I'm not convinced by the arguments that it's dangerous, and we'll be sanity-checking it with Mari anyway; the worst that could happen is, she vetoes it and erases our memory of having ever suggested it.

Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Disheartening Lack of All-Consuming Horror
Wordcount: 298
  • Continue the meeting:
    • On Ami:
      • Can we trust her? Alternatively, does Mari have her handled?
      • Any insights into her mind?
      • Should we spend her favour? Ideas:
        • Maximize our political influence in Leaf.
        • "Maximize my social competence".
        • Acquire us IN social training.
    • Could we exploit the Kuronuma/Akasugi conflict?
    • Adoption: What clanless jounin are available?
      • Ami's creating a de-facto 'clanless clan'. Need to act fast.
      • Adopt Kurenai, giving Asuma an opportunity for political marriage?
    • Could Naruto convince Sasuke to support Asuma? They were teammates...
    • Tsunade: Promise her funding before Hiashi?
      • Either through Asuma, or by suggesting collaboration on land-clearing scheme.
    • Could we exchange salt with the Pangolins for gold, then sell gold outside Leaf (like Jiraiya did)?
      • Or go through Asuma, giving him a cut.
      • Could we arbitrage-exploit the two markets?
    • Who are the remaining Leaf jounin? Their political affiliations?
    • What'll happen to the Dog/Turtle Scrolls? Should we reconsider adopting Lee?
  • Prepare for and schedule meetings:
    • Tomorrow: Ino (lunch), Chouza (afternoon), Asuma (dinner).
    • Overmorrow: Shino, Minami, Team Nakano, Keiko (to discuss Summoning).
  • Ami contingency (sanity-check with Mari):
    • Put a sign indoors: "Any Ami Mori who gets through our defenses uninvited to show off (Mari judges) cedes us another favour (–_^)/~~".
    • Carefully introduce her to Kagome.
    • Discuss (Clan + Ami):
      • Akatsuki: They're an existential threat. Suggest collaborating with Ami on dealing with them, pooling information.
        • Is diplomacy possible? Perhaps we can influence their idea of "pursuing peace the hard way"...
      • Establishing communication with her in Mist.
      • Coordinating our Leaf plots.
  • Train creatively.
  • Next day: Meet with Ino.
    • Express our condolences. Reminisce about our fathers.
    • At risk of meddling: Could we do anything for Chouza? He must be feeling awful.
      • Collaborate on a memorial service/a monument?
    • Share political thoughts.
      • Anything important we might've missed?
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eaglejarl said:
HDK. He's not sure exactly when it changed.
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Oh, but he did notice them changing?
MMKII said:
Its possible shes been using it on enemy social specs as part of continuous sabotage in which case knowing/leaking said information could be highly dangerous.
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... Maybe. There are still things she could tell us, such as what this "price" is.

Bah. I hereby precommit to, unless the next update introduces a new high-threat emergency, strongly push for having an extended conversation with her about her recent actions and TLitF.
 
I'd rather focus on the costs to her rather than why she's doing it. We trust her enough to not question what, just the 'price' is the concern.
 
faflec said:
I'd rather focus on the costs to her rather than why she's doing it. We trust her enough to not question what, just the 'price' is the concern.
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Personally, I trust her to do what she needs to do, but would like to remind her that "Keep the clan safe" by definition includes "Keep Mari safe."
 
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Disheartening Lack of All-Consuming Horror
Wordcount: 298
  • Continue the meeting:
    • On Ami:
      • Can we trust her? Alternatively, does Mari have her handled?
      • Any insights into her mind?
      • Should we spend her favour? Ideas:
        • Maximize our political influence in Leaf.
        • "Maximize my social competence".
        • Acquire us IN social training.
    • Could we exploit the Kuronuma/Akasugi conflict?
    • Adoption: What clanless jounin are available?
      • Ami's creating a de-facto 'clanless clan'. Need to act fast.
      • Adopt Kurenai, giving Asuma an opportunity for political marriage?
    • Could Naruto convince Sasuke to support Asuma? They were teammates...
    • Tsunade: Promise her funding before Hiashi?
      • Either through Asuma, or by suggesting collaboration on land-clearing scheme.
    • Could we exchange salt with the Pangolins for gold, then sell gold outside Leaf (like Jiraiya did)?
      • Or go through Asuma, giving him a cut.
      • Could we arbitrage-exploit the two markets?
    • Who are the remaining Leaf jounin? Their political affiliations?
    • What'll happen to the Dog/Turtle Scrolls? Should we reconsider adopting Lee?
  • Prepare for and schedule meetings:
    • Tomorrow: Ino (lunch), Chouza (afternoon), Asuma (dinner).
    • Overmorrow: Shino, Minami, Team Nakano, Keiko (to discuss Summoning).
  • Ami contingency (sanity-check with Mari):
    • Put a sign indoors: "Any Ami Mori who gets through our defenses uninvited to show off (Mari judges) cedes us another favour (–_^)/~~".
    • Carefully introduce her to Kagome.
    • Discuss (Clan + Ami):
      • Akatsuki: They're an existential threat. Suggest collaborating with Ami on dealing with them, pooling information.
        • Is diplomacy possible? Perhaps we can influence their idea of "pursuing peace the hard way"...
      • Establishing communication with her in Mist.
      • Coordinating our Leaf plots.
  • Train creatively.
  • Next day: Meet with Ino.
    • Express our condolences. Reminisce about our fathers.
    • At risk of meddling: Could we do anything for Chouza? He must be feeling awful.
      • Collaborate on a memorial service/a monument?
    • Share political thoughts.
      • Anything important we might've missed?

@MMKII, note the last section. Is it the right one?
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I suspect there's not much Ami could teach Hazou in the social arena that Mari couldn't, if we decide to seriously invest in Hazou's social skills. Maybe specialized stuff at a very high level, but Hazou's nowhere near being a high level social spec and won't be any time soon. Probably best not to spend a favor on that.

Why the reconsider adopting Lee thing, by the way? Does he get the scroll Guy had?

What do you think about telling Ami in confidence about what's been going on with Mari and asking about the eye color changes and our suspicions about TLinF, potentially recruiting her to help Mari because Ami cares about her too? Obviously we can't sanity check it with Mari, but we could with Keiko. In fact, the request coming from Keiko to Ami would probably make it even more likely to work.
 
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eaglejarl said:
I'm a wonderful person who is absolutely on your side and you should totally remember that fact.
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When I first read the chapter this got overshadowed by the Colorful Thing Below.
In the context of the current discussion, it fills me with horrible dread.

@Noumero
Would you be willing to put a sentence or two in the plan telling Akane how we got Mari functional and asking for her opinion on the matter?
 
Torpling said:
Would you be willing to put a sentence or two in the plan telling Akane how we got Mari functional and asking for her opinion on the matter?
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TaliesinSkye said:
What do you think about telling Ami in confidence about what's been going on with Mari and asking about the eye color changes and our suspicions about TLinF, potentially recruiting her to help Mari because Ami cares about her too? Obviously we can't sanity check it with Mari, but we could with Keiko. In fact, the request coming from Keiko to Ami would probably make it even more likely to work.
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It is one thing to give Ami a bullet she is never going to use to shoot us. It is another thing entirely to let her know that our most competent social agent is a shattered soul that is barely functional underneath the mask. This invites far too much in the way of subtle manipulations on her end.
 
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Here's a thought: How about we explain what we did to get Mari functional, TLiTF, and the eye-color theory to Noburi and Akane, see if they have any insight. Akane in particular has shown a scarily good intuition for Mari's internal state. I'm not very confident in us navigating this effectively using Hazou as a medium.
 
TaliesinSkye said:
I suspect there's not much Ami could teach Hazou in the social arena that Mari couldn't, if we decide to seriously invest in Hazou's social skills. Maybe specialized stuff at a very high level, but Hazou's nowhere near being a high level social spec and won't be any time soon. Probably best not to spend a favor on that.

Why the reconsider adopting Lee thing, by the way? Does he get the scroll Guy had?

What do you think about telling Ami in confidence about what's been going on with Mari and asking about the eye color changes and our suspicions about TLinF, potentially recruiting her to help Mari because Ami cares about her too? Obviously we can't sanity check it with Mari, but we could with Keiko. In fact, the request coming from Keiko to Ami would probably make it even more likely to work.
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  • Yes, entirely possible.
  • Yes, because he might've got the scroll.
  • Where to start?
    • How did @Tua put it? This'll be like one of these logic riddles. Which sounds fun, don't get me wrong, but is probably not the most efficient way of doing that.
    • We don't actually know that Ami cares about Mari. For all we know, she hates her like Hana, but she's better at concealing it.
    • Doing that would imply that our trust in Mari is now negative: we're so suspicious of her we're selling her secrets to a relative outsider, so that we may get said outsider's opinion on whether she's lying to us.
    • How do we know Ami isn't in on it? They've had a long off-screen conversation; maybe Ami is fully on board with whatever Mari is doing, and will support her in favour of us.
faflec said:
What is the Ami contingency for? It's not entirely clear from the text...
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I thought the sign's contents made that clear. Clarified:
Noumero said:
  • Contingency: If Ami suddenly appears at the compound (sanity-check with Mari).
    • Put a sign indoors: "Any Ami Mori who gets through our defenses uninvited to show off (Mari judges) cedes us another favour (–_^)/~~".
    • Carefully introduce her to Kagome.
    • Discuss (Clan + Ami):
      • Akatsuki: They're an existential threat. Suggest collaborating with Ami on dealing with them, pooling information.
        • Is diplomacy possible? Perhaps we can influence their idea of "pursuing peace the hard way"...
      • Establishing communication with her in Mist.
      • Coordinating our Leaf plots.
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Honestly the Ami contingency is rather silly. She's not an idiot to attempt to infiltrate a compound composed of two sealmasters.
 
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