Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I dunno. What could the stopgap be? Jiraiya not liking it? Keiko thinking this is an infringement of her agency?
KEIKO: Excuse me, I am the Pangolin Summoner.
HAZOU: And your summons are murdering everything on the Seventh Path with the help of my invention!
KEIKO: Excuse me, I am the Pangolin Summoner.
HAZOU: And your summons are murdering everything on the Seventh Path with the help of my invention!
- Location
- UK
I predict there to be resistance and likely some dismissiveness. I expect Keiko to have a mixed reaction, at least partially negative. I do not predict there to be fallout.
Unless we're talking about the girl advice section. Yeah, that's going to go horribly wrong.
Unless we're talking about the girl advice section. Yeah, that's going to go horribly wrong.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Right, but that was exactly the intent here.
Hazous social ineptitude, under certain conditions, is a shoddy rifle that backfires and shoots the bullet back through the users shoulder.
We're ijust invoking the same conditions and pointing the gun at ourselves instead of the problem to get what we actually want
- Location
- UK
Right, but that was exactly the intent here.
Hazous social ineptitude, under certain conditions, is a shoddy rifle that backfires and shoots the bullet back through the users shoulder.
We're ijust invoking the same conditions and pointing the gun at ourselves instead of the problem to get what we actually want
Murphystadter's law: It always goes wronger than you expect, even when you take into account Murphystadter's law.
Hazō: I'm so glad we made up.
Noburi: Oh, I thought you'd broken up.
Hazō: No we made up. It's all good now.
Jiraiya: Great. So what did you want to talk about?
Hazō: Just how great Akane is and how I don't want to mess things up again.
Mari: I thought you did pretty well.
Hazō: Thanks Mari, you're the best.
[foot in mouth]
Hazō: Second best.
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Hazō: Who's Murphy?
Bonus Update: Asking for a Friend
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Bonus Update: Asking for a Friend
The previous evening…
"You know, Akane," Keiko said, "a more sceptical person than myself might, upon being plied with my favourite cake and then lured to the most secluded gazebo in Hashirama Memorial Park after dark, begin to suspect an ulterior motive."
Expensive cake at that. Akane could see how the Hokage's adopted daughter might not notice, but given that Akane's personal funds currently amounted to a modest Chūnin Exam stipend minus the money she'd had to spend in Mist, right now, luxuries had to be just that. But she'd made a promise. Besides, it was money spent on helping a friend (two friends, in fact), which was about the best use money could have.
"I need your help," Akane said without preamble. She wasn't sure what kind of ulterior motives Keiko was imagining, and she didn't want to take an indirect approach in case she found out.
"I assumed as much," Keiko said. "However, if you require some manner of intercession with Hazō, then I must refuse. For a person of my romantic aptitude to interfere in another's love life could lead only to unbounded devastation such as would cause Kagome himself to flinch away in horror."
"No," Akane said. "This isn't about Hazō." It was far too late for that. There was a reason she'd invited Keiko out instead of coming to see her at the compound, even though it was less practical for what she wanted.
"I was hoping that I could borrow a certain kind of novel from you. For a friend."
Keiko shot up. "I do not read or possess any such items, and I am insulted at the implication. If you have called me here solely to impugn my—"
"Keiko," Akane said quickly. "I'm not impugning anything. I just thought that, given you live in the same home as Jiraiya of the Three, you might have easy access to some of his works." Not really a lie. More of a half-truth. A three-quarters truth, even. Practically fact.
The blazing fury in Keiko's eyes simmered down. "Oh. Right. I see. Yes, as you have correctly inferred, Jiraiya is the kind of man to surround himself with reminders of his own talent. Which particular volumes are you interested in?"
"I was hoping you could recommend something, actually," Akane said. "For my friend. It isn't something I can figure out on my own." Akane wasn't fond of manipulating her friends, even for a worthy cause, but Keiko's sensitivity on the subject ruled out a direct approach, and the fact that Keiko considered herself more intelligent than Akane made this easier than it should have been.
"You understand that I have never read any of these works myself," Keiko said. "Anything I could tell you would be pure speculation based on aggregated second-hand knowledge." There was a touch of animation in her voice that, based on past experience, typically preceded Keiko waxing lyrical on the virtues of Mari-sensei—obviously not so frequent now—or mercilessly crushing someone's spirit. Now Akane thought about it, it was worrying that those were Keiko's two biggest expressions of enthusiasm.
Akane nodded.
Keiko sat down again. Her fingers drummed a brief, thoughtful pattern on the table. "In that case… I am given to understand that you should not concern yourself with Jiraiya's early experimental period. It is stylistically clumsy and the real-life inspirations are sometimes excessively transparent, although it does possess a certain naïve sincerity that is missing from his later works. You would do better to explore his Konaya and Tamamono years, when his growing popularity led him to sign on with a professional publisher and benefit from their ruthless editors, but before he became such a household name that he chose to return to self-publishing. His later novels can be self-indulgent, and some are by-the-numbers work plainly weakened by the spy network's demands on his time. In the worst cases, this occurs partway through, and quality takes a sharp dip just as one has become emotionally invested.
"Upon further consideration, while individual items from Jiraiya's extensive bibliography are justly considered classics whose popularity has led the genre to such prominence—notably Sealing: A Tsundere Story, Love Scroll, and of course the seminal Snake Oil: The Untold Story of the Leaf Three—you may benefit more from shifting your focus to the broader Konaya and Tamamono range."
"So what would you recommend?"
"That depends," Keiko said, her speech growing slightly faster. "What kind of story is 'your friend' interested in? Romantic comedy can be surprisingly soothing in times of stress, while thrillers are a very reliable form of self-distraction. Drama can be used to borrow others' emotions when one's own are unavailable, though injudicious choice of subject can backfire drastically. I would recommend avoiding historical fiction as it is rife with inaccuracies, and adventure stories tend to lack impact for one who has lived a missing-nin lifestyle—which is not to deny their virtues purely as a form of escapism. And of course, speculative fiction is the hidden Kage of the genre."
"Speculative fiction?"
Akane thought she knew what the term meant. She suddenly found herself wondering if she was wrong. Very, very wrong.
Keiko's eyes lit up.
"Supernatural and otherworldly encounters. Imaginary advanced technology in utopian or dystopian futures. Myths and legends come to life. A relatively new art form that challenges the limits of existing literature, deconstructing staid romantic tropes and tapping into the raw depths of the female psyche to stimulate the imagination from extraordinary new angles."
Akane had a feeling that Tenten might explode if forced to go from zero to tapping into the raw depths of the female psyche.
"Do you have anything… simpler? Maybe an ordinary love story that shows healthy romantic relationships between reasonable people?"
Keiko stared at her as if she'd grown a second head. "In popular fiction?"
"Anything?" Akane asked plaintively. "You're the only one I can count on for this, Keiko."
This wasn't technically true—Sakura was also a self-confessed fan of ladies' erotica—but the whole point of the exercise was to give Tenten an idea of what Keiko considered normal and healthy romance.
Was she meddling? She was totally meddling. But knowing those two, there was no way they were going to sit down and have a mature conversation about expectations any time soon. Getting them on the same page in terms of cultural assumptions was about as much as Akane could do right now without openly interfering.
"Healthy romantic relationships between reasonable people," Keiko repeated. "Is this about Hazō?"
Akane felt a flicker of annoyance. "Not everything in my life is about Hazō."
"Apologies," Keiko said. "Such lack of tact is but one of the many reasons why you should not rely on me in romantic matters."
If she was honest, Akane had never even considered it.
Not that she had any romantic matters to seek help with anymore.
"You have presented me with a worthy challenge," Keiko said. "I shall see what I can locate for you. Expect a pangolin messenger sometime tomorrow morning."
"A pangolin messenger?" Akane asked. "Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but wouldn't it be more discreet if you brought it over yourself?"
"I have important business tomorrow morning which, knowing my life, cannot brook delay. Fear not. I shall tell Pandā that it is a secret mission only he can be trusted with. He will not look at the contents of the package, nor allow another to do so. As an additional benefit, being visibly in communication with the Pangolin Summoner can only enhance your social standing."
So about that lack of tact…
"Thank you, Keiko," Akane said, already envisioning the worst-case scenario of having to explain to her parents why a talking armoured insectivore was bringing adult fiction to her in her home. "I knew I could count on you."
"I cannot imagine why," Keiko said. "I must remind you that I have no personal knowledge of such matters, and that to insinuate otherwise, before myself or others, would be a grave insult best answered with a pangolin from the upper reaches of the atmosphere."
"Wouldn't dream of it," Akane said.
She hesitated.
"Actually, can you throw in a little of this speculative fiction? Only for a friend, of course."
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
SNRK
Keiko is a Sci-fi/Fantasy nerd.
HIVEMIND: One of us, one of us!
Edit:
I mean: Oh noes! Velorien has updated with a bonus chapter O_O
*halfhearted screaming in Kagome*
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- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Poor, poor Akane. You may have left the romantic matters behind, but the romantic matters have not left you behind.
- Location
- Europe
Akane: My own romantic life is making me sad, confusing and a failure. I must meddle in other people's relationships for their own good!
Akane is truly Hazou's and Mari's student.
Akane is truly Hazou's and Mari's student.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Blame Jiraiya.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
In canon/fanon, all of Jiraiya's works were really just encoded messages to his spy network. Hand people a string of page numbers and line numbers for orders (or prearrange that they always get a certain page number/line numbers of a work to get their orders from even).
Really (and if thats still the case) you could probably severely hamper his spy network just by murdering the shit out of everyone with a decently large fiction/porn collection.
Edit: Well, I guess technically you can only say there is one instance of Jiraiya doing this. OTOH, why would he have the page and line numbers of one of his works memorized, and one that conveniently gives a secret tactical message back to Leaf, if he wasn't in the habit of doing this and also had a regular use for it?
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So, let's enlarge the book market in Mist for starter.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Do you have a reference for this? I could have sworn that that was fanon. I mean, we're talking a spymaster who walks into Rain looking like himself.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Well, I guess technically you can only say there is one instance of Jiraiya doing this. OTOH, why would he have the page and line numbers of one of his works memorized, and one that conveniently gives a secret tactical message back to Leaf, if he wasn't in the habit of doing this and also had a regular use for it?
"The real one is not among them."
That's like, way too precise to be able to do off the top of your head, if you don't already make a practice of doing this sort of thing. Y'know, especially while you are dying.
Like, Jiraiya, but at the same time do you guys know what individual numbered lines of chapters say off the top of your head?
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Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
Huh. My vote was intended mostly as a protest vote. I didn't anticipate it would get any votes, much less spread memetically.
*scribbles notes to remind self to take daily anti-memetics*
Could I lobby for "One level of indirection is okay, when used reasonably" instead? Otherwise you rule out (or make more difficult) plans like "do other well-reasoned and detailed plan, but make a different choice at the key juncture."
Even if plans like that don't tend win or aren't desired (no bonus, negative bonus?), I think they're useful if for no other reason than they provide a coordination mechanism making it easier to rally around an idea ("oh, three other people want to do that too", or "I didn't previously take this idea seriously, but now that it has seven votes I kinda have to").
Also, in practice, if they're allowed but discouraged, this is going to result in plans of this nature getting unrolled and tidied up before the deadline.
Beware second order effects of banning things!
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The issue is "to what extent does canon support this interpretation?" vs "how likely is it that Kishimoto just made this up on the spot because it was cool?" Because you know he would.Well, I guess technically you can only say there is one instance of Jiraiya doing this. OTOH, why would he have the page and line numbers of one of his works memorized, and one that conveniently gives a secret tactical message back to Leaf, if he wasn't in the habit of doing this and also had a regular use for it?
After looking up in Icha Icha Tactics and doing some guesswork this translates to
"The real one is not among them."
That's like, way too precise to be able to do off the top of your head, if you don't already make a practice of doing this sort of thing. Y'know, especially while you are dying.
Like, Jiraiya, but at the same time do you guys know what individual numbered lines of chapters say off the top of your head?
To what extent is this also the result of editorial meddling ass opposed to workaholic manga artist making shit up every week? (To be fair, that's what you guys do too, but at least you share it with two other dudes)
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I mean, you're correct that he likely just made it up.
Personally? This is a neat bit of fanon that IMO explains away some of the inherent wackyness of the setting.
I think after a certain point Kishimoto's editors just started mailing it in?
Like, at the point we're talking about, they probably just read through it every week and said "Yeah, looks cool."