My sense is that it's OK to do this? We already looted a Wakahisa barrel, and in war, you loot your enemies.

This isn't a war. That is a good thing, and we don't want to make the exam more like a war, that ultimately serves noone.

As for the barrel, I'm in favor of returning it during the break. The only reason it's acceptable for us to take it is that we can actually use the chakra, and we have Noburi's barrel anyway, so there's no opsec breach. If some other team tried to do this, there'd absolutely be hell to pay. Clan secrets are serious business.
 
This isn't a war. That is a good thing, and we don't want to make the exam more like a war, that ultimately serves noone.

As for the barrel, I'm in favor of returning it during the break. The only reason it's acceptable for us to take it is that we can actually use the chakra, and we have Noburi's barrel anyway, so there's no opsec breach. If some other team tried to do this, there'd absolutely be hell to pay. Clan secrets are serious business.
Uh, we can still use their chakra during the next round...?
 
Uh, we can still use their chakra during the next round...?

Do we have confirmation this is how it works? Intuitively, it seems strange that stealing a Wakahisa's barrel makes it impossible for them to store chakra in a replacement one. I'd have expected the chakra to start leaking some distance away from the owner's body.
 
Do we have confirmation this is how it works? Intuitively, it seems strange that stealing a Wakahisa's barrel makes it impossible for them to store chakra in a replacement one. I'd have expected the chakra to start leaking some distance away from the owner's body.
Yes? The rules explicitly say so.
 
Briefly hijacking discussion to talk about one of my favourite things: character development.

I love writing it, and reading it, and figuring out new ways that it can be written. And right now, we have an excellent opportunity to create some.

Over the break, I'd like for Hazou to make a real effort to bond with the rest of the clan, do nice things for them just for the sake of making them happy, and try to learn how to dial back the whole "seeing everyone as tools" thing so that he doesn't hurt the rest of the people close to him the way he hurt Akane.

Even if nothing comes of it because he fails to reconcile "people are people first and assets distant second" with "be an effective team leader", I would still like to read those chapters.

Also, presumably Jiraiya has dealt with this problem, so maybe he could ask him for advice? That would be a nice scene.​
 
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Oh holy crap. I was just looking over the character sheets a bit and I had no idea Noburi's Vampiric Dew was so high. He's got 39. He could drain Hazou in two turns.
 
My overall feeling is that we should be very careful about going against the rules of exam propriety. We don't want to establish an adversarial relationship with the other candidates beyond what the events require. Our heel cutting is already a bit borderline, given that it's an injury inflicted upon an unconscious, defeated enemy, though the fact that exam rules encourage this behaviour absolves us somewhat. Stealing gear or copying seals, I think, crosses this line. An explosive seal is nothing to us, but may be a valuable possession for a clanless ninja without major backing, and they'd definitely resent us for taking it; not to mention the reputational hit of being seen as petty thieves.

I broadly agree agree, but the exam is zero-sum, so when you say that we don't want to establish an adversarial relationship "beyond what the event requires", I'm vacuously on board, because the zero-sum nature of the event requires us to screw over the competition as much as much as we can get away with.

I'm in full agreement that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja probably is far more meaningful to them than it is us, but put another way, this means that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja should be disproportionately effective at impairing them. Combine this with not wanting to establish adversarial relationships and not wanting to come off as petty thieves and the solution seems to be we loot the seals and return them, plus some extras, after the event. If we didn't chip in extra seals, then we're still screwing them over for nothing, but chipping in an extra [Graham's number] seals would be better for them than winning the event, especially because explosive seals are so much harder for them to come by. Thus, in principle, somewhere between 0 and Graham's number, there should be a number of seals that allows us to foster a nonadversarial (cooperative, even) relationship while still achieving our goal of coming out ahead in a zero-sum event (and not coming off as petty thieves).

Over the break, I'd like for Hazou to make a real effort to bond with the rest of the clan, do nice things for them just for the sake of making them happy

Excellent suggestion---this will make them much more effective tools! :p
 
I broadly agree agree, but the exam is zero-sum, so when you say that we don't want to establish an adversarial relationship "beyond what the event requires", I'm vacuously on board, because the zero-sum nature of the event requires us to screw over the competition as much as much as we can get away with.

I'm in full agreement that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja probably is far more meaningful to them than it is us, but put another way, this means that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja should be disproportionately effective at impairing them. Combine this with not wanting to establish adversarial relationships and not wanting to come off as petty thieves and the solution seems to be we loot the seals and return them, plus some extras, after the event. If we didn't chip in extra seals, then we're still screwing them over for nothing, but chipping in an extra [Graham's number] seals would be better for them than winning the event, especially because explosive seals are so much harder for them to come by. Thus, in principle, somewhere between 0 and Graham's number, there should be a number of seals that allows us to foster a nonadversarial (cooperative, even) relationship while still achieving our goal of coming out ahead in a zero-sum event (and not coming off as petty thieves).
We could use some excuse like "I lost the sheet I wrote down what all seals we got from which people on, but I remember which people had seals, have [some extra number of seals]" so they don't feel prideful about getting extras from us.
 
Breifly hijacking discussion to talk about one of my favourite things: character development.

I love writing it, and reading it, and figuring out new ways that it can be written. And right now, we have an excellent opportunity to create some.

Over the break, I'd like for Hazou to make a real effort to bond with the rest of the clan, do nice things for them just for the sake of making them happy, and try to learn how to dial back the whole "seeing everyone as tools" thing so that he doesn't hurt the rest of the people close to him the way he hurt Akane.

Even if nothing comes of it because he fails to reconcile "people are people first and assets distant second" with "be an effective team leader", I would still like to read those chapters.

Also, presumably Jiraiya has dealt with this problem, so maybe he could ask him for advice? That would be a nice scene.​

Actually, after this event is over, I want to let Hazou just relax and do whatever he feels like for an update or two. Just do things he actually wants to do rather than what is useful or productive. Hang out with people whose company he enjoys. Spend some time with Hana without any expectation of getting anything out of it.

Enjoy life for a bit outside of the treadmill of our goals and expectations.
 
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Actually, after this event is over, I want to let Hazou just relax and do whatever he feels like for an update or two. Just do things he actually wants to do rather than what is useful or productive. Hang out with people whose company he enjoys. Spend some time with Hana without any expectation of getting anything out of it.

Enjoy life for a bit outside of the treadmill of our goals and expectations.
Sorry, he needs to spend 48 hours writing 5SBs.
 
Sorry, he needs to spend 48 hours writing 5SBs.

Seriously though, after we finish the seals and stuff, we should go spend a day with Hana. We've had our joyous reunion but have barely had more than a conversation with her. We can hang out, tell her (OPSEC-safe) stories from our journeys, show her our Taijutsu and Roki, hear what else happened in Mist while we were away.
 
Kagome, the paranoid sealmaster he is, will save the day, by making sure Jiraiya got the 5SB seals for those pangolin stinkers.

He might, but until we have the seals in Keiko's hands we have to assume otherwise and be drawing them ourselves. I will not accept ruining our alliance with the Pangolins because Hazou made a bad assumption he really didn't have to.
 
Can we have Jiraiya get a message back to Leaf(through the 7th Path or otherwise) asking Kagome to start emergency production on some 5SB for the Pangolins? This is something I think he would gladly do.
 
Can we have Jiraiya get a message back to Leaf(through the 7th Path or otherwise) asking Kagome to start emergency production on some 5SB for the Pangolins? This is something I think he would gladly do.

All of the Leaf summoners that we are aware of are here in Mist, and even a high-speed courier would take days for a round trip - fast enough that we could get a sizable infusion of seals before the deadline, but not fast enough that we could get them before the deadline enough to relieve Hazou's burdens.

Of course, some of us here think Leaf has more summoners that we've never heard about, but I doubt it.
 
Nope.

Suppose we wanted all the moves his right arm had recorded. We would remove the nerves in our right arm, carefully peel out the nerves in his right arm, and place it in our right arm. Be sure match all the nerve endings.

We would the lose all the movements we had recorded in our right arm.

This is more dangerous, more painful, and less useful than the eternal mangyeko Sharingan

Just for the record, in canon, pulling ones Mangekyous out and replacing them with someone else's gives you access to both the eye techniques from your old eyes and the ones from your new eyes.

It seems like your techniques get saved to your brain, and then downloaded into your new eyes to be used.

So by analogy, we would keep all of our muscle memories, and they would get downloaded into Shin's nervous system after the transplant, in addition to having access to any that he had stored.

If such a transplant were even remotely possible.
 
All of the Leaf summoners that we are aware of are here in Mist, and even a high-speed courier would take days for a round trip - fast enough that we could get a sizable infusion of seals before the deadline, but not fast enough that we could get them before the deadline enough to relieve Hazou's burdens.

Of course, some of us here think Leaf has more summoners that we've never heard about, but I doubt it.
I think it takes 1-2 days to travel from Mist to Leaf, IIRC? Even if Kagome can only get ~30 5SB sets done in that time frame, its a significant help.

But if we arent leaving Mist immediately that might not work then, especially if theres no summoner to transport the seals into the 7th path to get to Jiraiya.

We could ask Uncle Kagome to please assist us in making the 5SB sets for the next month? If he gets them done in the week or so before we return to Leaf (if at all) then we wont have to spend time during the training break making any.
 
Honestly, I kind of expect Kagome to have been tasked with producing the 5SBs because it makes zero sense to burden Hazou, whose time will be taken up by the stressful and important exam, with it. Especially if he ends up having to scribe blanks for 50 hours without stopping. What if there was another event after this one? I expect Jiraiya to have planned for this before we left Leaf.

I broadly agree agree, but the exam is zero-sum, so when you say that we don't want to establish an adversarial relationship "beyond what the event requires", I'm vacuously on board, because the zero-sum nature of the event requires us to screw over the competition as much as much as we can get away with.

I'm in full agreement that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja probably is far more meaningful to them than it is us, but put another way, this means that taking an explosive seal from a clanless ninja should be disproportionately effective at impairing them. Combine this with not wanting to establish adversarial relationships and not wanting to come off as petty thieves and the solution seems to be we loot the seals and return them, plus some extras, after the event. If we didn't chip in extra seals, then we're still screwing them over for nothing, but chipping in an extra [Graham's number] seals would be better for them than winning the event, especially because explosive seals are so much harder for them to come by. Thus, in principle, somewhere between 0 and Graham's number, there should be a number of seals that allows us to foster a nonadversarial (cooperative, even) relationship while still achieving our goal of coming out ahead in a zero-sum event (and not coming off as petty thieves).

I disagree. Human relationships are more than just exchanges of value. Tone matters a lot. You feel differently about someone who stole your prized possessions with premeditation, even if they later gave them back and reimbursed you for the trouble.

It'd be one thing if stealing the seals gave us some kind of major advantage, but it really doesn't.
 
I feel like Jiraiya should be getting missives from couriers every few days. It may be in the diplomatic pouches. If Kagome did work like a week earlier, it might be included in there if we don't have a summoner network.
 
It'd be one thing if stealing the seals gave us some kind of major advantage, but it really doesn't.
It kind of does, though. Not getting blown up or having our defenses blown up is a pretty big advantage. If we take all their explosive seals then they have to use chakra to do that.
 
I think it takes 1-2 days to travel from Mist to Leaf, IIRC? Even if Kagome can only get ~30 5SB sets done in that time frame, its a significant help.

But if we arent leaving Mist immediately that might not work then, especially if theres no summoner to transport the seals into the 7th path to get to Jiraiya.

We could ask Uncle Kagome to please assist us in making the 5SB sets for the next month? If he gets them done in the week or so before we return to Leaf (if at all) then we wont have to spend time during the training break making any.
It took us two days, I'm pretty sure, to get from Leaf to Mist for the exams. I'm assuming that a more speed-focused courier could make the trip in a day, but that means two days of travel time when we have three days before the deadline, so we'd get at best one day of sealing work out of Kagome and we wouldn't know if we'd be getting it for sure until time was already up.

Honestly, I kind of expect Kagome to have been tasked with producing the 5SBs because it makes zero sense to burden Hazou, whose time will be taken up by the stressful and important exam, with it. Especially if he ends up having to scribe blanks for 50 hours without stopping. What if there was another event after this one? I expect Jiraiya to have planned for this before we left Leaf.
That's the other side of it, yeah, Jiraiya could already be on top of the situation, and we should ask him before we commit to our work. That said, if he doesn't have things prepared for us, we need to assume that it's all on us because we don't have any way to lessen Haozu's workload (that is, be sufficiently confident that we will in fact receive the remaining seals needed before the deadline) without taking a risk, and since the penalty for failure is ruining our relationship with the Pangolins we can't afford to gamble.
 
It took us two days, I'm pretty sure, to get from Leaf to Mist for the exams. I'm assuming that a more speed-focused courier could make the trip in a day, but that means two days of travel time when we have three days before the deadline, so we'd get at best one day of sealing work out of Kagome and we wouldn't know if we'd be getting it for sure until time was already up.


That's the other side of it, yeah, Jiraiya could already be on top of the situation, and we should ask him before we commit to our work. That said, if he doesn't have things prepared for us, we need to assume that it's all on us because we don't have any way to lessen Haozu's workload (that is, be sufficiently confident that we will in fact receive the remaining seals needed before the deadline) without taking a risk, and since the penalty for failure is ruining our relationship with the Pangolins we can't afford to gamble.
I'm not sure we were moving at ninja speed -- even genin ninja speed -- when moving between Mist and Leaf.
 
Actually, after this event is over, I want to let Hazou just relax and do whatever he feels like for an update or two. Just do things he actually wants to do rather than what is useful or productive. Hang out with people whose company he enjoys. Spend some time with Hana without any expectation of getting anything out of it.

Enjoy life for a bit outside of the treadmill of our goals and expectations.
Once we finish the pangolin order.
 
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