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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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HyperCatnip said:
[x] Training Hazou: Exploding Walls

...because I really don't want us to waste XP on Taijutsu.
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I don't think we should be going with that training plan, given that we can't level sealing. If ChronOblivion would like to revise that, I'd be willing to vote for that one, though. I'm quite eager to see what MEW can do at higher levels.
 
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Cariyaga said:
I don't think we should be going with that training plan, given that we can't level sealing. If ChronOblivion would like to revise that, I'd be willing to vote for that one, though.
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Eaglejarl said that if we do have enough time in the update, we can train it. If we can't, then that training doesn't happen, and we can do it next time.
 
ChronOblivion said:
Eaglejarl said that if we do have enough time in the update, we can train it. If we can't, then that training doesn't happen, and we can do it next time.
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Hmm. Well, as long as we don't level Intelligence until we level sealing that'd be fine, I suppose.

[-] Training Hazou: Deceptive Punching
[X] Training Hazou: Exploding Walls
 
Radvic said:
I'm not suggesting we build more explosive seals because it's dangerous to do so without our infusion bunker and we aren't as good at sealing as Kagome is. Given that there's likely under 100 ninja we could possibly fight here, I suspect that 25 explosive seals should be enough for us to get out of any tight spaces we find ourselves in. God knows Kagome's got enough to do the heavy lifting. The purpose of the explosive seals we carry around is to let us get to our mini-fort, where we've got more defenses. If we go full village assault, we'll need more seals, but we should also have some prep time before then. Not to mention I suspect they willl hesitate once the first explosive seal goes off. Ain't nobody want to fight the beasts who took out their assault squad and now are tossing around explosives.
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How about we write some extra explosive seals up, but do not infuse them? That has no risk, and while it reduces their immediate usefulness, it gives us the option to infuse seals mid-combat if things go drastically wrong.

[x] Training Hazou: Nope
With Sealing 11 our chance of explosive seal-crafting success raises to 99.96%, which raises the number of explosive seals we can safely make by a factor of 5.
With Sealing 12 we get 99.99% rate of success, which basically removes the safety limit on the amount of explosive seals we can create.

When we get the chance, we should try to learn learn a new Iron Nerve move, we have not been using our ability to the fullest. @eaglejarl @Velorien @Jackercracks @AugSphere Is this an ok use of Iron Nerve? How much training time would it take?

[x] Iron Nerve: Explosive Square
A regular ninja can dodge kunai with little issue, but the problem becomes a little more difficult when the kunai explode. By attaching explosive tags to 4 kunai, and training in throwing two in each hand simultaneously with Iron Nerve, Hazou is able to perfectly bracket an enemy in quadruple explosions, increasing the difficultly of evasion.

Add (Weapons/3)+2 dice to ranged attacks against primary target when using this method.
Add (Weapons/3)+1 dice to ranged attacks against secondary targets when using this method.

As this technique is based off of Iron Nerve, it uses the base level of Weapons and not the effective level, as the user is not able to benefit from the normal improvements to their movements.

Weaknesses: Must be learned for each range, must be facing enemy directly (unless we train it separately otherwise), obvious windup after the first time, takes time to position kunai in hands just right, using at close range is suicide.
 
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So... Does anyone want to explain why Keiko's crush admission has been apparently forgotten? I suppose I could have been misreading Hazō's sarcasm, but it seemed to happen more than once.
Velorien said:
Guess which part of this update took the longest to prepare.

In the process, I discovered, with the aid of multiple Japanese name dictionaries and Google, that "Wakahisa" is a place name very rarely used as a surname, and that neither "Hazō" nor "Noburi" are real names (or if they are, they're so obscure they don't count).

I also learned that "Kagome" is a woman's given name rather than a surname, but let's not tell him that.
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I knew that last one, and Hazō took some time before it stopped sounding awkward. But I'm honestly surprised at Noburi.
And the characters are very well executed, which is the important part.
 
ChronOblivion said:
I have no idea and it drives me bonkers.
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Obvious interpretation is memory editing. The obvious solution?
[X] Plan Reminiscence
Prepare to confront Inoue-sensei about memory gaps.
-Make redundant memory backups. The villagers are a better storage method than most, which may be why Hazō took so long to try it. Or succeed.
-Ask Kagome-sensei about methods for defending against memory wipes. Surely this won't backfire in terrible but amusing ways at all.

I'm open to more suggestions to improve this, but the backups should have been done long ago. Even if Truth Lost in the Fog is the only memory editing technique in existence (which seems rather unlikely), it's still scary in the hands of an enemy munchkin. Or possibly in our own hands, if we can figure out a way to exploit having a conversation we promptly forget.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Obvious interpretation is memory editing. The obvious solution?
[X] Plan Reminiscence
Prepare to confront Inoue-sensei about memory gaps.
-Make redundant memory backups. The villagers are a better storage method than most, which may be why Hazō took so long to try it. Or succeed.
-Ask Kagome-sensei about methods for defending against memory wipes. Surely this won't backfire in terrible but amusing ways at all.

I'm open to more suggestions to improve this, but the backups should have been done long ago. Even if Truth Lost in the Fog is the only memory editing technique in existence (which seems rather unlikely), it's still scary in the hands of an enemy munchkin. Or possibly in our own hands, if we can figure out a way to exploit having a conversation we promptly forget.
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Lying to an enemy with higher deception than us springs to mind.

Why not?
[X] Plan Reminiscence
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
Obvious interpretation is memory editing. The obvious solution?
[X] Plan Reminiscence
Prepare to confront Inoue-sensei about memory gaps.
-Make redundant memory backups. The villagers are a better storage method than most, which may be why Hazō took so long to try it. Or succeed.
-Ask Kagome-sensei about methods for defending against memory wipes. Surely this won't backfire in terrible but amusing ways at all.

I'm open to more suggestions to improve this, but the backups should have been done long ago. Even if Truth Lost in the Fog is the only memory editing technique in existence (which seems rather unlikely), it's still scary in the hands of an enemy munchkin. Or possibly in our own hands, if we can figure out a way to exploit having a conversation we promptly forget.
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Even if we the players are aware of Inoue's memory editing, Hazou isn't and it's foul play to have him act on OOC knowledge. We know of Inoue's little speech on the beach getting wiped from our minds, but nothing besides that. We could precommit to subtly twitching our fingers in a numbered index, storying little one-word snippets of everything Inoue says, but it would be very difficult.
 
We could come up with a movement that we have decided never to do unless we think we are about to have our memory changed. Then every day check for that movement.
 
I don't like the idea of taking the time off to train ninjutsu in the current situation. If Village Get wins (as it will), Hazou's efforts should go to training villagers, not himself. Deception on the other hand can be trained while simultaneously interacting with the villagers. I also think that good social skills and reading people is more useful considering the goals of Village Get than walls but maybe that's just me.

But if you really want to level MEW, why are we leaving it at 8? For the moment we can't get Sealing and that was confirmed by QM so we can forget about it for the current plan.

If you want to save XP for Sealing, consider that we got 25 XP from the last update. Getting Sealing 11 requires 33 XP, meaning we will probably have enough XP for it in 2 updates even if we spend all our XP now. (Or we could just finish our PMYF research at that point...)

Here are 2 better ways to train MEW if you are so inclined:

First one caps MEW without touching the attributes. Rest of the XP goes to Capacity so we can actually use the walls in combat (works against people less competent than us, ie. the villagers.) Saves 19 XP, meaning there's a good chance we have enough XP for Sealing 11 after the next update, if you care about that.

[] Training Hazou: 9 Walls For The Dwarven Kings

MEW 5 [5]
MEW 6 [11]
MEW 7 [18]
MEW 8 [26]
MEW 9 [35]

Capacity 6 [47]

Save 19 XP


The next plan gets us MEW 10, which gives us the option to get Earth Clones 9 for cheap in the future. It requires Strength 4 which is only used in Taijutsu, but that's the price if we want higher level walls. It is also XP efficient, meaning we don't uselessly bank XP when we don't have to.

[] Training Hazou: The Wall Number 10

MEW 5 [5]
MEW 6 [11]
MEW 7 [18]
MEW 8 [26]
MEW 9 [35]

Strength 4 [43]
MEW 10 [53]

Capacity 6 [65]

Save 1 XP (Yay!)


I still think training Deception is the better option, but if we are doing this MEW thing we should do it properly. If you can't really decide which one of these is better I suggest you go with the latter. There's a good chance that MEW 10 also unlocks the option to raise the walls without handseals in a pinch.

EDIT: This is the Deception training plan yours truly endorses, in case someone was wondering.
Twofold said:
[X] Training Hazou: Deception Deluxe

Manip 5 [10]
Deception 9 [19]

Presence 4 [27]
Composure 4 [35]
Deception 10 [45]

Roki 5 [50]
Awareness 10 [60]

Save 6 XP
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Sigil said:
How about we write some extra explosive seals up, but do not infuse them? That has no risk, and while it reduces their immediate usefulness, it gives us the option to infuse seals mid-combat if things go drastically wrong.
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Sold and edited.

On training plans in general: I'm hoping to save XP for pretty much everyone aside from Akane. We're best served by Hazou gaining levels in Sealing, Noburi gaining levels in medical knowledge and ninjutsu, and Keiko getting levels in summon-things. I think we have adequate skills to do what we're trying to do here (or, at least, the marginal gains we can get from the slightly higher levels are not great), so would prefer to save our XP for when we can spend it on what we truly care about rather than spending it all now and being sad when we're unable to, say, get Medical knowledge or Medical ninjutsu when we're next in Iron.
 
Jello_Raptor said:
I've read it as a combination of Keiko not being explicit about who she had a crush on and it being easier to play for laughs if they've all forgotten.
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I'd normally avoid explaining such things OOC, but basically this, reinforced by a certain amount of "does not compute" from twelve-year-old boys in regard to their first encounter with homosexuality.
 
@Twofold, so in the future there may be One Wall To Rule Them All And In The Darkness Bind Them? :rofl:

You convinced me that training Deception is more useful than (probably impossible to do now) Sealing training. I hope we get enough XP to level Sealing next time we visit our base, though.

[-] Training Hazou: Exploding Walls
[X] Training Hazou: Deception Deluxe
 
Jello_Raptor said:
We need to make a flash-bang seal so that we can have "One Wall To Rule Them All And In The Darkness Blind Them"
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Apparently we can turn MEW into a seal design if we research it. Then we just need to combine it with a flashbang and we'll have The One Wall Seal that produces an actual wall that blinds you.

That almost sounds like a practical idea. People will inevitably be tricked to look at a big wall raising from the ground and the flash effect will be far more effective if they look at it straight. Plus you'll have a nice big wall.

Not sure if it's worth the research time. Then again, a flashbang and a standard wall seal sound like good research projects and The One Wall would only be a combination of those two.
 
Given we can't label sealing, I like Deception as a second option. I still kind of think he could use higher diplomacy -- it'd only be 11 XP to raise that to level 6 which would make me feel a lot safer with him, socially speaking.

[-] Training Hazou: Exploding Walls
[X] Training Hazou: Deception Deluxe
 
So quick question: If we're willing to risk Hazou training MEW without any teacher assistance why can't we do the same with Akane and Hotaru no Jutsu? Are the first few levels really that dangerous?
 
faflec said:
So quick question: If we're willing to risk Hazou training MEW without any teacher assistance why can't we do the same with Akane and Hotaru no Jutsu? Are the first few levels really that dangerous?
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It's learning from a scroll without any instruction at all that's dangerous, not improving it, from what I understand.
 
Cariyaga said:
It's learning from a scroll without any instruction at all that's dangerous, not improving it, from what I understand.
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It is. We've been warned that it's common knowledge that learning from a scroll is dangerous, but the ruling on improving a jutsu skill through self-study is that it can be done from level 1.

My understanding of the fluff is that the first thing you learn for a jutsu is how to do it without hurting yourself, and the only safe way to learn that is from someone who already knows. (Or, presumably, have the technique hacking skill.)

From there, getting better is just a matter of practicing the hand seals, maybe some meditating on what using your chakra for the jutsu feels like, and of course some practice actually using it. And those are things you can do on your own.
 
Hm....

Do we have any more elemental paper (for testing affinities)?

I wonder if we can offer the scroll to other Fire-affinity people to learn from (after copying everything ourselves, ofc).
 
Twofold said:
I don't like the idea of taking the time off to train ninjutsu in the current situation. If Village Get wins (as it will), Hazou's efforts should go to training villagers, not himself. Deception on the other hand can be trained while simultaneously interacting with the villagers. I also think that good social skills and reading people is more useful considering the goals of Village Get than walls but maybe that's just me.

But if you really want to level MEW, why are we leaving it at 8? For the moment we can't get Sealing and that was confirmed by QM so we can forget about it for the current plan.

If you want to save XP for Sealing, consider that we got 25 XP from the last update. Getting Sealing 11 requires 33 XP, meaning we will probably have enough XP for it in 2 updates even if we spend all our XP now. (Or we could just finish our PMYF research at that point...)

Here are 2 better ways to train MEW if you are so inclined:

First one caps MEW without touching the attributes. Rest of the XP goes to Capacity so we can actually use the walls in combat (works against people less competent than us, ie. the villagers.) Saves 19 XP, meaning there's a good chance we have enough XP for Sealing 11 after the next update, if you care about that.

[] Training Hazou: 9 Walls For The Dwarven Kings

MEW 5 [5]
MEW 6 [11]
MEW 7 [18]
MEW 8 [26]
MEW 9 [35]

Capacity 6 [47]

Save 19 XP


The next plan gets us MEW 10, which gives us the option to get Earth Clones 9 for cheap in the future. It requires Strength 4 which is only used in Taijutsu, but that's the price if we want higher level walls. It is also XP efficient, meaning we don't uselessly bank XP when we don't have to.

[] Training Hazou: The Wall Number 10

MEW 5 [5]
MEW 6 [11]
MEW 7 [18]
MEW 8 [26]
MEW 9 [35]

Strength 4 [43]
MEW 10 [53]

Capacity 6 [65]

Save 1 XP (Yay!)


I still think training Deception is the better option, but if we are doing this MEW thing we should do it properly. If you can't really decide which one of these is better I suggest you go with the latter. There's a good chance that MEW 10 also unlocks the option to raise the walls without handseals in a pinch.

EDIT: This is the Deception training plan yours truly endorses, in case someone was wondering.
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The reason to stop at 8 is that it gives us sealless MEW. So, we get MEW to the point where the marginal use of another point drops, then save the rest to go towards Sealing, since we can't get it now.

And, of course, the utility of sealless MEW has gone up with the new mass combat rules.

I do agree (and put it in my plan) that when we get MEW to 8, we need more capacity. We'll have sealless MEW and Substitution, and we'll also want to use chakra to boost our combat skills, and 50 starts looking like a shallow well to draw from.
 
Sleeps Furiously said:
The reason to stop at 8 is that it gives us sealless MEW.
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Do you have a quote for that? Because I can't remember if no-handseals level was ever explicitly stated for MEW, I've been assuming it's 10. Level 8 doesn't universally mean no-handseals for every jutsu. (For Substitution and Zephyr it was 8 but Transformation for example requires 10...if I remember correctly.)

Anyway, I don't consider no-handseals to be that important for Earth Wall. Not using handseals will probably mean slower wall formation or higher chakra costs and those are really crucial if we want to use it in combat. It would be a nice bonus but I'm more interested in getting stronger walls that can deflect dangerous AoE jutsu (the ones that are dangerous for us are probably rolled above 10 dice) and can't be punched through that easily. If we want to put XP on Earth Wall we should get it to a competitive level fast.

Of course that's just me assuming that if we defend with Earth Wall against enemy jutsu we roll MEW level vs. Enemy Jutsu level (or MEW level vs. Enemy TacMov level for trapping purposes) and see who comes on top. No idea if it actually works like that.
 
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