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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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2 further ideas for the shield jutsu thing. 1, I think we now have a really good card for Jiraiya to play with the Hyuuga. "Support me having the hat and I'll give you a way to be immune to physical damage on the battlefield"

Second, put the airwalker seals (or just the normal air dome seala) in a KAOS suit. Itd take some training to figure out, but with even with activating the seals with your hands it'll still be incredibly useful.

Edit: plus, telling Jiraiya this will give him another 'just turn it upside down' moment, which is great.

Edit 2: another thought. Do the air dome seals cut through things if stuff is in the way when they form? Or do they fail to form? If they cut through stuff.... oh man there are so many cool things we could do. Plus, good luck punching a hyuga, ever again. You'd go yo punch them, they'd activate the seals, then suddenly half your arm is now floating in the air between the two of you. Rip.
 
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Twinnstars said:
2 further ideas for the shield jutsu thing. 1, I think we now have a really good card for Jiraiya to play with the Hyuuga. "Support me having the hat and I'll give you a way to be immune to physical damage on the battlefield"

Second, put the airwalker seals (or just the normal air dome seala) in a KAOS suit. Itd take some training to figure out, but with even with activating the seals with your hands it'll still be incredibly useful.
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Stipulated by the pangolin to be a technique secret I am afraid.
 
Kiba said:
Stipulated by the pangolin to be a technique secret I am afraid.
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Nothing they said was about any Pangolin secrets IIRC.

Twinnstars said:
2 further ideas for the shield jutsu thing. 1, I think we now have a really good card for Jiraiya to play with the Hyuuga. "Support me having the hat and I'll give you a way to be immune to physical damage on the battlefield"

Second, put the airwalker seals (or just the normal air dome seala) in a KAOS suit. Itd take some training to figure out, but with even with activating the seals with your hands it'll still be incredibly useful.

Edit: plus, telling Jiraiya this will give him another 'just turn it upside down' moment, which is great.
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Is there a reason the Hyuuga don't already have such a thing?
 
Twinnstars said:
2 further ideas for the shield jutsu thing. 1, I think we now have a really good card for Jiraiya to play with the Hyuuga. "Support me having the hat and I'll give you a way to be immune to physical damage on the battlefield"

Second, put the airwalker seals (or just the normal air dome seala) in a KAOS suit. Itd take some training to figure out, but with even with activating the seals with your hands it'll still be incredibly useful.

Edit: plus, telling Jiraiya this will give him another 'just turn it upside down' moment, which is great.
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Maybe just turn it sideways? Put an airdome seal on both hands, stretch your arms out to each side, and activate them? It would give you cover from only one side, but it's faster than dodging an explosive by running for cover. Maybe it would add an aspect bonus or two to the Athletics roll?

For this to work, you'd need an airdome seal that activated and deactivated instantly or near instantly, and it would have to be much more forgiving in how far out of alignment the two seals can be while still activating.
 
firestorm440 said:
Same reason they don't have skywalkers one assumes?
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Except:
  • The Hyuuga take great pride in their bloodline and would definitely pay attention to ways to make best use of it. It would not be unlikely for a Hyuuga to hear about Air Domes and immediately think 'can our unique Hyuuga talents make better use of this?'
  • Part of what made Skywalkers so obscure an idea was that Air Dome was a defensive seal and it takes true outside the box thinking to consider using it as a mobility seal. This idea is still a defensive seal, so it's not very far outside the box and easier for people to think of.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Except:
  • The Hyuuga take great pride in their bloodline and would definitely pay attention to ways to make best use of it. It would not be unlikely for a Hyuuga to hear about Air Domes and immediately think 'can our unique Hyuuga talents make better use of this?'
  • Part of what made Skywalkers so obscure an idea was that Air Dome was a defensive seal and it takes true outside the box thinking to consider using it as a mobility seal. This idea is still a defensive seal, so it's not very far outside the box and easier for people to think of.
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So they define most of their identity around their bullshit eyes rather than what they can do in addition to being bullshit sensors?
 
More munchkining: Chakra blades. Chakra blades are really cool because you can move your chakra through them to make them more sharp/weigh less etc. Right? Could we use the chakra in the blade to activate a seal?

If that works, then we can make tower shields essentially. A long thin "chakra blade" that is basically just a rectangle that had several small notches/impressions near the ends to place seals. Put air dome seals there.
 
Twinnstars said:
More munchkining: Chakra blades. Chakra blades are really cool because you can move your chakra through them to make them more sharp/weigh less etc. Right? Could we use the chakra in the blade to activate a seal?

If that works, then we can make tower shields essentially. A long thin "chakra blade" that is basically just a rectangle that had several small notches/impressions near the ends to place seals. Put air dome seals there.
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We don't know anything about chakra metal at all. Haven't had the chance to experiment with it.
 
Yo, which vote results in Hazou bringing Ami a gift that doesn't look like something straight out of an kindergarten arts and craft class?
 
Man, it warms my heart that our plan is so solid that all the discussion is focused on the gift, which is a funny extra in the grand scheme of things.
 
Roomba said:
Man, it warms my heart that our plan is so solid that all the discussion is focused on the gift, which is a funny extra in the grand scheme of things.
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Hey now, unless you've privately checked the plan over with Velorien, in which case I wouldn't expect either of you to reveal such, you can't be sure that it's solid and that the rest of us haven't just resigned ourselves to this going terribly :p
 
Roomba said:
Man, it warms my heart that our plan is so solid that all the discussion is focused on the gift, which is a funny extra in the grand scheme of things.
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Want to play a little game?

Question goes to everyone else as well, lets try to predict what Ami could say and what Hazou would reply keeping the plan in mind. Maybe we will find some glaring issue like this.

1) AMI: Why did you want to meet with me? I am sure my sister didn't say anything nice about me.

2) AMI: What's the deal with Uplift? Why are you interested in it, why should I help you and what do you gain from it? And what's in it for me?

3) AMI: Why didn't you come back to Mist when you could? How did you even get Jiraiya to adopt you guys? Pangolin scroll is worth a lot but I heard a lot about you being a sealmaster during the Exams and seals can basically do anything. Did you invent <makes up random stuff to see how Hazou reacts>?

4) AMI: Does it bother you that Ren screwed your mother not only of clan heir status - because lets be frank, just marrying outside of the clan could not have caused such a big rift, something else must have happened like someone pulling the strings from behind - but even a shot at being Mizukage? You ever ask your mother why exactly she got exiled? The real story, I mean.

5) AMI: OK, I will help you but you have to agree to it now or the deal is off. If you can't do that much, how am I to trust that you are worth my time instead of just negotiating with whomever sent you directly?

Might throw in my answers later as well.
 
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Tua said:
Want to play a little game?

Question goes to everyone else as well, lets try to predict what Ami could say and what Hazou would reply keeping the plan in mind. Maybe we will find some glaring issue like this.

1) AMI: Why did you want to meet with me? I am sure my sister didn't say anything nice about me.

2) AMI: What's the deal with Uplift? Why are you interested in it, why should I help you and what do you gain from it? And what's in it for me?

3) AMI: Why didn't you come back to Mist when you could? How did you even get Jiraiya to adopt you guys? Pangolin scroll is worth a lot but I heard a lot about you being a sealmaster during the Exams and seals can basically do anything. Did you invent <makes up random stuff to see how Hazou reacts>?

4) AMI: Does it bother you that Ren screwed your mother not only of clan heir status - because lets be frank, just marrying outside of the clan could not have caused such a big rift, something else must have happened like someone pulling the strings from behind - but even a shot at being Mizukage? You ever ask your mother why exactly she got exiled? The real story, I mean.

5) AMI: OK, I will help you but you have to agree to it now or the deal is off. If you can't do that much, how am I to trust that you are worth my time instead of just negotiating with whomever sent you directly?

Might throw in my answers later as well.
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If only we had more than two and a half hours to answer these questions. Oh well.
 
[X] Action Plan: Chilling with Ami
Word Count: 380

Goal: Impress Ami enough that she agrees to communicate with you again
  • Sub-Goal A: Ami might test you by poking at you with Psych and soc tests. Prepare as best you can.
  • Sub-Goal B: Use the meeting to build a better mental model of Mori Ami and her faction.
  • Sub-Goal C: Figure out what her impression of you might be.
Formalities:
  • Wear casual-neutral clothing.
  • Stay away from OPSEC sensitive topics or Mist/Leaf politics.
  • Don't proactively bring up topics of uncertain confidentiality (Breeding programs, Jiraiya's internal politics, etc)
  • Ami guaranteed you an hour away from the Mori. Check with Noburi and Jaraiya to make sure no one screws the meeting's privacy over on your end.
  • Arrive early, just in case of unfortunate events.
  • No on-the-spot commitments.
  • Don't discuss Keiko or Mari behind their backs.
Conversation Prep:
  • If available, adapt or make a template from any notes or lists from Keiko's scripted negotiation with the Pangolin's boss or lessons from Shikaku or Keiko. They are an example of how to speak with titans in mind and body.
    • Tailor conversation scripts or tracks according to Ami's possible personality types or actions.
  • Get help from Noburi on ice-breakers and emotional prep.
  • Know the consequences of your Uplift speech like the back of your hand
  • Jiraiya gets final say over everything.
Brace for mental and social poking by...
  • Jounin level verbal traps, bodylanguage, gaze...
  • Use of your mist profile, as well as your parents.
  • Scrutinizing your performance and interactions during the Exam.
  • Know the possible implications and interpretations of your uplift speech and its specific phrases.
    • Our unfortunate family origins, influences, leaf radicalism, or emotional weaknesses might be speculated
    • Dig deeper than the above and get Nobby or Jiraiya's help.
  • Keiko, Mari, and Noburi's file.
  • Seduction attempts.
  • Home advantage
Contingencies:
  • If put off-balance: keep your cool, mentally distance yourself. Use Iron-nerve when or if needed.
    • End meeting ASAP if Ami...
      • ... persistently pursues a crucial OPSEC topic.
      • ... invites a third party over.
  • If it went well:
    • Establish a secure way to get back in contact.

Note:
Just Throwing my hat in.
 
Cariyaga said:
If only we had more than two and a half hours to answer these questions. Oh well.
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You could always try your hand at it. :p

Tua said:
1) AMI: Why did you want to meet with me? I am sure my sister didn't say anything nice about me.

2) AMI: What's the deal with Uplift? Why are you interested in it, why should I help you and what do you gain from it? And what's in it for me?

3) AMI: Why didn't you come back to Mist when you could? How did you even get Jiraiya to adopt you guys? Pangolin scroll is worth a lot but I heard a lot about you being a sealmaster during the Exams and seals can basically do anything. Did you invent <makes up random stuff to see how Hazou reacts>?

4) AMI: Does it bother you that Ren screwed your mother not only of clan heir status - because lets be frank, just marrying outside of the clan could not have caused such a big rift, something else must have happened like someone pulling the strings from behind - but even a shot at being Mizukage? You ever ask your mother why exactly she got exiled? The real story, I mean.

5) AMI: OK, I will help you but you have to agree to it now or the deal is off. If you can't do that much, how am I to trust that you are worth my time instead of just negotiating with whomever sent you directly?
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1) HAZOU: I heard about you from Jiraiya (and your sister) among others who call you a prodigy so I got curious about you and I took the gamble that your interests and mine could overlap. Keiko doesn't talk much about you ever since we got to Mist the first time but she is not the topic of discussion and I would rather not talk about her since she doesn't know I am here.
What matters is that I am here and I am grateful you agreed to meet me.

2) HAZOU: When we went missing-nin (through no fault of our own) I saw the world outside of the Villages for the first time. I saw them, not in the abstract but actually saw how they lived. Granted, it was not a super in-depth look at it because we could not afford to be outed as missing-nin so we had to keep our distance most of the time, but it was enough. I also saw how simple ninja techniques could help them in a disproportiately lower amount of time. Or offer things they couldn't do at all even with all the time in the world like access to proper medics.
I also saw how the people in Leaf were treated and that gave me more to think about.

As to what's in for me? The same thing that is in for you: we get to help people, compensate for the lives ninjas tend to take (i.e. putting some black numbers into moral balance book). It also feels good to do good. But most importantly, we help people outside of the Village system which only cares about its own*; we help all of them and by doing that we prevent humanity from dying (<insert how he has decent intel about how the population of Mist is shrinking due to chakra beast attacks and at some point there will not be enough ninja to sustain the cycle, the weakest Village will fall and the rest of them will fall like dominoes once it's their turn>).

*Possible AMI inject: That is some radical and dangerous thinking. The people in power might not agree. How does Jiraiya think about this or does he not know?
Reply: ??? Should probably be fine, though? (Our pre-match speech wasn't exactly subtle.)

3) HAZOU: We could not risk it since we didn't know whether we would be executed on the spot or not. People might think of us as crazy goody two shoes (especially after my speech) but we aren't naive or suicidal.
I am afraid I cannot answer your other questions for obvious OPSEC reasons.

4) It doesn't bother me, things worked out fine in the end. Do I wonder what would have happened if things were different? I'd be lying if I said I didn't. But I do not regret the experiences I made. I most definitely do not regret the friends I found. Friends who I am now glad to call family.
Assuming you are correct and there was something else going on, my mother can tell me when she is ready. I trust her, and either way, it doesn't bother me.

5) I'm sorry to hear that. I understand this was a long shot from the get-go but I am afraid I cannot commit to anything on the spot. This is not negotiable, sorry. We could set up a way to contact each other if you change your mind though.

tl;dr

Couldn't really find any obvious flaws besides a potential one in red. Can someone chime in here?

(Obviously I did not try and predict the tone of things, just the rough content.)
 
Tua said:
Want to play a little game?

Question goes to everyone else as well, lets try to predict what Ami could say and what Hazou would reply keeping the plan in mind. Maybe we will find some glaring issue like this.
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Sure. I will note that I doubt Ami would ask these questions quite so forcefully, given what we've seen of her thus far. The tone you've gone for is very blunt and borderline adversarial.

Tua said:
1) AMI: Why did you want to meet with me? I am sure my sister didn't say anything nice about me.
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HAZOU: To the contrary, Keiko sings your praises every opportunity she gets. A major part of the reason I wanted to meet was to get to know the fabled Mori prodigy, talk about some things I consider important. And, well, Jiraiya agreed because he thought you'd be less guarded around me and let something slip. He can be so strangely optimistic at times.

Tua said:
2) AMI: What's the deal with Uplift? Why are you interested in it, why should I help you and what do you gain from it? And what's in it for me?
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Whatever Hazou answers here using an invocation of his Creative Idealist Apect is fine. I will note that this would have to follow Hazou actually asking for her help, which is much further than I expect the Uplift discussion to go.

Tua said:
3) AMI: Why didn't you come back to Mist when you could? How did you even get Jiraiya to adopt you guys? Pangolin scroll is worth a lot but I heard a lot about you being a sealmaster during the Exams and seals can basically do anything. Did you invent <makes up random stuff to see how Hazou reacts>?
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HAZOU: <smiling apologetically> I'm sorry, but I promised Jiraiya not to talk about that at all. I'm bad at OPSEC as is, and if I let anything important slip here, they'll never let me out of the clan headquarters once we're back in Leaf.

Tua said:
4) AMI: Does it bother you that Ren screwed your mother not only of clan heir status - because lets be frank, just marrying outside of the clan could not have caused such a big rift, something else must have happened like someone pulling the strings from behind - but even a shot at being Mizukage? You ever ask your mother why exactly she got exiled? The real story, I mean.
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HAZOU: I'm not interested in discussing that topic, and I hardly see how it's any of your business.

<Seriously, not only is this question incredibly rude and prying, but Kurosawa internal politics definitely fall under the OPSEC clause, even if Hazou might not actually know anything. I can also see the following answer, if Hazou wants to be very polite:>

HAZOU: I'm sorry, but I don't know anything about that. I've never thought to ask, and you can probably imagine that the Kurosawa clan wasn't exactly a prime conversational topic in our household.

Tua said:
5) AMI: OK, I will help you but you have to agree to it now or the deal is off. If you can't do that much, how am I to trust that you are worth my time instead of just negotiating with whomever sent you directly?
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HAZOU: Deal is off, then.

<I can imagine several followups to this depending on context, but I can't imagine Hazou actually agreeing, given that we explicitly forbid it.>
 
Minor changes, literally last-minute:
  • Added "assume she is scarily well-informed" to "Collectedness" section.
  • Reworded a contingency to avoid a potential minor OPSEC incident where we told Jiraiya about our suspicions WRT Ami/Keiko falling-out.
Noumero said:
[x] Ami Plan: One Assuredly Containing No Disastrous Oversights
Wordcount: 499.
  • Take time to prepare. Consider drawing a concept map (covertly; destroy it afterwards).
  • Thoughts:
    • Keiko trusted Ami unquestioningly. Mari stated Ami wouldn't reject her. Yet, Ami did that the moment they meet, and as the result Keiko lost her only connection to the Mori.
      • Optimistic speculation: Ami did that to protect Keiko from clan elders.
      • Don't share this thought with anyone.
    • Talking with Ami after your speech could be seen as probing for support.
    • Note: Ami wouldn't know your goals at first.
  • Sanity-check everything below with Jiraiya.
  • Goals:
    • Build initial rapport.
    • Actually discuss listed topics.
  • Formalities:
    • Clothes: casual; colours: politically neutral.
    • Gift: a "^_^"-stamp seal (commission from a woodworker (compensate for rush)).
    • Demeanour: diplomatic but friendly, slightly joking where appropriate.
  • Guidelines:
    • Precommitments (overriding priority):
      • Avoid on-the-spot commitments, however small.
      • Under no circumstances talk about OPSEC-sensitive topics. Ami may make it sound like a good idea, but past!you knows better.
      • Don't proactively bring up topics of uncertain confidentiality (breeding programs, scorch squads, Jiraiya's internal politics...).
    • Frankness:
      • You won't be able to deceive her, so don't play games. Unless this plan states otherwise, be honest about your plans and goals for this meeting — even if it's embarrassing.
      • Don't be rude, though.
    • Collectedness:
      • Converse at a deliberate pace. Don't get caught up, don't knee-jerk.
      • Actively work to retain mental balance.
        • Remember meeting Shikaku, and Gisuji.
        • Assume she is scarily well-informed.
      • Be mindful of words and gestures. Observe, memorize.
  • Topics:
    • Icebreakers:
      • Suggest dining on the ceiling/wall (check viability beforehand).
      • Trade unconventional personal questions. E. g., "what are you proud of, but never have an excuse to discuss?".
      • At some point, explain CCnJ.
    • "Social philosophy". (Avoid the particulars of political situation; stay abstract.)
      • Uplift: You've stated your position publicly. What are Ami's thoughts?
      • Existential threats:
        • Global wars are devastating. Is lasting peace possible?
          • As Chuunin Exams show, diplomacy could be effective.
        • Civilization may be gradually declining even in "peacetime", due to chakra-beasts destroying civilian villages. Can we reverse the trend? Improve on the status quo?
    • "Family".
      • To make a lasting impact, one needs to be efficient — which sometimes means ruthlessly sacrificing personal attachments and innocents for power, detachedly thinking of your loved ones as resources, or making decisions for them that would go against their wishes.
        • Is there a balance to be struck, between efficiency and humanity?
      • Don't bring Keiko up. If Ami does, suggest postponing the topic.
        • Keiko is unaware of this meeting, so you're uncomfortable discussing her.
  • Contingencies:
    • If put off-balance: keep your cool, mentally distance yourself.
      • Be prepared for deliberate attempts to rile you up (example: by subtly insulting Keiko, or referring to Hana's exile, in order to sell a deception). Don't let anger control you.
    • End meeting ASAP if Ami...
      • ... persistently pursues a crucial OPSEC topic.
      • ... invites a third party over.
  • If it went well:
    • Establish a scheme to confirm integrity of letters for inter-village correspondence (Example: "nth letter of every sentence follows a pattern").
    • Hand her a post-interaction survey. Collect it next time.
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Velorien on Jan 30, 2019 at 7:10 AM, finished with 238 posts and 16 votes.
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Roomba said:
Sure. I will note that I doubt Ami would ask these questions quite so forcefully, given what we've seen of her thus far. The tone you've gone for is very blunt and borderline adversarial.
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It's mostly that way because it made it easier to write the questions and I was more interested in getting to the content of it without spending an hour or two trying to imagine how Ami talks. :p

But it looks like it'll go well.

Perfectly even.

Also, before I forget:

Tua said:
This post right here, officer.
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Velorien said:
Done. You're free to go, and let me catch you doing it again.
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Velorien said:
In the meantime, this made me laugh out loud on public transport, which deserves bonus XP when I get home.
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It happened again, officer.

It was a different perpetrator this time but he might be in cahoots with the other guy. He might even be the mastermind, had a really evil face like he enjoys making people suffer.
 
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