- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Why not? We keep apologizing to her after she throws a fit. At some point she's gotta face the music and actually deal with her issues instead of blaming other people/ her own low self esteem.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I could also respect leaving this to Keiko since it sort of is her business how to deal with that problem.
- Location
- Yes.
You are proposing that we allow a person with serious mental issues regarding initiative that are exacerbated by her bloodline to deal with her own issues on her own. Are you expecting her to magically snap her fingers and fix her issues off-screen, because as far as I can tell the method you're proposing is just gonna make the situation worse and likely lead to her completely melting down.
Which, for the record, is something I don't actually want to have happen.
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
No what I'm saying is that we need to stop enabling her shitty behavior. We can be a friend and let her know we have her back. But we aren't responsible for any of this and shouldn't act like we are. She needs to deal with this however she decides to deal with it. It's not a problem for Hazō
- Location
- Yes.
Her shitty behavior...of walking away from what is from her perspective another in a series of frustating events?
...Did I miss something, because if I were confronted by people doing things that would piss me off I would want to GTFO for a while. That's not shitty behavior.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
So just clarifying here: we're going to attempt to fix the issues brought about by a series of events making Keiko feel as if she has no "agency" or what have you, by taking independent action without checking with her about it first in a potentially similar fashion to what started off this whole mess?
Sign me up! Whats the battleplan?
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Yeah, I think that Keiko's grievance with Shikamaru isn't something we should get too involved with. Maybe express our displeasure as a protective sibling, but taking it upon ourselves to solve this for Keiko I think would only make things worse.
I feel like Keiko's capable of expressing her own grievances (as opposed to her self-loathing, which she needs outside intervention to mitigate) and given touchy she is about agency right now I think she would appreciate us letting her resolve her grievance on her own terms.
Now, we also know that she's in a bad mental state right now for other reasons, and we absolutely should try to break her out of that (like we did in the never-happened chapter, or maybe something else, idk), but I don't think we should be poking our nose into the Shikamaru situation much.
I feel like Keiko's capable of expressing her own grievances (as opposed to her self-loathing, which she needs outside intervention to mitigate) and given touchy she is about agency right now I think she would appreciate us letting her resolve her grievance on her own terms.
Now, we also know that she's in a bad mental state right now for other reasons, and we absolutely should try to break her out of that (like we did in the never-happened chapter, or maybe something else, idk), but I don't think we should be poking our nose into the Shikamaru situation much.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Worth it.
- Location
- Yes.
I am advocating not leaving Keiko to deal with her own issues, since my read on her mental state and/or expected actions...it wouldn't be pretty. Right now my thoughts on how to help her would involve sitting her down with Noburi and Jiraiya and having a long, long talk about her actions and agency issues, as well as shit she (and we, since we want to fuckin' help) can do to improve this.
Side note: I'm actually more than a little bit terrified that she's going to snap halfway through the finals match with Shino and do something horrible to prove to herself that she has agency. I really want to get her started on the road to recovery as her importance to the clan is...well, it's up there.
- Location
- Italy
Hi, i'm following the quest but i'm fairly sure i didn't post before.
Just giving my opinion, in the hope it will helpful.
Just, felt this post could help the discussion.
I understand the reasoning... But people simply don't work like that.
I'm fairly sure we did not.
We said we were sorry.
Such thing is as worthless as the words we used to say it.
Just words to the wind.
And apology is understading why someone is angry or said, what we did wrong and then feeling sorry.
We went for the last part without real understanding, using excuses like "well, it's clearly Keiko at fault, but we will still say that we are sorry"
There is a reason Noburi treated us like that, in this update.
Keiko has problems
We have problems
Our problems accidentaly created a huge damage to the relationship between us and Keiko that of course made her problems even bigger.
And i'm not overstimating this, and i feel the impact and gravity of the situation isn't understood or is simply ignored
We treated Keiko as an object.
We treated Keiko as a stranger.
We treated Keiko as an actor on the table and not as an ally.
Like, in her mind some things were fixed:
1)i am an useless human being 2)Me,Hazou,Noburi and Mari are a family
3)Hazou,Noburi and Me are a team and are allies that will always help and fight together in this shitty world
4)Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami...
We implicitly said that 1 is true, explicitly treated her as the opposite of 2 and refused 3 with our actions.
While using 4 as an hammer to push everything deeper in the most painful way.
This said, we ARE NOT her only problem, and we can't "fix" her.
We can just deal with our fuckup and help her with the rest.
The "Keiko needs to git gud" is not completely wrong, let's be clear.
TL;DR
We lied to her(treating her as a stranger and not family)
We left her out of the loop(treating her not as an ally, but someone outiside, at best like Jiraya)
We implicitly told her she's worthless.
Willing or not, we are one of the pillar of Keiko life, like she is for Hazou.
A pillar as family amd comrade....and we, accidentaly, spit on these two pillar in the most explosive way possible.
I'm surprised we didn't get a +1 boost to psycological warfare forever
In super TL;DR
We kicked some of the most important assumption in our relationship with Keiko in the dick.
And then shot them, just to be sure.
And then set them on fire.
Slowly.
Yes, assumption can be set on fire, if you were curious
Just giving my opinion, in the hope it will helpful.
Just, felt this post could help the discussion.
I understand the reasoning... But people simply don't work like that.
I'm fairly sure we did not.
We said we were sorry.
Such thing is as worthless as the words we used to say it.
Just words to the wind.
And apology is understading why someone is angry or said, what we did wrong and then feeling sorry.
We went for the last part without real understanding, using excuses like "well, it's clearly Keiko at fault, but we will still say that we are sorry"
There is a reason Noburi treated us like that, in this update.
Keiko has problems
We have problems
Our problems accidentaly created a huge damage to the relationship between us and Keiko that of course made her problems even bigger.
And i'm not overstimating this, and i feel the impact and gravity of the situation isn't understood or is simply ignored
We treated Keiko as an object.
We treated Keiko as a stranger.
We treated Keiko as an actor on the table and not as an ally.
Like, in her mind some things were fixed:
1)i am an useless human being 2)Me,Hazou,Noburi and Mari are a family
3)Hazou,Noburi and Me are a team and are allies that will always help and fight together in this shitty world
4)Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami,Ami...
We implicitly said that 1 is true, explicitly treated her as the opposite of 2 and refused 3 with our actions.
While using 4 as an hammer to push everything deeper in the most painful way.
This said, we ARE NOT her only problem, and we can't "fix" her.
We can just deal with our fuckup and help her with the rest.
The "Keiko needs to git gud" is not completely wrong, let's be clear.
TL;DR
We lied to her(treating her as a stranger and not family)
We left her out of the loop(treating her not as an ally, but someone outiside, at best like Jiraya)
We implicitly told her she's worthless.
Willing or not, we are one of the pillar of Keiko life, like she is for Hazou.
A pillar as family amd comrade....and we, accidentaly, spit on these two pillar in the most explosive way possible.
I'm surprised we didn't get a +1 boost to psycological warfare forever
In super TL;DR
We kicked some of the most important assumption in our relationship with Keiko in the dick.
And then shot them, just to be sure.
And then set them on fire.
Slowly.
Yes, assumption can be set on fire, if you were curious
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
*moves hands in a scale weighing motion*
I mean. It would be immensely satisfying.
Can we save this sort of thing for when Haru inevitably starts giving us shit at Akane's funeral, though? I'd like to publicly rearrange his internal organs (after the funeral, of course) while we have valid justification to.
*thumbsup*
I'm not necessarily sure that this is a fantastic idea, but then again I'm not a therapist. Arguments can be made that preventing Keiko from pulling a Hazou is priority one, but I'm not sure to what extent she would do that.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I know that one of our readers is a therapist, though he may or may not be up to date on this.
- Location
- Under a Rock
Remember, Shikaku will be upset with Shikamaru as well. He forced the clan's hand when he did this.
- Location
- The state of Paranoia
What if we give her a list of options for how she can fix her problems? Then she can optimize that list, add options if she wants/can, and pick the options she wants to do. Agency!
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I personally have a very strong reaction against the type of emotional manipulation Keiko attempted in response to our meeting with Ami. I have a visceral reaction against people trying to dictate who or how I can associate with. I would have immediately let Kei know that how she responded was not ok.
- Location
- Under a Rock
I agree, violence isn't a good idea here. But we don't have to handle Shikamaru with kid gloves. Offending him here won't give us problems with the Nara as a whole.
- Location
- Why would this be required?
"Don't have to worry about Zabuza"
"Implying we should ever not worry about Zabuza"
It's like you're trying to get Hazo killed you fool
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Get Rock Lee's permission first.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Don't have to worry about Zabuza being the thing that messed with eaglejarl's chapter, it goes without saying that we have to worry about him on more general principles.
Zabuza comes bearing good news would be a great idea.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Ahh, are we about to punch Shikamaru? Awesome.
By the way, we should send Keiko some kind of crazy letter, in place of the rant. Write about howMori Anna accepts her marriage proposal a grue ate the concept of henge we're planning to write an Icha Icha spin-off series that would make Jiraiya blush and it's up to her to stop (or advice) us.
By the way, we should send Keiko some kind of crazy letter, in place of the rant. Write about how
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